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C4 Scalping

  • #7,241
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:00pm Aug 19, 2009 3:00pm
Quoting wannaberich
first i would like to thanks PaulW for being such a healthy competitor (but you have no chance, man; i am a far bigger a**hole than you )

in second place, frankenpip, life is already very hard for me mastering this system. if other people have success with it i can too! besides i am one of those guys that beleive that no system is going to give you perfect signals that you can follow without discernement. if i were to follow always the next signal that would imply that i can follow them all i that is for sure not true. that would also imply...
Hey wannaberich,

Invest 10000$ ??? What a Bullshit... !!!
Use your Brain, your Instinkts and your emotional recources, invest 100$ and make a 1.000.000$. It takes approximately 4-5 years!
Believe it or not...
Remember Edge: LESS IS MORE !!!

Regards
  • #7,242
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:01pm Aug 19, 2009 3:01pm
Chris,
I saw this odd behavior a little while ago. An arrow anchored for both directions? i am not sure if this is a bug or not but I would think so. Funny enough both signals would have gone for +5.
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  • #7,243
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:06pm Aug 19, 2009 3:06pm
Yes FrankenPip, this whole velocity/acceleration/momentum thing is confusing because what is meant by these terms in finance is different to what is meant in the world of science. The 'Momentum' indicator is really velocity in the scientific sense. The easiest way to think of momentum is to use the train analogy that Edge and you have used. What determines the momentum of a train? Well, the speed it is moving at (pips per second), the direction in which it is moving (north or south), and the mass of the train (the number of passengers on the train = volume). It is calculating the mass/volume behind a move that is most problematic for us. I think Edge's Nitro setup gets over the problem by watching four pairs. Rather than using an indicator to calculate the mass behind a move we can just see it when all four pairs are moving in unison. Couple this with high velocity (shown by the 'momentum' indicator) and we have momentum staring us in the face, which is what Edge has been trying to tell us all along.
regards,
Matthew
Quoting FrankenPip
Hi rorieu:

P = M*V where P = Momentum.

P = V when M = 1.

To me, equating velocity with momentum is inaccurate.

Nevermind, because we do not need any of this to make money trading.
  • #7,244
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:17pm Aug 19, 2009 3:17pm
Dear Toledo,

i can give you my word if i had the faith that i could live out of those 10k€ i would invest them (sure had to check with my wife, but i am pretty sure she wouldn't opose).

the problem here is being able too. i am far from being able to produce 20 pips per day, steadly and constantly. if i could with an extremly degree of certainty i would put the money into an account and trade 2.5 lots. if i could that would mean 500$ a day. 10k$ a month. i would be rich, in my point of view.

the growth in 4 to 5 years? i don't think that long. 6 months or 1 year, at the most. life is like the trend of the market. always changing.

i think i am exagerated when i think i can make 5000$ out of 10 000€ and you believe you can make 10 000 out of 100!!! i truthfully hope you can, but don't believe it. maybe not enough faith... maybe that's my problem.

best of luck to you all
dreams do come true.
  • #7,245
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:17pm Aug 19, 2009 3:17pm
Quoting rorieu
Hey Franken

I'm not equating them, just pointing out that price change has nothing to do with 'momentum' it's just 'speed' which shows as slope on the charts and slope is what we live for!

It's just the way the finance world uses the term 'momentum'

I'm very familiar with 'real' momentum in the enginering world.
Hi rorieu:

OK, got it.
If you only trade long, then you can't always be wrong.
  • #7,246
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:24pm Aug 19, 2009 3:24pm
Quoting Toledo
Hi Franky,

I think, you misunderstood...
Not my feeling are relevant! The "Tryings" I posted, give you the opportunity to "understand" the movings of the market and the opportunity to "use" this emotional determined movings to make some money !!!
HI Toledo:

That's another myth. There is nothing to understand.

See price.

See price move.

See price move up or down.

If price is not making new highs/lows then price is retracing.

