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C4 Scalping

  • #6,061
  • Aug 11, 2009 1:49am Aug 11, 2009 1:49am
Quoting beepblip
Hi EdgeTrader,

I am not looking to avoid the work, but an honest opinion of yours.
Do you think the rules are simple enough that an expert advisor could be coded up to execute them? I did search back in the thread and you mentioned that you wouldn't let a robot do demolition. Well, not to disagree, but smart bombs have become pretty popular, no?
I'll give my opinion:

There has been tons of discussion in the thread about how this trading method is "25% Mechanical, 75% Mental (discretionary)".

So the answer is "NO".

It amazes me that there is still discussion about it. And it amazes me even more that Edge doesn't take a firm stance against it when the subject comes up.
  • #6,062
  • Aug 11, 2009 2:05am Aug 11, 2009 2:05am
Quoting beepblip
Hi EdgeTrader,

I am not looking to avoid the work, but an honest opinion of yours.
Do you think the rules are simple enough that an expert advisor could be coded up to execute them? I did search back in the thread and you mentioned that you wouldn't let a robot do demolition. Well, not to disagree, but smart bombs have become pretty popular, no?
Hi,

did you read the whole thread? DXTrade already created an EA, many of us tested that. However as the EA took each and every trade, it started to make LOSS, instead of profit.
There is noting better then the manual trading, because the rules are really simple.

Anyway, one component is still missing (I think), when we can figure out, what is that, than we can create an EA, but now, we have to focus on the manual trading. Watch the PA and catch the target pip amount persistenly day-by-day.
In my opinion, we all want to be a full-time trader. EA won't help me to be FX expert.... I want to EARN my OWN success.

Regards,

GrZack
  • #6,063
  • Aug 11, 2009 2:38am Aug 11, 2009 2:38am
Quoting beepblip
Hi EdgeTrader,

I am not looking to avoid the work, but an honest opinion of yours.
Do you think the rules are simple enough that an expert advisor could be coded up to execute them? I did search back in the thread and you mentioned that you wouldn't let a robot do demolition. Well, not to disagree, but smart bombs have become pretty popular, no?
Some attempts at coding an EA have been made, but have not necessarily profitable... Whilst it is easy enough to code up the 25% mechanical aspect, its getting the rest right that is the problem...

In truth though, some of the discretionary aspects of the plan were taken into account with the EA. Longer term trends (MTF Trix), and other factors were investigated. However, to date, nothing has seemingly been openly shared that can take up enough slack on the 75% discretionary side of the equation yet.

False signals seemed to be the problem with the EA that was around for a few days, and I am not sure that it was written to trade only in C4 times or not... Regardless, I don't think it did much better with Nitro either, which is traded 24/6.

As a young trader (in terms of trading forex) with only around 18 months of 'demo' experience under my belt, and a full time schedule that prohibits being able to in front of the monitor at all times (plus the fact that I am in Australia, and find the trading times tricky some nights), I would also love to see an EA. As DOC said though, Edge is heavy on trading the plan, as is.

I can see the merit in this... Just trade the setup (win or lose)... Essentially, that is exactly what the EA was doing, but then us humans were missing out on the experience gained along the way!

Earlier this week, Edge mentioned a practice exercise, where you take a week to just trade the changes in the Scalper Candles, just for shits and giggles, and to get a feel of the PA, without the bells and whistle indis. I feel that is kind of what we are being instructed to do anyway... to just trade the setup... if we are keen enough, and astute enough, we will learn 'by osmosis' what constitutes good PA behind a signal, and what to walk away from.

Edge is cleaver... He started us out on taking only 10 pips per trade. Then we went on to 5. Quite a few times he has mentioned taking 3... He is descrabling our eggs...

I am guessing that an EA is still not banished out of the minds of many folks following this thread. I believe that there may be a chance with the collective energy of so many minds on this thread that something may spontaniously materialize one day, as a result of the refinements and distinctions posters are making with C4 and Nitro.

The problem is not in the fact that an EA cannot be used to code C4/Nitro plan. The deficiency lies in the human's ability to conceptualise the other 75% of contributing factors in a way that a length of code can essentially make those same discretionary calls that a real live trader can make. Anything a human wants CAN be done by a computer, but not until we know exactly what it is that we want it to do. If part of that missing element is a nebulous thing called 'intuition' (the by-product of hours of screen time, 'just trading the plan', and eventually getting to know intrinsically what constitutes a good/bad setup), THAT will be the tricky thing to code up.

But, until then, we trade the plan, build our discretion, get a better feel for PA, get acquainted with best practice Money Management, and go for less, because it is more.

