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Forex Mentors - The Best Investment You Can Make?

  • #241
  • Aug 15, 2009 7:35am Aug 15, 2009 7:35am
Quoting coscorp
Precisely - I couldn't have said it better myself BUT this must also apply to those - like you - offering opinions substantiated solely (according to yourself) by reading 1 page of a thread and having no direct contact with the person about whom you are offering said opinion.
Absolutely it does, don't accept anything I say as gospel either! Go and research, question, evaluate, read the first page and look at it objectively, question what is written there until you are satisfied about it's accuracy and wisdom, look past the fluff!

This is actually a valid point in trading too, objective analysis with a negative bias rather than optimism, why shouldn't my trade go wrong rather than why should it go right. That's why analysis before entering a trade is more valid than analysis once you're in it.
  • #242
  • Aug 15, 2009 7:39am Aug 15, 2009 7:39am
Quoting AstonDan
Yes we are, apparantly, but i think there is a wider and more interesting debate to be had regarding mentors, however i think we're now in an ever decreasing circle centred on Wayne Jackson.
Guilt by association is a propaganda technique. PipMutt was indirectly associating Wayne with his "vendors". The technique gives the person an 'out' so they can claim they weren't talking about someone specifically when they actually were. It is a very subtle technique. The context of the posts always had Wayne in the background. Most people picked up on it right away.

It's a round about and cowardly way to attack a person because it is indirect.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #243
  • Aug 15, 2009 7:42am Aug 15, 2009 7:42am
Quoting pipmutt
Absolutely it does, don't accept anything I say as gospel either! Go and research, question, evaluate, read the first page and look at it objectively, question what is written there until you are satisfied about it's accuracy and wisdom, look past the fluff!
Oh no worries there believe me

Quoting pipmutt;2957467This is actually a valid point in trading too, objective analysis with a negative bias rather than optimism, why shouldn't my trade go wrong rather than why should it go right. That's why analysis [I
before[/i] entering a trade is more...

as strange as it may seem - we actually agree on something.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #244
  • Aug 15, 2009 7:54am Aug 15, 2009 7:54am
Quoting coscorp
Oh no worries there believe me
Which is good, so instead of being influenced by the cult and herd phenonomen all you need to do is apply a similar amount of skepticism to page 1 of that thread, you should be able to see things which I suspect you missed before.

Normally it's comforting to be part of the crowd, not so much in trading though
  • #245
  • Aug 15, 2009 8:06am Aug 15, 2009 8:06am
Quoting pipmutt
Which is good, so instead of being influenced by the cult and herd phenonomen all you need to do is apply a similar amount of skepticism to page 1 of that thread, you should be able to see things which I suspect you missed before.

Normally it's comforting to be part of the crowd, not so much in trading though
Believe it or not I'm never influenced by the "cult and herd" phenomenon. I've been part of his group for nearly a year now - not a couple of days - however I'd be happy to know what, in your opinion, I may have missed.

Learning is an ongoing process after all.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #246
  • Aug 15, 2009 8:27am Aug 15, 2009 8:27am
Quoting coscorp
Learning is an ongoing process after all.
I agree, I've been in this game for a while now and it always surprises me how much I don't know, there's always something to learn, I think that's what keeps it interesting.

Not being funny but was 12 minutes really enough time to look at things objectively? I could list some of the points I found but then would that really be helpful?
  • #247
  • Aug 15, 2009 8:33am Aug 15, 2009 8:33am
Quoting pipmutt
Not being funny but was 12 minutes really enough time to look at things objectively? I could list some of the points I found but then would that really be helpful?
Regarding the 12 minutes i'm not sure I follow - whose objectivity are you referring to?Personally I would have a hard time understanding why you've been vocal about the percieved value/expertise Jacko offers if you didn't do so - for the sake of debate if nothing else.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #248
  • Aug 15, 2009 9:07am Aug 15, 2009 9:07am
Quoting coscorp
Regarding the 12 minutes i'm not sure I follow - whose objectivity are you referring to?Personally I would have a hard time understanding why you've been vocal about the percieved value/expertise Jacko offers if you didn't do so - for the sake of debate if nothing else.
The thread title was asking whether a mentor is the best investment one can make. More or less from the first post it turned into blatant promotion for Jacko, something which the OP does regularly for some reason, I can only speculate as to his motives.

When someone is selling or promoting something on a dicussion forum they leave themselves open to scrutiny and criticism, some genuine vendors even welcome it. I had a cursory look to see what all the fuss was about and formed an opinion based on what I read.

When someone is vocal about promoting something I respond proportionately as I think it's important to try and maintain a balance. I tried to keep the discussion non-specific to any particular vendor but that proved harder than I thought, mainly due to some of the replies people were posting.

Whose objectitivity? Well yours, I've already looked at it objectively.