Everything else about trading is an ILLUSION that is perpetuated by traders, teachers, gurus, vendors, authors, etc...

No one knows what will happen next in the market. There is no magic system, indicator, method, time frame, chart type, etc...

If you do not understand this, the rat will beat you.
If you only trade long, then you can't always be wrong.
  • #7,247
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:39pm Aug 19, 2009 3:39pm
Quoting wannaberich
in second place, frankenpip, life is already very hard for me mastering this system. if other people have success with it i can too! besides i am one of those guys that beleive that no system is going to give you perfect signals that you can follow without discernement. if i were to follow always the next signal that would imply that i can follow them all i that is for sure not true. that would also imply that all we would need would be an EA for that perfect system. who am i to say what is true or not about forex...
Hi wannaberich:

That is the reason the rat wins. The signal you do not take may the signal that generates the big win. Traders do not realize the potential of Forex trading. The next tick could be the start of a 500+ pip run. I have demonstrated how to win by always trading in one direction (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=188248). It is simple. No "for sale" indicators or other fancy indicators are needed.

You must design and/or define your entry signals so the entry is systematic. Yes, an EA can do it but the system has to be designed properly. The most crucial part of trading is quiting while ahead, a lesson lost on most. How many times have you heard the story, "I was up X pips, but gave them all back and them some"?

In the beginning, Edgetrader created a simple C4 Scalper system. The signal was clear: primer, charge, detonator - push the plunger, take your 5 pips or get stopped out. That is all that is needed. Nothing else. Take the signal without hesitation. There is nothing to think about. With proper risk and money management, you should achieve the daily goal of 2%. Will you win every trade? No, of course not. That's not the goal. The goal is 2% gain.
If you only trade long, then you can't always be wrong.
  • #7,248
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:41pm Aug 19, 2009 3:41pm
Quoting FrankenPip
momentum (pl. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plural) momenta; SI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI) unit kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram)·m/s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meters_per_second), or, equivalently, N (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton)·s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second)) is the product of the mass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass) and velocity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity) of an object...
Hi Frankenpip

Not in forex.

"Momentum measures the velocity of a price move. It is a ge­neric term. Just as the word "fruit" encompasses apples,oranges, grapes, bananas, and so forth. Momentum embraces a host of individual indicators such as rate-of-change (ROC), relative strength indicator (RSI), moving average convergence divergence (MACD)), and stochastics. Each indicator has different attributes, but the principles for interpretation apply to all of them." from "Martin Pring On Momentum"
  • #7,249
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:48pm Aug 19, 2009 3:48pm
do you mean i should take all signals c4 gives me? against trend, whatever trend, no decision whatsoever just get in there???

that's great news for me. it's exactly what i want to do. no fighting my self anymore!

do you get into every signal C4 gives you? with overall positve results?

mmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!

if you tell me so i will start tomorrow at 11h00 gmt!
dreams do come true.
  • #7,250
  • Edited 4:04pm Aug 19, 2009 3:49pm | Edited 4:04pm
Quoting parky87
Yes FrankenPip, this whole velocity/acceleration/momentum thing is confusing because what is meant by these terms in finance is different to what is meant in the world of science....
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HI parky87:

I understand, thanks.

Some forex traders forget or do not understand that currency is being EXCHANGED when you make a trade. When you buy EURJPY, you are buying EUROs and selling YEN. Watching four pairs that have the same quote currency shows the relative strength/weakness of those base currencies versus the quote currency. When the YEN is weakening, the other currencies are getting stronger relative to the YEN. In essence, you are watching relative strength not momentum. This may seem to be a subtle difference, but it's crucially important to know.

What works even better is when you see how both the base currency and quote currencies are doing for the pair you are trading.
If you only trade long, then you can't always be wrong.
  • #7,251
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:51pm Aug 19, 2009 3:51pm
Quoting nsteve
Hi Frankenpip

Not in forex.

