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C4 Scalping

  • #6,841
  • Aug 16, 2009 9:33pm Aug 16, 2009 9:33pm
Quoting azjeff
Nice results. How about a backtest to see how profitable your settings are? Granted backtests are backtests but they do give a indication of what the past results would have been.
It would be interesting to see what your backtests results would be over a 2 year period with 90% model quaility.

Regards,
Jeff
I disagree over the period. Nitro is already tested in and out (remember the preview?) and has been live traded by myself and others quite well.

The folks here need only work on the task at hand for this week. Get those arrows right and we will rapidly move along.

We are here to trade, not test exhaustively. Backtesting for 60-90 days will more than suffice, especially when testing approprite times only.

Regards.
  • #6,842
  • Aug 16, 2009 9:40pm Aug 16, 2009 9:40pm
Quoting fxspeedster
This is the key. If it backtests profitably then follow up with +5 +10 +1000000 profit/trade examples. But just a trade here and there (or even a series of) without being substantiated by a backtest its meaningless. Haven't we tried this before? Seems like DejaVu
The backtesting was provided, verified and still many would not believe it.

You can trade or you can test. Only with one will you make an income though. You have followed long enough to have completed your own backtesting. What did you find?

Regards.
  • #6,843
  • Aug 16, 2009 9:48pm Aug 16, 2009 9:48pm
Quoting scartree
DX
I totally agree. Backtests are only an indication at best certainly not a guarantee of future performance.

Edge - the penny has dropped. I have been studying the correlation between the chosen pairs and there is such a strong bond that once a trade is identified it is highly probable it will occur on the other pairs within a short period of time. B... marvellous! This has been a revelation on top of the simplication of my charts. I am starting to enjoy this process albeit that my eyes are assuming square proportions!! Looking forward to taking...
Once you get real comfortable trading the big picure manually, and can PROVE it, your training ends. I always said there were good ea's available for Nitro. When you do get to that point, all you have to do is hit a button and accept the order the ea recommends of not. A quick glance is all you need. With appropriate TP levels, you do not even need trend. A bit more patience is needed now more than ever.

Was a big weekend. Breakthrough stuff.

You LEARN and you EARN.

Regards.
  • #6,844
  • Aug 16, 2009 10:26pm Aug 16, 2009 10:26pm
Quoting Edgetrader
Once you get real comfortable trading the big picure manually, and can PROVE it, your training ends. I always said there were good ea's available for Nitro. When you do get to that point, all you have to do is hit a button and accept the order the ea recommends of not. A quick glance is all you need. With appropriate TP levels, you do not even need trend. A bit more patience is needed now more than ever.

Was a big weekend. Breakthrough stuff.

You LEARN and you EARN.

Regards.
Edge, thanks again. Getting much better with my trading because of your teachings. I have spent countless hours reading, learning and practicing both with the simulator (C4 only - in the correct time frames) and live on demo account. For the past week i have been concentrating on Nitro and i can see how i am getting more consistent results. Looking forward to this week. I realize these trades are out of the correct time frame, but i am just trying to practice as much as possible. I also made 2 trades based on a single entry and i know you don't approve that. I realized it after i pulled the trigger a second time. Thanks again
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  • #6,845
  • Aug 16, 2009 10:26pm Aug 16, 2009 10:26pm
Quoting Edgetrader
The backtesting was provided, verified and still many would not believe it.

You can trade or you can test. Only with one will you make an income though. You have followed long enough to have completed your own backtesting. What did you find?

