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Brokers Scams Who delete you profits

  • #41
  • Aug 18, 2009 5:59am Aug 18, 2009 5:59am
Quoting MaXeY
Avafx Scammers deleted more than 6k from my friend account
My friend trade around the news times

here's what customers service said !

Bakr: and you don't work under our terms and condition
Bakr: and abusing the system
Bakr: bye arbitrager

lol very rude customer services !

They did the same to me. But after several complaints and with the help of FPA, i received all my funds (6 months later).

You can check my complaint on the FPA site.
  • #42
  • Aug 18, 2009 7:02am Aug 18, 2009 7:02am
AVAFX broker is pure scam. Don't be fooled that some people are able to withdraw small sums of money because that's how they catch the bigger fish which is by feeding the small fish. I know several traders who have had their profits deleted by AVA so trade there at your own risk. And some others are still awaiting for their funds after sending withdrawal more than a week ago.
  • #43
  • Edited 12:52pm Aug 20, 2009 12:29pm | Edited 12:52pm
Guys could you advice me please (may be through personal message..) what broker is able to pay at least 100 000 $ ?

up: got some names by PM, thanks
  • #44
  • Aug 26, 2009 10:59pm Aug 26, 2009 10:59pm
They are SCAM!
after i won about 6 k of dollars, when i decide to take them, they deleted all my won position from the history of MT4!!!
i have all the daily confirmations about my winning position that prove i am telling the truth. but they decide to delede all the winning position i have done handly with fews pips of gain in each one!
SCAM!
dont work with them if u take care about ur MONEY!
write me an e mail if u need to see the papers that prove i am saiing the truth!
AVOID WSBrooker!

So SAY WE ALL!
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
  • #45
  • Aug 27, 2009 1:11am Aug 27, 2009 1:11am
Please forward me ur statements at
[email protected]

Quoting timekeeper66
They are SCAM!
after i won about 6 k of dollars, when i decide to take them, they deleted all my won position from the history of MT4!!!
i have all the daily confirmations about my winning position that prove i am telling the truth. but they decide to delede all the winning position i have done handly with fews pips of gain in each one!
SCAM!
dont work with them if u take care about ur MONEY!
write me an e mail if u need to see the papers that prove i am saiing the truth!
AVOID WSBrooker!

So SAY WE ALL!
Charting Markets into the Future...MǎҖ€¥.
  • #46
  • Aug 27, 2009 2:39am Aug 27, 2009 2:39am
Quoting timekeeper66
They are SCAM!
after i won about 6 k of dollars, when i decide to take them, they deleted all my won position from the history of MT4!!!
i have all the daily confirmations about my winning position that prove i am telling the truth. but they decide to delede all the winning position i have done handly with fews pips of gain in each one!
SCAM!
dont work with them if u take care about ur MONEY!
write me an e mail if u need to see the papers that prove i am saiing the truth!
AVOID WSBrooker!

So SAY WE ALL!
Damn. Don't scalp on a Market Maker. Their dealing desk will have fits. Go ECN all the way :/

BTW, if you do scalp on a broker that claims they are an ECN but they delete the profits, report them here. That would mean they are not an ECN but a Market Maker..
  • #47
  • Aug 27, 2009 3:08am Aug 27, 2009 3:08am
Good point. If any br0ker reverses a trade for any reason, then they are a market maker. Make sense ??

Has anyone ever heard of a true ECN reversing a trade because the spike was errant, the price feed was latent, or any other reason at all ??
  • #48
  • Aug 27, 2009 3:43am Aug 27, 2009 3:43am
Quoting price
Good point. If any br0ker reverses a trade for any reason, then they are a market maker. Make sense ??

Has anyone ever heard of a true ECN reversing a trade because the spike was errant, the price feed was latent, or any other reason at all ??

For NFA regulated brokers you've got that the wrong way round!

If a trade is reversed or adjusted due to an erroneous quote then it indicates the broker is an ECN and exclusively operates an STP (straight through processing) model, not that they're a marketmaker.

If you're scalping spikes then an NFA regulated bucket shop is about the best place to do it, once filled they can't reverse the trade, whereas an ECN model can (within 15 minutes).
  • #49
  • Aug 27, 2009 6:08am Aug 27, 2009 6:08am
Quoting pipmutt
If a trade is reversed or adjusted due to an erroneous quote then it indicates the broker is an ECN and exclusively operates an STP (straight through processing) model, not that they're a marketmaker.
Actually, ECN trades are executed based on available liquidity at your price, not on a price feed. If an ECN broker turns around and tell you that a trade is reversed or requoted based on an erroneous quote, then they are lying out of their asses about being an ECN in the first place.