"Momentum measures the velocity of a price move. It is a geScamneric term. Just as the word "fruit" encompasses apples,oranges, grapes, bananas, and so forth. Momentum embraces a host of individual indicators such as rate-of-change (ROC), relative strength indicator (RSI), moving average convergence divergence (MACD)), and stochastics. Each indicator has different attributes, [font=Arial]but the principles...
Hi nsteve:

It should be called VELOCITY not momentum. A rose is still a rose...
If you only trade long, then you can't always be wrong.
  • #7,252
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:55pm Aug 19, 2009 3:55pm
Quoting wannaberich
do you mean i should take all signals c4 gives me? against trend, whatever trend, no decision whatsoever just get in there???

that's great news for me. it's exactly what i want to do. no fighting my self anymore!

do you get into every signal C4 gives you? with overall positve results?

mmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!

if you tell me so i will start tomorrow at 11h00 gmt!
HI wannaberich:

If trend is a filter, then apply it because that is part of the signal process.

The best way to find out is to try it on a demo account. Take the next 20 trades without hesitation. Stop before 20 if you reach the goal. Quit if you hit the daily loss limit.
If you only trade long, then you can't always be wrong.
  • #7,253
  • Aug 19, 2009 3:59pm Aug 19, 2009 3:59pm
Quoting deano1292
Watched the PA and the trend line break with a confirmation .. boom 5 pips
Ive been looking at those on the yen crosses and finding many pips on them. Anytime there is a flat spot look for your TL(s) then look for the break
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  • #7,254
  • Aug 19, 2009 4:07pm Aug 19, 2009 4:07pm
Quoting FrankenPip
HI Toledo:

That's another myth. There is nothing to understand.

See price.

See price move.

See price move up or down.

If price is not making new highs/lows then price is retracing.

Everything else about trading is an ILLUSION that is perpetuated by traders, teachers, gurus, vendors, authors, etc...

No one knows what will happen next in the market. There is no magic system, indicator, method, time frame, chart type, etc...

If you do not understand this, the rat will beat you.
Speaking of illusions,

Let's look at another industry as our fitness function. Oil refining, specifically the 'oil cracking' process .

This industry uses a simple deviation method as a fail-safe for managing the risk associated with heat transfer and refining to a pre-set ratio.
Say the crack spread on 'Chicago' is 3:2:1 and to get the desired output, we would run our boiler and measure heat transfer 'momentum'.The oil refining industry simply look for signs of 'jumping'.
If and when we have prolonged 'jump' in heat transfer 'momentum' than we simply shutdown the boiler.
Now all we have to do is figure out whether this momentum 'jump' is a good thing or bad;and have time to react.
  • #7,255
  • Aug 19, 2009 4:18pm Aug 19, 2009 4:18pm
Quoting wannaberich
. . .
i would love to invest my 10 000€ i have set aside and earn 5000$ per month trading. but to do that based on "gut" and feelings... i have a house to pay and 2 beatifull daughters to feed. sure i would love to quit my job where our continusly good results are never apreciated. sure i would love to have a degree of freedom that i never had before. but all this based on "gut"? kind of scares me . . .
Wannabe - I am in the same boat.

I have been working on testing the Nitro system for quite some time. Have spent countless hours testing, retesting and trying new things.

The best I can get the system to do is 75% win ratio. I truly don't see how this is going to get to over 90%. I've tried everything I can think of.

Granted, I have been applying the concepts of this thread and have had 8 trading days in a row with profit, but as wannabe points out, I have been using a lot of "gut" to make that happen.

I really don't think I am going to be able to pull it off with real money. I'm looking forward to the future developments with Nitro, but I have my doubts at this point.

Doc
  • #7,256
  • Edited Aug 20, 2009 12:16am Aug 19, 2009 4:20pm | Edited Aug 20, 2009 12:16am
Hi guys,

was a bit quiet these days as I was meditating and coding.
I don't want to start a competition with Chris (good job mate) neither will I or we find the perfect indicator.
First I was thinkin to get my signals with SMI and filtered through the Trix.
But that would have been away from post#1 and Trix is still the better and safer choice in my opinion.
So I modified my Dashboard in the following way:

* Trade to take at the open of the brick AFTER the arrow!