Regards.
If anybody can produce a backtest report with even grabbing 1 pip every trade instead of 5 that is slightly profitable and with acceptable SL, this will seal the deal with the skeptics including myself. From my many failed attempts to create such an EA I can say that it will not be possible (Nitro or not) and we should leave this statement up and follow the outcome in time to prove it or disprove it. I am not saying that the EA will not have successful days, weeks and even perhaps months, but it will eventually succumb and drain the account towards zero. As such, I say yes to manual trading for sure.. the EA path is a very difficult road at best.
If it backtests good run it live!
  • #6,846
  • Edited 11:02pm Aug 16, 2009 10:48pm | Edited 11:02pm
I was messing around with Volume Spread Analysis for about year before I got addicted to this thread. Just for fun I threw a volume indy on my Nitro chart, saw some obvious buying volume and ...Kaboom. Any thoughts on volume and momentum? I'm just throwin it out there but doesn't momentum start with volume?
Q
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The Only Constant Is Change!
  • #6,847
  • Aug 16, 2009 11:10pm Aug 16, 2009 11:10pm
Quoting JazzmanQ2
I was messing around with Volume Spread Analysis for about year before I got addicted to this thread. Just for fun I threw a volume indy on my Nitro chart, saw some obvious buying volume and ...Kaboom. Any thoughts on volume and momentum? I'm just throwin it out there but doesn't momentum start with volume?
Q
The only volume problem is that it's not showing the market volume, but only the volume of your broker. Makes it a bit limited!
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #6,848
  • Aug 16, 2009 11:27pm Aug 16, 2009 11:27pm
Edge, DX, Chris, and friends,

Thank you once again for having big brains! As I sat here watching my 4 nitro charts it hit me that this is so much easier than I have been making it. The combo of the correlation and watching the momentum crosses flicked on a switch for me.
Now back to practicing!!

Mike
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  • #6,849
  • Aug 16, 2009 11:37pm Aug 16, 2009 11:37pm
Thanks for a great trading methodology Edge.

But here's the rub. I have been getting good results with C4 and agree that the process is 75% mental and that you need to get a feel for PA. With C4 using M5 charts you can. Finger right on the pulse of the market.

But with Renko that feel for PA just isn't there for me. It lags and I can be on one brick and I'm down 20 pips and have no idea where I am. So I'm depending on a purely mechanical approach relying totally on indicators which kind of defeats the objective of getting a feel for PA. Confused but eager to learn more.
  • #6,850
  • Aug 16, 2009 11:55pm Aug 16, 2009 11:55pm
Quoting SlushFund
But with Renko that feel for PA just isn't there for me. It lags and I can be on one brick and I'm down 20 pips and have no idea where I am. So I'm depending on a purely mechanical approach relying totally on indicators which kind of defeats the objective of getting a feel for PA. Confused but eager to learn more.
Hopefully you are not relying solely on indicators, indicators are only confirmation of PA. Give Renko a chance, I had a slow transition to Renko as well but now it's hard for me to even look at candles. Some traders will prefer candles and C4, My brain seems to really like the geometric visuals of Renko.
Q
The Only Constant Is Change!
  • #6,851
  • Aug 16, 2009 11:57pm Aug 16, 2009 11:57pm
Quoting SlushFund
Thanks for a great trading methodology Edge.

But here's the rub. I have been getting good results with C4 and agree that the process is 75% mental and that you need to get a feel for PA. With C4 using M5 charts you can. Finger right on the pulse of the market.

But with Renko that feel for PA just isn't there for me. It lags and I can be on one brick and I'm down 20 pips and have no idea where I am. So I'm depending on a purely mechanical approach relying totally on indicators which kind of defeats the objective of getting a feel for PA. Confused...
You are right and I bet a lot of Renko traders feel this way. Bottom line is that with Renko when you form or restart MT4 you are relying on faulty M1 data to build your chart. So the chart you see is not a real Renko Tick chart until the new bricks start forming. Even then you have new bricks formed after bricks based on M1 data.. what a mess! If you decide to shut down MT4 for whatever reason, your ticks are not saved and a new M1 based chart is formed instead of your last tick chart you had up. I paid my $30 for Renko! I wish I could use it.. but I decided to use M5 candles instead so I can see how and where I actually am positioned with my trades. To each his/her own I guess..
If it backtests good run it live!
  • #6,852
  • Aug 17, 2009 12:26am Aug 17, 2009 12:26am
Guys,

I can't imagine...
+15 pips within 4 minutes on three pairs...

