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  • #101
  • Aug 8, 2009 4:23am Aug 8, 2009 4:23am
Quoting coscorp
There you go again...therefore I will ask you directly - in which category do you place Jacko? If in the second (slandering him yet again)....
lol, you're not leaving me much choice there coscorp!

Your loyalty is commendable albeit misplaced in my opinion. No offence but to be honest there doesn't really seem a lot to be gained from debating these issues with you, I'm only replying out of courtesy as I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you
  • #102
  • Aug 8, 2009 4:24am Aug 8, 2009 4:24am
Quoting billflet

......If you were trying to write horror stories and were on the threshold of success, but couldn’t quite cross it, what would a few days with Stephen King be worth?
Excellent post!
  • #103
  • Edited 6:19am Aug 8, 2009 6:16am | Edited 6:19am
Quoting pipmutt
lol, you're not leaving me much choice there coscorp!

Your loyalty is commendable albeit misplaced in my opinion. No offence but to be honest there doesn't really seem a lot to be gained from debating these issues with you, I'm only replying out of courtesy as I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you
It's not about being loyal - it IS however about being just. Do you honestly think I wouldn't be here blasting him if I had any inkling he was not delivering?

So, again - why is it misplaced in your opinion? I'm open to debate...but you keep throwing stones and then hiding you hand as it were....and frankly i can't understand why....



Billflet - very very well said.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #104
  • Aug 8, 2009 7:15am Aug 8, 2009 7:15am
Quoting LasVahGoose
This is true, but you made it about a particular person and have upset many people.
This is bordering upon hyper-sensitive fanaticism. People who sell stuff have put themselves in the firing line of scrutiny. They should expect it and if they're worth it, welcome it. If Jacko's group (or J16 or whoever else) is as good as some people say it is then the quality will speak for itself. To be honest, this hair trigger response to any criticism (legitimate or otherwise) concerns me more than anything else and actually reflects badly upon the service provider too IMO. Call off the jihad.
  • #105
  • Aug 8, 2009 7:28am Aug 8, 2009 7:28am
Sorry, this is most definitely not a jihad...it could be anyone being "targeted"...what is NOT acceptable is someone making allegations that can be construed as slander (or bordering) and similar and then not put up with valid arguments backing up their statements when asked repeatedly to do so.

That is simply not acceptable - I am open to discussion however I demand that when statements are made regarding other people they are then backed up - otherwise they are totally useless and leave me wondering why they were made in the first place.

And as I already stated I would love to stand corrected on what I (and others with me) interpreted regarding statements that had all the appearance of stone throwing just for the hell of it....doesn't work that way where I come from...

peace.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #106
  • Aug 8, 2009 8:18am Aug 8, 2009 8:18am
Quoting coscorp
...what is NOT acceptable is someone making allegations that can be construed as slander (or bordering) and similar and then not put up with valid arguments backing up their statements when asked repeatedly to do so.
Ok coscorp come on spit it out, what's been said that has offended your fragile sensibilities so much that you need it backing up with 'valid arguments'?

This is totally pointless but I see you're not going to leave it alone so.....
  • #107
  • Aug 8, 2009 8:26am Aug 8, 2009 8:26am
Quoting pipmutt
lol, you're not leaving me much choice there coscorp!

Your loyalty is commendable albeit misplaced in my opinion. No offence but to be honest there doesn't really seem a lot to be gained from debating these issues with you, I'm only replying out of courtesy as I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you

Me? I don't need to spit out anything my friend...but I've highlighted one valid for all...

Now please tell me why it is misplaced? What is it you know that I don't?

Thanks.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #108
  • Aug 8, 2009 8:50am Aug 8, 2009 8:50am
Quoting coscorp
Me? I don't need to spit out anything my friend...but I've highlighted one valid for all...

Now please tell me why it is misplaced? What is it you know that I don't?

Thanks.
You seem to have an agenda of your own here and for some reason you're trying to draw me into your argument about a specific individual. I've already said numerous times that I'm not prepared to get into a debate about one particular vendor on this site, it's not constructive and rarely leads to anything conclusive.