I hope this helps, and sorry for taking up half the page.

Russ
How do you make a small fortune in Forex? Start with a large one!
  • #6,064
  • Aug 11, 2009 2:48am Aug 11, 2009 2:48am
First trade of the day + 20 on gu .. avoid the choppyness
then quick +20

http://clip2net.com/clip/m15756/1249...-clip-14kb.png
  • #6,065
  • Aug 11, 2009 3:56am Aug 11, 2009 3:56am
Any comments ?
Tks
David
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  • #6,066
  • Aug 11, 2009 4:09am Aug 11, 2009 4:09am
Quoting david4u
Any comments ?
Tks
David

Yes...entry very late....take off that M15 TRIX....you don't need it on the chart...and if you watch the Edge's template on the 1st post...there is no M15 TRIX...
Market is like a puzzle, YOU have to fit the pieces!!
  • #6,067
  • Aug 11, 2009 4:11am Aug 11, 2009 4:11am
Quoting david4u
Any comments ?
Tks
David
Far too late
Entry at open of the second blue brick!
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #6,068
  • Aug 11, 2009 4:13am Aug 11, 2009 4:13am
Quoting Chris_B
Yes...entry very late....take off that M15 TRIX....you don't need it on the chart...and if you watch the Edge's template on the 1st post...there is no M15 TRIX...
OK... I lost the speed competition
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #6,069
  • Aug 11, 2009 4:29am Aug 11, 2009 4:29am
Dx & Chris_B
I am trying to follow the rules so at the open of the second
blue brick I could not enter as the Trix (M15) was down !
I have placed the Trix MTF indi to monitor it very close and I entered as the Trix (M15) became green .(I know the info is in Dx meter)
Do you use the confirmation of the M15 Trix ?
May be , if the M15 confirmation comes "late" I should have passed this trade ? Are any rules about cases like this ? how many bricks after the Trix arrow u can still enter the trade ?
Tks
David

Quoting DXTrade
Far too late
Entry at open of the second blue brick!
  • #6,070
  • Aug 11, 2009 4:33am Aug 11, 2009 4:33am
Maybe it's just me but I don't think Edge has ever endorsed putting the M15 Trix on his charts and using it as confirmation:

Edge's post on Price Action yesterday is KEY!

Watch PA 1st in relation to the MA you have up...either HMA or LWMA...then move onto the indicator's----MOMENTUM is all you truly need.
  • #6,071
  • Edited 5:10am Aug 11, 2009 4:42am | Edited 5:10am
Nothing wrong with higher tf confirmation if you want it, but
wont work on renko charts... you could use a series
of ma's for higher time frame confirmation or just use a
6 1 1 1 or 7 1 1 1 trix on your renko charts to emulate
an mtf trix like on the c4 charts some like to use.

If you use the 6 111 or 7 111 trix, then make sure you
use the sm 4 col so you can see the color of the cycle
for real trend confirmation-if you want to use confirmation.

But definitely late entry...very very late. If you use higher
time frame confirmation it has to agree when you
would normally enter, you dont wait for it to agree, fyi.

Brian

PS: Personally, I use the dx trade info, the new nitro version
with 4 111 4 col trix as the confirmation for the 2 111 renko blocks.

Quoting david4u
Dx & Chris_B
I am trying to follow the rules so at the open of the second
blue brick I could not enter as the Trix (M15) was down !
I have placed the Trix MTF indi to monitor it very close and I entered as the Trix (M15) became green .(I know the info is in Dx meter)
Do you use the confirmation of the M15 Trix ?
May be , if the M15 confirmation comes "late" I should have passed this trade ? Are any rules about cases like this ? how many bricks after the Trix arrow u can still enter the trade ?
Tks
David
  • #6,072
  • Aug 11, 2009 5:03am Aug 11, 2009 5:03am
Quoting david4u
Dx & Chris_B
I am trying to follow the rules so at the open of the second
blue brick I could not enter as the Trix (M15) was down !
I have placed the Trix MTF indi to monitor it very close and I entered as the Trix (M15) became green .(I know the info is in Dx meter)
Do you use the confirmation of the M15 Trix ?
May be , if the M15 confirmation comes "late" I should have passed this trade ? Are any rules about cases like this ? how many bricks after the Trix arrow u can still enter the trade ?
Tks
David
If I don't have the M15 confirmation either I don't take the trade at all and wait for the next arrow, or I disregard the M15 and go anyway... depends on the situation. But in your case the M15 was the trigger with the M5 confirmation. That's like trading from the M15.
Hope you understand.
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #6,073
  • Aug 11, 2009 5:07am Aug 11, 2009 5:07am
I'm totally going back to basics here...I'm using HMA 8,6,1 as my entry and Momentum as my Exit.

