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C4 Scalping

  • #5,881
  • Aug 9, 2009 9:07pm Aug 9, 2009 9:07pm
Quoting dozzz71
fellas i dont understand the meaning of c4 scalping, i have been on forex factory and i do notice this thread, i can see there are great traders here. please someone explain to me the meaning of this,regards
Here is the explanation: start at post #1 of this thread. Read through to the last post. It will all be clear.

[sigh]
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #5,882
  • Aug 9, 2009 9:18pm Aug 9, 2009 9:18pm
Post #1 is very helpful to highlight the mechanical part of Edgetrader's plan. As has been stated numerous times, there is a discretionary part to the entries. It is this discretionary part I would like to discuss. I think newcomers and "seasoned veterans" might find this C4 exercise beneficial.

Take a look at the attached screenshot. It is EURUSD M5 chart and the time is between 7 AM and 12 PM ET and no news releases are due for a few hours. The current candle has just reached the 1.43791 price level. Following the rules of C4, I will tell you that the TRIX(2,1,1,1) has just crossed down below zero, the MA(10,3,6) has just changed color to red (down), and the last 3 lines of the DXTrade Info (Trix M5, Trix M15, and Momentum) are now all red (down). What steps would you follow and what additional information would you need to determine if you would enter a short trade here or not?

I would venture to guess the answers will cover a wide range of methods. Some might take the trade immediately. Some might look at the ADX and ATR values. Some might say "it depends on the Price Action". Well, what in particular about the price action would you be looking at? Some might want to see what other pairs are doing at this instance. Some might flip a coin. Some might say it is impossible to determine. Well, what information would you need to make it possible to make a decision?

Thanks in advance to those who participate!
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #5,883
  • Aug 9, 2009 9:25pm Aug 9, 2009 9:25pm
Quoting zznbrm
Take a look at the attached screenshot. It is EURUSD M5 chart and the time is between 7 AM and 12 PM ET and no news releases are due for a few hours. The current candle has just reached the 1.43791 price level. Following the rules of C4, I will tell you that the TRIX(2,1,1,1) has just crossed down below zero, the MA(10,3,6) has just changed color to red (down), and the last 3 lines of the DXTrade Info (Trix M5, Trix M15, and Momentum) are now all red (down). [b]What steps would you follow and what additional information would you need to determine...
We would follow the plan as per the primer-trigger-detonator strategy outlined in post #1, (which has not changed since the thread started, only the color of indicators and minor adjustments have changed. This has always been about learning to recognize and follow PA.)

If all are signaling a trade, we take the trade. Most of the time it works perfectly as you can see by perusing hundreds of previous postings.
What else are you looking for?

Re-read post #1 .. then just try it out in demo & either prove it to yourself .. or not.
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #5,884
  • Aug 9, 2009 9:48pm Aug 9, 2009 9:48pm
Hi Edge & friends,
I am making a conscience effort to start posting more trades.
Here are my first 2 of the week.
Mike
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  • #5,885
  • Aug 9, 2009 9:48pm Aug 9, 2009 9:48pm
4xStar - Thank you very much for your answer. You are obviously a 100% mechanical trader, not using any discretion. For you, the TRIX changes color, the MA changes color, the DXTrade info points in the right direction and BOOM you go for it. That is great...thanks for your opinion.

And to answer your question, I am not looking for anything else. I just thought it would be quite beneficial to discuss the "discretion" parts of the entries. You use no discretion and that is a completely acceptable answer.


Quoting 4xStar
We would follow the plan as per the primer-trigger-detonator strategy outlined in post #1, (which has not changed since the thread started, only the color of indicators and minor adjustments have changed. This has always been about learning to recognize and follow PA.)

If all are signaling a trade, we take the trade. Most of the time it works perfectly as you can see by perusing hundreds of previous postings.
What else are you looking for?

Re-read post #1 .. then just try it out in demo & either prove it to yourself .. or not.
  • #5,886
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:02pm Aug 9, 2009 10:02pm
Quoting zznbrm
Post #1 is very helpful to highlight the mechanical part of Edgetrader's plan. As has been stated numerous times, there is a discretionary part to the entries. It is this discretionary part I would like to discuss. I think newcomers and "seasoned veterans" might find this C4 exercise beneficial.