I clearly remember saying to you, 'you pays your money and you takes your choice, if it works for you then great'. I'm really not sure what else you want me to say!
  • #109
  • Aug 8, 2009 9:14am Aug 8, 2009 9:14am
No agenda here - far from it - yet I see you keep shying away from the issue...you made a statement - I invited you to elaborate more than once; the last time being post 107 above.

At this point I'm starting to wonder if YOU have an agenda.

When you choose to elaborate on your statement I will be glad to read it and discuss further.

Until then

Good luck.
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #110
  • Aug 8, 2009 9:19am Aug 8, 2009 9:19am
Quoting coscorp
When you choose to elaborate on your statement I will be glad to read it and discuss further.
Ummm, no thanks, I would rather stick pins in my eyes

If you need anything clarifying then it's all in the thread.

Ok good, finally we're done!
  • #111
  • Edited 12:49pm Aug 8, 2009 12:36pm | Edited 12:49pm
Quoting birdt
This is bordering upon hyper-sensitive fanaticism. People who sell stuff have put themselves in the firing line of scrutiny.
[I'm speaking in 'general terms 'here, not about anyone specific.]

True, people have their opinions, but making false claims is not a valid way to discredit any vendor. If someone has a beef with a vendor they should back it up with some facts. IMO

Quote
To be honest, this hair trigger response to any criticism (legitimate or otherwise) concerns me more than anything else and actually reflects badly upon the service provider too IMO.
[Without getting into specifics and speaking in 'general terms']

If someone makes a claims that a vendor, as an example only, is robbing people, they should back it up with some evidence or if possible some proof. I don't feel that is a hair trigger response, I think it is very fair. IMO

Quote
Call off the jihad.
Not my war dude and I wasn't planning on posting again, until I saw this. We must be doing okay, we're not in the Recycle Bin, yet.


Again, I'm speaking in general and generic terms. Obviously from reading the whole thread it is obvious I have no issues discussing something directly with a person I object with, but this message is not about anyone in specific.

Thank You.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #112
  • Aug 8, 2009 12:37pm Aug 8, 2009 12:37pm
Quoting pipmutt
Ok good, finally we're done!
Man, I didn't ever think I'd agree with you. LOL [Just playing.] See you on the next controversial topic.

I think I'm done too, unless someone raises their club in my direction.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #113
  • Edited 1:44pm Aug 8, 2009 1:24pm | Edited 1:44pm
Quoting birdt
put themselves in the firing line
Okay, one more post. Since you've posted to the thread and put yourself in the firing line.

Seriously though, since this thread is ultimately about mentoring. Do you think having a mentor is good investment?
I'm asking sincerely here, it's cool if you don't want to answer.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #114
  • Aug 8, 2009 5:33pm Aug 8, 2009 5:33pm
Quoting fxtrader29
I don’t understand why everyone gets hot and bothered about employing a mentor.

I quickly found out that the cost of the learning from the experience and wisdom of a mentor is chump change. The cost of not paying for anything and trying to learn every thing from scratch is paid for in making all the stupid newbie mistakes, which is a lot more expensive.
I agree wih your thoughts. It is nuts to make all the stupid newbie mistakes if someone will gude you in the right direction.
  • #115
  • Aug 8, 2009 5:37pm Aug 8, 2009 5:37pm
Quoting fxtrader29
I could have been tight-fisted with my money and decided NOT to pay for my University degree and the cost of having a mentor.
I could have decided to pay for nothing and learn everything about accountancy from the internet for free.
But do you think I would have two thriving accountancy businesses with 28 staff by the age of 30? I am not conceited enough to say that I could have done it on my own. I am forever indebted to my CPA mentors for sharing their wisdom and experience with me.
.
Quote
Likewise for trading. I could have leapt into trading with much gusto and traded like every other newbie. But I didn’t want to be in the 95% of traders who blow up their accounts. And as good fortune would have it, having Jacko for my mentor in this business have not only saved me thousands of dollars, but has already made me tens of thousands of dollars

Very smart. Fxtrader, you are a very smart man
  • #116
  • Aug 8, 2009 7:18pm Aug 8, 2009 7:18pm
lol, classic....

Some of you have a set of blinkers fused to your noggins. Quite a common problem with all professions. Once you become experienced in something, you get a "it's my way or the highway" attitude and forget that each individual is different in the way they process information.

Just because it works for YOU, it does not mean it will work for EVERYONE.