I have to go now so maybe continue this later if you like, or not, your choice
  • #249
  • Aug 15, 2009 9:23am Aug 15, 2009 9:23am
Quoting pipmutt
The thread title was asking whether a mentor is the best investment one can make. More or less from the first post it turned into blatant promotion for Jacko, something which the OP does regularly for some reason, I can only speculate as to his motives.
I'm not even interested in doing that - but there is a possibility it's about giving credit where credit is due....

Quoting pipmutt
When someone is selling or promoting something on a dicussion forum they leave themselves open to scrutiny and criticism, some genuine vendors even welcome it. I had a cursory look to see what all the fuss was about and formed an opinion based on what I read.
Yes they do - and talking about Jacko he invited people to perform independent audits. Fair enough - but again a cursory look...

Quoting pipmutt
When someone is vocal about promoting something I respond proportionately as I think it's important to try and maintain a balance. I tried to keep the discussion non-specific to any particular vendor but that proved harder than I thought, mainly due to some of the replies people were posting.
Balance is good - I'll take your word for it - however it certainly didn't appear that way - and I'm not alone in this interpretation.

Quoting pipmutt
Whose objectitivity? Well yours, I've already looked at it objectively.
Have you? I would think that you would need more elements than a cursory look to make such an assertion (regarding Jacko at least). I still don't understand where the 12 minutes cames from....


Quoting pipmutt
I have to go now so maybe continue this later if you like, or not, your choice
Sure.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #250
  • Aug 15, 2009 12:05pm Aug 15, 2009 12:05pm
Quoting coscorp
Have you? I would think that you would need more elements than a cursory look to make such an assertion

Ok, so I'm quite happy to discuss anything specific but I think this is getting a little bit repetitious and non-productive, we're just covering old ground over and over without getting anywhere.

Cheers!
  • #251
  • Aug 15, 2009 12:16pm Aug 15, 2009 12:16pm
one's objectivity could be a specific argument..

however it's evident that our respective ideas and interpretations on what being objective means differ somewhat....
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #252
  • Aug 15, 2009 12:34pm Aug 15, 2009 12:34pm
Quoting coscorp
one's objectivity could be a specific argument..

however it's evident that our respective ideas and interpretations on what being objective means differ somewhat....
Oh dear......in this context I would say it means "uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices", will that do you?
  • #253
  • Aug 15, 2009 12:50pm Aug 15, 2009 12:50pm
my objectivity is based on information that you - by your own admission - do not possess. No emotions or personal prejudices there.

in your case..I wouldn't be so sure any of the latter is lacking - but I may be mistaken.

Cheers.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #254
  • Aug 15, 2009 1:35pm Aug 15, 2009 1:35pm
Quoting coscorp
my objectivity is based on information that you - by your own admission - do not possess. No emotions or personal prejudices there.

in your case..I wouldn't be so sure any of the latter is lacking - but I may be mistaken.

Cheers.
Ah right now I get it, so instead of looking at this vendor objectively you're looking at anyone (me in this instance) who dares to suggest he might not be the oasis you pinned your hopes on him being, got it! If you can convince yourself that I'm wrong then everything in the coscorp garden is still rosy, the dream survives!

I looked at the information available objectively, it made absolutely no difference to me what the results were, I don't know the guy and I wasn't looking for an oasis. Like I've already said there was ample enough to go on to form an opinion. (remember the geography book author, world is flat.....)

I suppose what you're doing is understandable, I guess it's a human nature. As a comparison there are plenty of people trading this market who find it's less painful to consistently lose rather than accept the harsh reality that all the evidence points towards the fact that they may never make as traders. If they looked at what they're doing objectively it would burst their bubble, their dream of wealth and independence or even earning any sort of income from trading would be shattered so they soldier on regardless because it's the best of two evils.

lol, no wonder all your arguments have been about me instead of specifics, it makes sense now!
  • #255
  • Edited 2:36pm Aug 15, 2009 2:14pm | Edited 2:36pm
Quoting pipmutt
Ah right now I get it, so instead of looking at this vendor objectively you're looking at anyone (me in this instance) who dares to suggest he might not be the oasis you pinned your hopes on him being, got it! If you can convince yourself that I'm wrong then everything in the coscorp garden is still rosy, the dream survives!
I believe I already stated that I did my due diligence (call it professional deformation) before deciding to join his private blog. Again - your suggestion lacks of empirical evidence to support it. You know I pinned my hopes on him? Thanks for letting me know as well as I was totally unaware. It sure sounds as if your dream (whatever it was) got creamed at this point...be strong it'll pass. Incidentally, I have no need to convince myself youre wrong - I've been making a living exclusively from FX for close to a year now....