Take a look at the attached screenshot. It is EURUSD M5 chart and the time is between 7 AM and 12 PM ET and no news releases are due for a few hours. The current candle has just reached the 1.43791 price level. Following the rules of C4, I will tell...
Well, this must be some type of pop quiz. Nothing like incomplete information to try to form a decision upon.

1. This chart does not show any type of indicator, so you are flying blind as a bat.

2. You have a minor long bias in place based on the last hour. Tested support several times and bounced off of such.

3. What are the EU pairs friends doing (AU, GU and EY)? That would provide you a better idea of overall markey activity as they have good correlation most of the time.

4. You have complete indecision just 15 minutes prior. See no point in guessing here as it is obvious the pair is coming out of a news event relatively recently.

5. As the pair is in up bias consolidation, one of its 'friends' may be presenting a better trading opportunity.

In summation, I would hold off any action here as I do not have enough information to base a trading decision off of. If it's 'friends' are in the same modest uptrend, I would look to the long side as it seems to be retracing a news selloff anyway.

Regards.
  • #5,887
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:03pm Aug 9, 2009 10:03pm
Quoting zznbrm
... For you, the TRIX changes color, the MA changes color, the DXTrade info points in the right direction and BOOM you go for it. ...
In here Stan .. that's the Plan. Why don't you find a discretionary trading thread? There are plenty of them on FF.
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #5,888
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:05pm Aug 9, 2009 10:05pm
Quoting mikepip
Hi Edge & friends,
I am making a conscience effort to start posting more trades.
Here are my first 2 of the week.
Mike
Excellent work here. Clean, clear, concise charts and good PA allowing your signals to work together to confirm what would be a pretty easy hypothesis to reach regarding direction.

Regards.
  • #5,889
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:15pm Aug 9, 2009 10:15pm
I wish you continued success with your trading. The hostility in your responses to me is noted. I will leave you to continue trading this system 100% mechanically.

Quoting 4xStar
In here Stan .. that's the Plan. Why don't you find a discretionary trading thread? There are plenty of them on FF.
  • #5,890
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:19pm Aug 9, 2009 10:19pm
Quoting 4xStar
In here Stan .. that's the Plan. Why don't you find a discretionary trading thread? There are plenty of them on FF.
Ah, and herein lies the trap.

We do indeed have a discretionary aspect to consider as we always have.

On the surface, the information provided is such to allow one to go with a mechanical setup that is supposedly present. All we are doing at this point is simply trading signals as they present themselves in order to gain proficiency at signal recognition and initiating and completing a trade. It does not matter if you win and lose right now. We are working the 'mechanical' end of trading the plan still.

In live trading, you would NEVER trade one pair in C4 as you cannot get enough information about the market in general based upon just one pair. As such, the information is incomplete and therefore one cannot, or should not, take a trade until you have all the information needed to form a solid trading decision.

We will work a good bit this week on the 75% mental aspect I think. The setups are easy to identify. The real confirmation of a trading decision with C4 are when ALL the pairs recommended are in sync with each other. This happens quite frequently and is better than ANY mechanical indicator available to a trade. Look for overall market PA in the adjoining pairs recommended to be in high correlation.

Regards.
  • #5,891
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:20pm Aug 9, 2009 10:20pm
Well, that's the point! According to post #1, I provided all the necessary information to take the trade, mechanically speaking. But, as you have just demonstrated by your answer, there is much more to taking entries than just the mechanics.

I guarantee you a few jaws dropped when folks saw all the possible things you look at before pushing the plunger. 4xStar probably fainted!

Quoting Edgetrader
Nothing like incomplete information to try to form a decision upon.
  • #5,892
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:26pm Aug 9, 2009 10:26pm
Quoting 4xStar
In here Stan .. that's the Plan. Why don't you find a discretionary trading thread? There are plenty of them on FF.
This from post #1:

Quote
How you choose to trade is personal decision YOU have to make. It is up to you to decide when to 'hit the ignitor' and enter a trade. This is not 100% mechanical and there is a discretionary aspect to consider. You will have to 'think real hard about this'.

