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C4 Scalping

  • #5,021
  • Aug 4, 2009 8:49am Aug 4, 2009 8:49am
Quoting AllanFX
Hi Edge, noticed that in page 1 instructions primer=hma color change, and sometimes when primer=momentum and detonator=trix are lined up/changing color, the hma is still on old trend color til the brick finishes painting.
Q= do we wait til the brick finishes or get in on mom/trix indi change of color in "mid brick".
Regards
It is not a 100% 'mechanical' trading plan. It will require a trader to engage in a discretionary thought process to trade proficiently. It has a very good base set of mechanicals to work with, but a trader needs to be able to look at PA and tell what is going on. Also, when 'everything' lines up, that is as good a trading op as one will get.

Improvise, adapt and overcome is the phrase commonly thrown out in this thread. Work the indicators in combinations that help each individual find what works best for them. Use a primer as a detonator, or a detonator as a primer. Use the tools provided to go blow something up.

No purely mechanical plan has ever worked that I have seen. Some have good ability to spot trade entry, or can be used to augment the trade exit thought process, but it is the trader who has to do the work.

Also, as mentioned in a long ago posting, I tend to be very careful in using an ea. If one is designed that can be used at such a level as to skew the market averages out of the brokerages favor, it will be banned and the account closed. This is the GREED issue that will at some point need addressed. Brokerages operate as casino's do. They need an 'edge', which is usually quite large in the retail trader arena. They will allow a trader to profit quite often, provided the trader does not tip the odds too much.

Is best to fly 'under' the radar.

Regards.
  • #5,022
  • Aug 4, 2009 8:50am Aug 4, 2009 8:50am
Quoting webicknell
Gleneagles... assuming you are posting all your trades, you have found the magic trigger.... your posted trades look like a well directed symphony.

I hope to get close to what you are achieving.

Keep up the good work.

Wayne
Wayne,

No, I am not posting ALL the trades... I normally post the first few when I start trading during LDN/EUR open. I keep a close eye on ATR , PA and volatility.

I am done for the day and most of my trades are done early LDN session.

The only additional "filters" I have added is ATR monitor and high/low break of signal candle ( as stated before )

I don`t trade each and every signal and expect it to work. I consider time of day, ATR, general trend and look at PA. If it is flat or bouncing around in a messy range...I simply don`t trade. If I want to pull the lion`s tail, I want to do it when he is not watching me

The Q you have to ask yourself....can I do 20-30 pips/day ????
If Cobraforex is not reading this Yes.. it can be done, over and over and over again. Believe me, it is better to be consistently average than occasionally brilliant.
" Never let the past hold the future to ransom "
  • #5,023
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:07am Aug 4, 2009 9:07am
[edge]....
Improvise, adapt and overcome is the phrase commonly thrown out in this thread. Work the indicators in combinations that help each individual find what works best for them. Use a primer as a detonator, or a detonator as a primer. Use the tools provided to go blow something up.
No purely mechanical plan has ever worked that I have seen. Some have good ability to spot trade entry, or can be used to augment the trade exit thought process, but it is the trader who has to do the work.
.....Regards.[/quote]

Thx edge,
Just breaking the ties to strict rules. On my trading platform i have real price action, so i can spot s&r, trendlines.. Gives me better idea (when renko/mom/trix points in a direction) when to get in.
Regards
  • #5,024
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:12am Aug 4, 2009 9:12am
Quoting Gleneagles
Believe me, it is better to be consistently average than occasionally brilliant.