On an ECN, if the liquidity is there, you get filled. If it isn't you get partial filled, or not filled at all.
  • #50
  • Aug 27, 2009 6:16am Aug 27, 2009 6:16am
Quoting oakmonster
Actually, ECN trades are executed based on available liquidity at your price, not on a price feed. If an ECN broker turns around and tell you that a trade is reversed or requoted based on an erroneous quote, then they are lying out of their asses about being an ECN in the first place.

On an ECN, if the liquidity is there, you get filled. If it isn't you get partial filled, or not filled at all.
OK, that's more along the lines of what I was thinking.
  • #51
  • Aug 27, 2009 6:42am Aug 27, 2009 6:42am
Quoting oakmonster
Actually, ECN trades are executed based on available liquidity at your price, not on a price feed. If an ECN broker turns around and tell you that a trade is reversed or requoted based on an erroneous quote, then they are lying out of their asses about being an ECN in the first place.

Nope, you've got it the wrong way round as well!

If it's an NFA regulated broker then it's proof if anything that they operate an STP model, not that they're a marketmaker!

Erroneous quotes (bad ticks) are nothing new or sinister, just 'fat fingers'

Where exactly do you think your brokers quotes come from?
  • #52
  • Aug 27, 2009 6:51am Aug 27, 2009 6:51am
Quoting price
OK, that's more along the lines of what I was thinking.
Then you're on the wrong lines if you're talking about NFA regulated forex brokers.

Have a look at the recent NFA Compliance Rule 2-43(a) if you're in any doubt, then you'll be able to make an educated post based on fact instead of misinformation
  • #53
  • Aug 27, 2009 11:51am Aug 27, 2009 11:51am
Quoting pipmutt
Then you're on the wrong lines if you're talking about NFA regulated forex brokers.

Have a look at the recent NFA Compliance Rule 2-43(a) if you're in any doubt, then you'll be able to make an educated post based on fact instead of misinformation
i didn't read all the rules but i glance at it, if i remember they have 15min to tell you if a trade is bust and must show the trader proof.
  • #54
  • Aug 27, 2009 12:02pm Aug 27, 2009 12:02pm
Quoting traderfx
i didn't read all the rules but i glance at it, if i remember they have 15min to tell you if a trade is bust and must show the trader proof.
Right! 15 mins and they have to provide proof to the trader and to NFA, but it only applies to NFA-regulated exclusive STP model brokers, bucket shops simply can't reverse trades, period (unless it's in the traders favor I believe).

So people who say brokers who reverse trades can't be ECN's have actually got it completely opposite, if the broker reversed a trade it means they do operate an STP model, not they don't.
  • #55
  • Aug 27, 2009 1:15pm Aug 27, 2009 1:15pm
Hi Pipmutt.

Being NFA doesn't make one ECN or even STP. There are still plenty of Market Makers in the NFA.

I think you are also confused about ECN and STP models. STP is still mostly a market maker. This type of broker usually routes smaller orders and losers through the MM part of their system, and only the larger orders and the big winners get sent through to the interbank market. At least some of the time, the STP broker is still trading against you.

ECN is different to STP and MM in that ECN orders are passed directly to counterparties either other traders or financial institutions. You are also not traded against at all. This is direct market access with fills based on the available liquidity, not just on a price feed like the MM or STP models. This means you may only get partially filled or not filled at all at times, but this is real money now

That explains my reasoning behind telling people to scalp or news "trade" on true ECN brokers only. I'm sick of seeing people cry they have been scammed around here even though they damn well should know by now that no Dealing Desk MM or sometimes STP is ever going to 100% accept the way they do things EVER.
  • #56
  • Aug 27, 2009 2:56pm Aug 27, 2009 2:56pm
Quoting oakmonster
Hi Pipmutt.

Being NFA doesn't make one ECN or even STP. There are still plenty of Market Makers in the NFA.

I think you are also confused about ECN and STP models. STP is still mostly a market maker. This type of broker usually routes smaller orders and losers through the MM part of their system, and only the larger orders and the big winners get sent through to the interbank market. At least some of the time, the STP broker is still trading against you.

ECN is different to STP and MM in that ECN orders are passed directly to counterparties...
Hi oakmonster

I doubt if anyone here is on an ECN unless they've got lines of credit and a fairly substantial wad of cash! ECN's are predominantly the domain of institutionals.

The ECN model with STP which some NFA regulated brokers now operate comes within the NFA Compliance Rule 2-43(a) exception, meaning they can adjust trades within a certain time window, under specific conditions, and with supporting paperwork. Although they are counterparty and therefore a potential conflict of interest exists they do not actively trade against their clients. According to the rules an STP broker has to exclusively process orders by STP, I don't believe their can be a mixture.