Apparently a discretionary trading thread has been located.
  • #5,893
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:28pm Aug 9, 2009 10:28pm
Quoting zznbrm
Well, that's the point! According to post #1, I provided all the necessary information to take the trade, mechanically speaking. But, as you have just demonstrated by your answer, there is much more to taking entries than just the mechanics.

I guarantee you a few jaws dropped when folks saw all the possible things you look at before pushing the plunger. 4xStar probably fainted!
Not if they are actually following the thread. If you had reviewed the postings of the last week, it was pretty clear we were working on getting the setups down first and foremost. Nobody ever claimed it was a 100% mechanical system. And it is only the ignorant who did not bother to read that on page one.

In addition, it has been clearly stated numerous times that the plan is 25% mechanical and 75% mental. That is why you have to do the work. Only a fool believes there is a 100% mechanical plan.

Now, would you like to continue to play head games and get slaughtered, or would you like to throw some of your own trading efforts out there for review.

That would be the jaw-dropping event all would be staggered with.

Your choice.
  • #5,894
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:29pm Aug 9, 2009 10:29pm
Quoting Edgetrader
Excellent work here. Clean, clear, concise charts and good PA allowing your signals to work together to confirm what would be a pretty easy hypothesis to reach regarding direction.

Regards.
Thank you sensei.

I plan to try out your suggestion of using "naked" renko charts. I guess once you can read PA on those, you got the hang of it!
My challenge will be the lack of candlesticks, since I have used these with s/r prior to C4/Nitro.
Mike
  • #5,895
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:32pm Aug 9, 2009 10:32pm
Quoting FXEZ
This from post #1:



Apparently a discretionary trading thread has been located.
Sorry, was posting at the same time.

His first apology better be to 4xstar and best be pretty damn quick.

Regards.
  • #5,896
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:32pm Aug 9, 2009 10:32pm
Quoting Edgetrader
Ah, and herein lies the trap.

We do indeed have a discretionary aspect to consider as we always have.
Yes .. I know that and I do a ton of research over the weekend to familiarize myself with what is going on overall and I keep an eye on weekly, daily and 4 hour charts.

But the point is .. none of these things made me consistent money in the past. I would win, I would lose. What you have done is show a clear, concise, simple way to identify specific PA and go for small pip gains which are there for the taking within larger moves.

I was just having some fun with our zz friend who seems to be determined to introduce complications to a very very VERY simple system.
...as so many are prone to do... [sigh]
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #5,897
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:33pm Aug 9, 2009 10:33pm
Quoting mikepip
Thank you sensei.

I plan to try out your suggestion of using "naked" renko charts. I guess once you can read PA on those, you got the hang of it!
My challenge will be the lack of candlesticks, since I have used these with s/r prior to C4/Nitro.
Mike
Not 'naked' Mike. Use them with the SM Scalper candle indi overlayed. It is an easy exercise to play with.

Regards.
  • #5,898
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:36pm Aug 9, 2009 10:36pm
Quoting 4xStar
Yes .. I know that and I do a ton of research over the weekend to familiarize myself with what is going on overall and I keep an eye on weekly, daily and 4 hour charts.

But the point is .. none of these things made me consistent money in the past. I would win, I would lose. What you have done is show a clear, concise, simple way to identify specific PA and go for small pip gains which are there for the taking within larger moves.

I was just having some fun with our zz friend who seems to be determined to introduce complications to a very...
And as with many, he has no trading efforts to substantiate any claims or concerns.

You are never faulted for effort. Only for the lack thereof.

Regards.
  • #5,899
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:38pm Aug 9, 2009 10:38pm
This latest nitro chart setup is amazing .. nothing fundamental has changed but from a visual perspective is it easier than ever to see the 1-2-3.... BOOM! I foresee a lot of pips being made this week.

My New Week resolution is to post my trades more often!
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #5,900
  • Aug 9, 2009 10:46pm Aug 9, 2009 10:46pm
Quoting zznbrm
What steps would you follow and what additional information would you need to determine if you would enter a short trade here or not?
I don't like to jump in on long candles for several reasons. I would wait for this candle to close hoping for a bounce to enter
Q
The Only Constant Is Change!
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