Arrow when:
* Trix crosses and
* SMI white line above/below red line and
* MA now higher/lower MA previous and
Mom above/below zero

I tried to add the 40/-40 levels to the SMI but that didn't make any difference.

The only way to get better/worse signals is to change the settings of the indi for trix, ma, mom or/and smi.

These are still no perfect signals (there will NEVER be) but I was trading these since 2 days doing fine.

Stop looking for filters to find a perfect entry... you won't find it EVER!
Better use your time and effort to control yourself

You need the IndexedMomentumK.ex2 in your indicator/expert folder for the dashboard to work. No need to have it on your chart!

Have fun!
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 DXTrade Nitro Dashboard.ex4   22 KB | 824 downloads
File Type: ex4 IndexedMomentumK.ex4   5 KB | 693 downloads
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #7,257
  • Aug 19, 2009 4:30pm Aug 19, 2009 4:30pm
And that is how it looks like
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #7,258
  • Aug 19, 2009 5:15pm Aug 19, 2009 5:15pm
Quoting DXTrade
And that is how it looks like
Hi all,
This is my first post here, but I´m use and following this thread. I have been some difficult with english, but i´m trying to understand.
I´m Only testing C4scalping and not Nitro yet. Because I don´t know (andcan´t findin my research on the thred) how and where I can buy RENKOchart.
I´m having good and bad days with c4 scalping but I guess bad day isonly formy inexperience in Forex andmaybe some tips who I can´t understand because my bad english.

Dx trade,
Can you tell me if I have to upgrade the old DX indicator (on post #1) to this new indicator?

Please guys sorry for my poor english.
And thanks for edge and all guys for this strategy
thanks a lot
  • #7,259
  • Aug 19, 2009 6:17pm Aug 19, 2009 6:17pm
Quoting parky87
Hi Edge, I've been thinking about this re-entry topic a bit. I noticed in the screenshot preview of your nitro ea that on a few occasions it took two longs or two shorts in a row i.e. re-entered. This also means that it couldn't have been using a trix or momentum cross of the zero level as an entry signal (at least not in every case), because that kind of signal would create a long-short-long-short trading sequence. I presume then that the nitro system you trade manually is different from the system coded into the ea?
Regards,
Matthew
I noticed that too. Can you elaborate Edge?
How do you make a small fortune in Forex? Start with a large one!
  • #7,260
  • Aug 19, 2009 6:19pm Aug 19, 2009 6:19pm
Quoting parky87
Hi Edge, I've been thinking about this re-entry topic a bit. I noticed in the screenshot preview of your nitro ea that on a few occasions it took two longs or two shorts in a row i.e. re-entered. This also means that it couldn't have been using a trix or momentum cross of the zero level as an entry signal (at least not in every case), because that kind of signal would create a long-short-long-short trading sequence. I presume then that the nitro system you trade manually is different from the system coded into the ea?
Regards,
Matthew
The trading presented in this thread is simplistic and designed to be long/short in nature to help everyone gain proficiency. This relates to both C4 and Nitro MT4.

As true Nitro was only previewed to the thread, I am going to defer answering any inquiries into its actual setup and operation as related to my own personal trading of such. While I am sure all would like full disclosure on this, that is not in the threads best interest imo. Any inquiries about the ea I use are of course of great interest to some, however, they too are not crucial to individuals becoming proficient in manual trading of a plan. As such, am going to remain very selective in setting forth any further info on this. The thread has already been afforded a golden opportunity with Chris, DXTrade and Jacson101's contributions to MT4 Nitro recently. Those efforts need to continue unabated until a final conclusion can be established.

The trades I post here manually are 100% MT4 in origin, and are always targeted to a one signal/one trade concept mentioned above. That is in the spirit of the threads intent. I am content to continue on that basis.

Regards.
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