It doesn't take much research to find that Jacko's method of trading is discretionary. Unfortunately, discretionary trading is not for everyone. You don't see many discuss this fact, plenty of "he's the absolute best and YOU ALL should do the same" though. Classic pompous and ignorant human mentality. I learnt something, I'm so good. You are useless because you can't (afford to) learn it too.

Billflet's post did not mention the fact that a mentor that helped him, may not help the person next door because of the different thought processes two separate individuals may possess. Does that make the student unteachable? To many of you I'm sure you'll answer yes... lol... No wonder education systems across the globe are in such a mess.

A person who writes horror stories may find a session with Stephen King useless if they don't write in a similar style. Does that make them detined for failure? Ha, yeah right.

So add to the fact that you have to find a reputable and ethical mentor, you also have to find one that can accommodate for your own personal style of learning. For some, that may be nobody at all!!! Look up the member psiholog, you'll then understand what I mean.... Love your work too btw psi...

I am not dismissing mentors, I myself was mentored by a close friend's wife in my early days of trading. Sure it helped me, but I can't guarantee it would help you too...
  • #117
  • Aug 8, 2009 7:47pm Aug 8, 2009 7:47pm
Quoting TwoBuckChuck
lol, classic....



Billflet's post did not mention the fact that a mentor that helped him, may not help the person next door because of the different thought processes two separate individuals may possess. Does that make the student unteachable? To many of you I'm sure you'll answer yes... lol... No wonder education systems across the globe are in such a mess.

A person who writes horror stories may find a session with Stephen King useless if they don't write in a similar style. Does that make them detined for failure? Ha, yeah right.

So...
My post didn't mention a lot of things.

You're correct. The mentors I've used would not be suitable for everyone, nor would they accept anyone based only on their ability to pay. That's what I meant by "teachable". A good mentor will know if they can work with a prospective student or not. It doesn't mean the student is unteachable by anyone else. My point is that an ethical mentor won't take someone if they know that they (the mentor) can't help them, for whatever reason. That doesn't mean someone else can't.

As far as the Stephen King analogy, for Chuck's benefit I'll rephrase it: If someone is trying to write horror stories and is on the threshold of success, but can't quite cross it, how much would a few days with a spectacular, successful horror writer be worth? Assuming of course that both people had had some meaningful rapport, they got along well, and wrote in the same style.
  • #118
  • Aug 9, 2009 4:10am Aug 9, 2009 4:10am
Quoting TwoBuckChuck
Billflet's post did not mention the fact that a mentor that helped him, may not help the person next door because of the different thought processes two separate individuals may possess. Does that make the student unteachable?

But don't you think there are some universal criteria to being a suitable student? Some people are unteachable because they lack some of the very basic skills mandatory for the job. They need to master those basic skills first (if they're able) before thinking about spending money/time on mentoring by a professional.

Using the Stephen King analogy, if a hopeful author can't even string a sentence together and lacks any sort of imagination then it's not really going to matter whether they've got the same thought process, the student is a totally unsuitable prospect to be mentored by any professional writer, a mentor wouldn't waste his time and effort.

I bet you could read a thread here on FF and pick out the posters who probably have potential, and those who clearly don't.....I think it's a mentor's and a vendor's responsibility to advise the student accordingly. Mentors will because they don't want to waste their time and they want to see their prospect succeed, vendors won't because they want the money regardless.
  • #119
  • Aug 9, 2009 5:26pm Aug 9, 2009 5:26pm
Quoting daringdave
Very smart. Fxtrader, you are a very smart man
I was an average student at University. But when I entered the business community I was a fast learner that it was not what you know, it is who you know and how you can link into their knowledge and experience.
I have watched my mates from Uni try to do everything on their own and ignore their mentors. They have all tried to reinvent the wheel and are making some really stupid mistakes and wasting lots of money. The more arrogant they were in telling everyone that they didn't need any help, the more money they have wasted.
  • #120
  • Aug 9, 2009 5:44pm Aug 9, 2009 5:44pm
I dont need a mentor because I just read James Dicks book on Forex! Now I have all the knowledge I need! For me-making EVERY mistake known to trading was my most valuable education-do Mentors teach that?
FF = Forex Faggots
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