Thanks Edge...I really needed that post on focusing on PA only...it's almost like looking at one of those 3D posters...If you try to see the image really hard, you won't, but when you step back and let it come to you...I am seeing like another 5-10 trades per day!...

As I type this...I'd be up another 10 pips had I stayed! OH WELL
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  • #6,074
  • Aug 11, 2009 5:09am Aug 11, 2009 5:09am
Hi Brian
I have not changed anything from page 1 .
Make sure that the bottom three (3) indicator settings are showing either green (long) or red (short) in color!!!!!!!
One of the 3 is Trix(15) .You are actuaily waiting that your chart's Trix will be in the same direction as the one in the M15 .
It's not a confirmation of a higher TM actually ?
It's not mandatory to wait for the 3 indicator to be in the same color ?
Why you say it won't work with Renko ?
It's not Edge's rules ?
Tks
David

Quoting golden1
Nothing wrong with higher tf confirmation if you want it, but
wont work on renko charts... you could use a series
of ma's for higher time frame confirmation or just use a
6 1 1 1 or 7 1 1 1 trix on your renko charts to emulate
an mtf trix like on the c4 charts some like to use.

If you use the 6 111 or 7 111 trix, then make sure you
use the sm 4 col so you can see the color of the cycle
for real trend confirmation-if you want to use confirmation.

But definitely late entry...very very late. If you use higher
time frame confirmation it has to...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: trix m15.gif Size: 51 KB
  • #6,075
  • Aug 11, 2009 5:11am Aug 11, 2009 5:11am
Thanks again for all your dx trade info indicators and
now the sep. ones or renko and c4, great work
and much appreciated.

Brian

Quoting DXTrade
If I don't have the M15 confirmation either I don't take the trade at all and wait for the next arrow, or I disregard the M15 and go anyway... depends on the situation. But in your case the M15 was the trigger with the M5 confirmation. That's like trading from the M15.
Hope you understand.
  • #6,076
  • Aug 11, 2009 5:13am Aug 11, 2009 5:13am
On the mtf trix at the bottom of your posted chart...its not the same as the dx info reading of the mtf.. mtf on the renko chart will read differently than the actual mtf info. FYI Yes I make sure the dx info says M15 trix down before I enter myself
but the bottom trix you displayed wont necessarily be the same info, see above, that's what I was referring to.
Brian

Quoting david4u
Any comments ?
Tks
David
  • #6,077
  • Aug 11, 2009 5:19am Aug 11, 2009 5:19am
Quoting golden1
On the mtf trix at the bottom of your posted chart...its not the same as the dx info reading of the mtf.. mtf on the renko chart will read differently than the actual mtf info. FYI Yes I make sure the dx info says M15 trix down before I enter myself
but the bottom trix you displayed wont necessarily be the same info, see above, that's what I was referring to.
Brian
It should be the same info... with some very small delay... imperceptible.
But to answer David: NO waiting brick!
Once the brick with the arrow is closed you go if all confirms... or you forget it altogether. As I said: in your example you traded M15 with M5 confirmation... the wrong way around!
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #6,078
  • Aug 11, 2009 5:23am Aug 11, 2009 5:23am
Done for the night - getting tired.

Edge Nitro:

CHFJPY +5
EURJPY +5 +5 +5
AUDJPY +5


No charts to post, sorry!
  • #6,079
  • Aug 11, 2009 5:34am Aug 11, 2009 5:34am
Dx
sorry I don't .
Our trigger is the 3 indi in the same direction , correct ?
If it does not happened almost simultaneously , then you don't wait ...
and you wait for the next Trix arrow ?
Can you explain about the M5 ?
We have the trix of our chart (M2) and in the meter the M15 Trix ...
but the M5 ?
I am missing something ...
tks
David

Quoting DXTrade
If I don't have the M15 confirmation either I don't take the trade at all and wait for the next arrow, or I disregard the M15 and go anyway... depends on the situation. But in your case the M15 was the trigger with the M5 confirmation. That's like trading from the M15.
Hope you understand.
  • #6,080
  • Aug 11, 2009 5:43am Aug 11, 2009 5:43am
Regarding the gu...(not one of the 4 pairs)
I entered on the same brick of the arrow .
too early ?
the earliest entry can be only at the open of the 1st brick after the arrow ?
Tks
David
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