WELL PUT! love it
  • #5,025
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:12am Aug 4, 2009 9:12am
Here's my first day of demolition trading with C4. I wanted to trade Nitro, but I decided to try and get a feel for C4 first. (I guess I want to learn how to walk before I try to run)
I took every signal, entered after candle close. For some reason, my terminal does not show the entry and exit points on the charts, I'll try to figure that out for tomorrow. Also, I entered the SL ant TP for each trade manually, so some entries were not as good as others. I'll try to find a script for a preset TP and SL, this should make executions much faster.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: terminal1.png Size: 62 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: charts1.png Size: 93 KB
I don't know what time it is at your place, but right here it's 4:20.
  • #5,026
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:17am Aug 4, 2009 9:17am
After reading page 1, sorry, I still not get it, what is that beast called "NITRO"
What is the Difference between C4 (anyways what's that stands for?)
What exactly C4 means? Click 4, Care 4, Carry 4??
Is using Renko charts, called Nitro? Can anyone explain please?
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  • #5,027
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:19am Aug 4, 2009 9:19am
Quoting SkyzerFX
After reading page 1, sorry, I still not get it, what is that beast called "NITRO"
What is the Difference between C4 (anyways what's that stands for?)
What exactly C4 means? Click 4, Care 4, Carry 4??
Is using Renko, called Nitro? Can anyone explain please?
C4 is an explosive, so is Nitro. Edge just calls the two systems with these words. I do not think that name is important. What is important is how Renko chart differs from the ordinary one.
But I am not a salesman of Renko, of course, and I am sure that trading can be well done without Renko

Wikipedia: C-4 or Composition 4 is a common variety of military plastic explosive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_explosive).
  • #5,028
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:19am Aug 4, 2009 9:19am
Quoting fxspeedster
Of course this concept has never been intended to be made into an EA and it may just be that it will always stay as a manual trading system. It's the same thing with Point & Figure charts.. great for manual trading and profitable but all EAs that are based on it lose big.

Good luck to all
Interesting observation and Thanks.

It is a 'sure bet' that C4 was never intended as a plan to be modified and then assisted with an ea. Complete waste of time and effort in that regard.

As for Nitro, you have to go back a bit in review.

Was it released for trading purposes to the thread?
Were the trading guidelines ever actually set forth?
Who modified it for MT4 usage?

The same thing is going on in the thread with the ea development as with the Nitro preview. Follows along the lines of being impatient. 'I want it all and I want it now' as some might say.

DX has been quite generous in providing material that is beneficial to this thread from the very beginning and will always have my eternal gratitude regardless of his works final conclusion.

I fully realize that I am being relatively adamant on having a trader learn to do the work. I also realize there are going to be a few frustrating days while working with the threads material. That is just the way I think it best to help initially.

Also, I have said many times that there already exists good ea's capable of trading the Nitro plan with. I simply choose not to tell thread followers where to get them or how to use them. They are things that years of trading, study and research have gone into in order to develop one that is 'proficient'. Those who have followed closely have heard repeatedly the old matra of:

'You learn and you earn',
consequently,
'You learn or you burn'.

That has not changed after a mere three weeks.

Patience is a key ingredient in trading. However, I do admire the tenacity and perseverance being shown lately. I hope it is worth the effort.

Regards.
  • #5,029
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:20am Aug 4, 2009 9:20am
Quoting zznbrm

2) Change the Renko script to give the option to start the Renko bars with the same prices.
That's a good idea.
I bought the renko source code. if i send it to a programmer, can you change it so I have the option to start renko bars on a specific pip eg. zzz.jpy = xxx.x5, or xxx.x0 ???
Looking at edge's posting of nitro from TS it looks like it starts renko bars on a xxx.x0 for 10 pip brick
Is this an ok post????????
Regards
  • #5,030
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:23am Aug 4, 2009 9:23am
Quoting AllanFX
[edge]....
Improvise, adapt and overcome is the phrase commonly thrown out in this thread. Work the indicators in combinations that help each individual find what works best for them. Use a primer as a detonator, or a detonator as a primer. Use the tools provided to go blow something up.
No purely mechanical plan has ever worked that I have seen. Some have good ability to spot trade entry, or can be used to augment the trade exit thought process, but it is the trader who has to do the work.
.....Regards.
Thx edge,
Just breaking the ties to strict rules. On my trading platform i have real price action, so i can spot s&r, trendlines.. Gives me better idea (when renko/mom/trix points in a direction) when to get in.
Regards[/quote]

Best answer available would be per visual aid.

A review of my posted charts earlier will be most beneficial. Those basic setups need reviewed, then a trader need to follow live PA until he sees them a few hundred times to gain pattern recognition in their brain. This takes a bit of time.