NFA-regulated bucket shops on the other hand no longer have the option to adjust trades once they are filled, unless (as far as I know) the adjustment is in favor of the client. They operate in a similar way your describe, bucketing some trades and hedging their excess exposure with a liquidity provider above their own set threshhold.

There is a distinct difference, therefore if an NFA-regulated broker's client has a trade adjusted or reversed then he can be sure he's trading with a broker who exclusively uses STP.

I have traded, and aggressively scalped profitably, with a bucket style shop for a number of years and with the exception of maybe a dozen or so reversed trades and the inevitable slippage in a fast market have never had any problems. I was with RefcoFX for a while until they reversed some serious trades across one NFP a few years ago, luckily I left before they folded.

I believe most mainstream brokers, marketmakers, and bucket shops play it reasonably straight nowadays, marketmaking is a competitive business and people tend to walk when they feel badly done by.
  • #57
  • Aug 27, 2009 8:48pm Aug 27, 2009 8:48pm
Quoting JRowaboat
Yes, they probably could do a better job of letting you know spread is going to go up during news events times. But, unfortunately, the broker always explicitly states in your contract that they do not have to close your trade(or fill your order) if there is insufficient liquidity. You have to think of your trade as this: When you are "closing" out a trade, you are actually BUYING another trade against your trade to liquidate(or level out) your positions. So, that means your order must be filled by the bank and if the bank isn't filling orders,...
Agree with Lostinspace here. Sounds like you may not understand how a bucketshop works, or you are just being very charitable in your assesment of them. THEY are the counterparty to virtually every trade, not some "liquidity provider" bank. That would be an interbank ECN.

They are happy to do this since the oft quoted statistic that 95% of traders lose money creates a no brainer for them. If 95 out of 100 traders are going to lose, why not take the opposite side of the trades yourself (as the broker)? You're guaranteed to profit 95% of the time.

Fact is, very few orders every make it outside the walls of the bucketshop broker. It's all "in-house" so to speak. So in some of the cases quoted here, the broker either cancels the trades, or goes out of business...
  • #58
  • Aug 28, 2009 2:20am Aug 28, 2009 2:20am
Quoting TC East
So in some of the cases quoted here, the broker either cancels the trades, or goes out of business...
Hi TC East

Unfortunately for the NFA regulated bucket shops they can't do that any more, if they fill it they're stuck with it!
  • #59
  • Aug 28, 2009 2:46am Aug 28, 2009 2:46am
Quoting TC East
Fact is, very few orders every make it outside the walls of the bucketshop broker. It's all "in-house" so to speak. So in some of the cases quoted here, the broker either cancels the trades, or goes out of business...
In a Bucketshop, not a single order goes to the market. All you get is a price feed. You don't get matched in house or anything. The broker pays out a few winners, but for the most part they are set up to make traders lose.

The next level up is the Market Maker that has a dealing desk to consolidate smaller trades into a large, hedged netting position on the market but no individual orders get sent. This is why the Market Maker will often invalidate a big winner because it might have defeated their dealing desk strategy and made the broker lose.

Quoting pipmutt
Hi oakmonster

I doubt if anyone here is on an ECN unless they've got lines of credit and a fairly substantial wad of cash! ECN's are predominantly the domain of institutionals.
That is simply not so. While you should go ECN with at least $10k since the smallest acceptable interbank volume is $100k (1.00 standard lots), that is hardly institutional

Quoting pipmutt
The ECN model with STP which some NFA regulated brokers now operate comes within the NFA Compliance Rule 2-43(a) exception, meaning they can adjust trades within a certain time window, under specific conditions, and with supporting paperwork
Ok, acccepted that an STP broker can adjust trades because they don't all go through to the interbank. A full ECN however cannot adjust a thing. The trades have gone straight through to the interbank market so the broker cannot manipulate them in any way.

BTW, there are other regulators than just NFA I prefer government regulators myself. I don't really trust a private, commercial organisation such as the NFA to have my best interests at heart.
  • #60
  • Aug 28, 2009 3:20am Aug 28, 2009 3:20am
Quoting oakmonster
In a Bucketshop, not a single order goes to the market. All you get is a price feed. You don't get matched in house or anything. The broker pays out a few winners, but for the most part they are set up to make traders lose.

The next level up is the Market Maker that has a dealing desk to consolidate smaller trades into a large, hedged netting position on the market but no individual orders get sent. This is why the Market Maker will often invalidate a big winner because it might have defeated their dealing desk strategy and made the broker lose....

Ok, lots of misunderstanding there, I really don't know where to start and to be frank I'm not really sure I'm inclined to try!

If it's any help there are few informative websites and books on the subject which might give you a better insight and understanding, or have a chat with a few different types of brokers and dealers, some are more forthcoming than others if you catch them at the right time! (Tip: sales staff and dealers are often better informed than helpdesk automatons!)

Anyway, good trading to you
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