Quoting pipmutt
I looked at the information available objectively, it made absolutely no difference to me what the results were, I don't know the guy and I wasn't looking for an oasis. Like I've already said there was ample enough to go on to form an opinion. (remember the geography book author, world is flat.....)
By your own admission the "information" you are referring to is the first page of his thread and you don't even know the guy. What?!? The results are not an integral part necessary to form an opinion (and express it on a public forum) on the bonafide and capacities of an individual!?! Interesting....unless of course one couldn't care less about the facts in order to follow a personal agenda....who knows...

Quoting pipmutt
I suppose what you're doing is understandable, I guess it's a human nature. As a comparison there are plenty of people trading this market who find it's less painful to consistently lose rather than accept the harsh reality that they may never make as traders. If they looked at what they're doing objectively it would burst their bubble, their dream of wealth and independence or even earning any sort of income would be shattered so they soldier on regardless because it's the best of two evils.
You wouldn't be referring to yourself in any manner now would you?

Quoting pipmutt
lol, no wonder all your arguments have been about me instead of specifics, it makes sense now!
You're the one letting your "objective" opinions, of a person you don't know, be known to the world based solely on one page that you read.

The specifics? Simply that your "opinion" on Jacko in particular - (and one of LasVahGoose's last posts helps to fully understand how that opinion has been voiced albeit under the thin guise of being indirect) is based on nothing in the end - and all my requests for you to provide solid evidence as to why he isn't who he says he is or hasn't had the results that I've witnessed first hand (and believe me I'm not alone) have not been fulfilled - if not useless ramblings on gardens and what have you.

EDIT: If an opinion were to be formed and voiced in this manner about any other member - I would be asking the same exact questions -and expecting an answer in that case as well.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #256
  • Aug 15, 2009 2:35pm Aug 15, 2009 2:35pm
Quoting coscorp
By your own admission the "information" you are referring to is the first page of his thread and you don't even know the guy. What?!? The results are not an integral part necessary to form an opinion (and express it on a public forum) on the bonafide and capacities of an individual!?!

No I don't know the guy, why would I need to know him in order to reach an objective opinion based on the first page of a thread written by him, everything is there. In fact in order to remain 'uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices' it's better not to know him in order to reach an objective opinion.

Sorry, I have absolutely no idea what this is supposed to mean! "...The results are not an integral part necessary to form an opinion (and express it on a public forum) on the bonafide and capacities of an individual!?!..."

coscorp, thanks for the chat, and I wish you every success in your trading. As there doesn't appear to be any relevant specifics you wish to discuss I think I'll leave you to it.

Cheers, have a nice weekend
  • #257
  • Aug 15, 2009 2:55pm Aug 15, 2009 2:55pm
Quoting pipmutt
No I don't know the guy, why would I need to know him in order to reach an objective opinion based on the first page of a thread written by him, everything is there. In fact in order to remain 'uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices' it's better not to know him in order to reach an objective opinion.
Forming an objective opinion without taking into consideration all the facts - and doing so voluntarily to boot - is a little difficult where I'm from. But l must also remind you how that opinion was voiced

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...&postcount=216

Quoting pipmutt
Sorry, I have absolutely no idea what this is supposed to mean! "...The results are not an integral part necessary to form an opinion (and express it on a public forum) on the bonafide and capacities of an individual!?!..."
Try harder - it may come to you eventually. Consider yourself lucky if a very highly paid lawyer doesn't end up explaining the correlation to you in a court of law where you are being sued for slander amongst other odds and ends.
Quoting pipmutt
coscorp, thanks for the chat, and I wish you every success in your trading. As there doesn't appear to be any relevant specifics you wish to discuss I think I'll leave you to it.

Cheers, have a nice weekend
You're welcome.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #258
  • Aug 15, 2009 3:04pm Aug 15, 2009 3:04pm
Quoting coscorp
Regarding the 12 minutes i'm not sure I follow
He's building a straw man argument.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position

So he makes the straw man that you only spent 12 minutes reading the first page and decided that you were going to join the group. Now he can attack the straw man (only spending 12 minutes) which was never true in the first place. Now he can say, see 12 minutes isn't enough time to for a person to do due diligence. See how that works?

All his posts are misdirection, guilt by associate, fallacies, etc.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #259
  • Aug 15, 2009 3:07pm Aug 15, 2009 3:07pm
Thanks - now that is interesting - as far as I'm concerned it's evident the one that spent no more than the 12 minutes (if that) was himself.

Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #260
  • Aug 15, 2009 3:29pm Aug 15, 2009 3:29pm
Quoting coscorp
Thanks - now that is interesting - as far as I'm concerned it's evident the one that spent no more than the 12 minutes (if that) was himself.
Black is white. Up is Down. Left is Right.

Not sure what all the methods are, but the straw man is used a lot.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
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