Regards,

GrZack
  • #6,853
  • Aug 17, 2009 12:37am Aug 17, 2009 12:37am
Quoting fxspeedster
You are right and I bet a lot of Renko traders feel this way....
You are right, if trading with Renko you have to be aware of limitations in the technology. However, size matters, if you lower the brick size, a higher percentage of traders will see app the same as you. Also, a Renko chart is most of the time a better alternative to a 1min candle TF. But Renko will nerver give you the bigger picture as a 1h oder 4h candle TF does.
IMO
/ ... clarifying decisions ... /
  • #6,854
  • Aug 17, 2009 12:53am Aug 17, 2009 12:53am
Quoting JazzmanQ2
Hopefully you are not relying solely on indicators, indicators are only confirmation of PA.
Q
That's my point Jazz. If Renko doesn't give me a feel for PA then what else is there. Last week I had a perfect setup on C4 and quickly took 10 pips on the E/Y based on PA and confirmation from Trix. I trade from the Frankfurt open into the London session. But when I looked at Renko there was no valid signal and by the time it kicked in there was already price exhaustion and the market was consolidating. No way would I have entered at this point. As Edge rightly says, there is no market without momentum.

However I defer to his greater authority on Renko and look forward to his comments.
  • #6,855
  • Aug 17, 2009 12:55am Aug 17, 2009 12:55am
Good night so far, using renko setup on live account. While this system goes for 5 pips, i tend to keep it open for more or until i get a signal to exit. this has worked well for me

45pips on gy
25 on ej
  • #6,856
  • Aug 17, 2009 1:13am Aug 17, 2009 1:13am
Quoting avatarx51
Good night so far, using renko setup on live account. While this system goes for 5 pips, i tend to keep it open for more or until i get a signal to exit. this has worked well for me

45pips on gy
25 on ej
I think your right on the yen pairs but you have to carry a heavier stop to cover these wins so they balance out in the end. Ive nboticed that I have to carry a minimum of 25 pips to cover on EY avg of 35. I think that there is something more inside this thread personally for the carry of more pips. I think that the reason edge looks for the five is because you can get a really high win and risk more for the five. So in essence you can risk 10% to make 5% if you win 95% of the time. I traded against the rules today at the open and made 1.5%, one loser for 5% and one for less than 1. and 6 winners for an avg of 1.3%. Now all of these are still demo and avg over my total equity for percentage. Im still working on obeying the rules but really thinking that his can fill my time when Im not looking for longer term stuff.
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  • #6,857
  • Aug 17, 2009 1:22am Aug 17, 2009 1:22am
Quoting studbiol
Attachment
I have have every indi that DX has published for C-4...but really prefer the arrows over the bombs...no offense DX......I see where DX says it's posted somewhere aroung 403...but have been through it forward and backwards but still don't see it...just the new bomb indi....can you or someone repost this indi for me??....Sorry for being a pest
  • #6,858
  • Aug 17, 2009 2:14am Aug 17, 2009 2:14am
You know guys, this thread is already 458 pages and its been through the whole backtesting, renko doubting stuff over and over. It would be nice if you guys could get together and make your own thread or something.

This is not a welfare ride as Edge said, it takes work. I have been quietly following and practicing everyday and I am now starting to get a feel for PA, very exciting. Obviously you wouldn't expect to pick up a violin and be "the bomb" overnight, would you?
  • #6,859
  • Aug 17, 2009 2:17am Aug 17, 2009 2:17am
Great progress with this system over the last week and good things ahead hopefully.

For me (using Renko), exits when PA turns against me remain a bit of a problem as the PA is not so clear when viewed in a Renko context. What are folks thoughts on Renko exits that go against you?

At the moment I'm uisng a hard 20-pip stop but wonder whether there's a better way to gain an early exit in a negative trade.
  • #6,860
  • Aug 17, 2009 2:23am Aug 17, 2009 2:23am
My First live trades on C4 after London Open

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/q...0809London.png
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