Further, a trader need to demo trade everything that remotely looks like a setup, try to get a +5 and develop a sense of their own ability.

Regards.
  • #5,031
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:23am Aug 4, 2009 9:23am
Quoting Indrek
C4 is an explosive, so is Nitro.
Thank you, but also on page 1. C4 recommended pairs are
different from Nitro recommended pairs. If only difference
is Charts style (Normal or Renko), then why should those be traded on different pairs..?
Strange.
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  • #5,032
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:26am Aug 4, 2009 9:26am
Quoting Vincenzo69
Here's my first day of demolition trading with C4. I wanted to trade Nitro, but I decided to try and get a feel for C4 first. (I guess I want to learn how to walk before I try to run)
I took every signal, entered after candle close. For some reason, my terminal does not show the entry and exit points on the charts, I'll try to figure that out for tomorrow. Also, I entered the SL ant TP for each trade manually, so some entries were not as good as others. I'll try to find a script for a preset TP and SL, this should make executions much faster.
As that seems to be a MT4 platform, simply drag and drop the trades onto the charts and it will really give a better visual aid to both myself and the thread in general.

Regards.
  • #5,033
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:27am Aug 4, 2009 9:27am
Quoting SkyzerFX
Thank you, but also on page 1. C4 recommended pairs are
different from Nitro recommended pairs. If only different
is Charts(Normal or Renko), then why should those be traded on different pairs..?
Strange.
That's what I cannot explain. I trade the same pairs with Renko as I did without and feel better with Renko. I never touch GY or sth like this.
But I am sure the Y pairs are suggested by Edge as they have good volatility and 5 pips are maybe easier target with them.

Today, I have taken 11 scalping trades with Renko and won all of them Good explosive!
  • #5,034
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:38am Aug 4, 2009 9:38am
Totally different day from yesterday...

Today a day reach of occasions....i'm still in a losing day due to some bad trades taken during range market...

P.S. Before questions askings...yes...i took some trades without Nitro signals...but only watching PA action...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 20090804c.gif Size: 45 KB
Market is like a puzzle, YOU have to fit the pieces!!
  • #5,035
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:39am Aug 4, 2009 9:39am
Here are my two for the day. I am shooting for +10 a day. I am using Nitro and running it on 2 pairs not recomended by Edge and 2 that are. Both trades were taken at the open of the Renko brick indicated by the orage line. Here are the charts:
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: nitroaug4eujy.gif Size: 15 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: nitroaug4euus.gif Size: 18 KB
  • #5,036
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:41am Aug 4, 2009 9:41am
Quoting Edgetrader
Updated on August 3, 2009. (reference 'Notice' on page #325/ post #4865)


1 - SM 'Scalper' candles (settings are 2,1,1,1 under the inputs tab and work the colors tab to your liking).

2 - HMA in color (settings are 8,3,3, true,2,0 under the inputs tab and set the colors as you wish).


DETONATORS (triggers)...

[color=black][font=verdana][color=red][b]1...
Edge,
In the original version we were using an LWMA and I see you have switched it to an HMA.

Also somewhere in the posts you indicated that Price had to cross the LWMA for the signal to be valid.

With this new HMA I don't see that this could be part of the recommendation now as the settings place the HMA on a downside bias which would make it more difficult for price to cross first.

Also, the Scalper candles are set for 2,1,1,1 while the TRIX indicator is set for 3,1,1,1 which causes it to lag the Scalper candles by sometimes 2 bars.

I have attached a chart (I've zoomed out to show clarity) which has two HMA's. One with the 8,3,3,true,2,0 setting and one with an 8,4,3,true,0,0 setting. The chart also has the Scalper candles set at 2,1,1,1 along with the top TRIX indicator being 2,1,1,1 and the bottom TRIX at 3,1,1,1.

I've noticed that the time lag between the Primer and Detonator will generally mean the difference between a profitable trade and a loss.

Thoughts?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: HMA TRIX Comparison.jpg Size: 140 KB
4XTrader2
  • #5,037
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:45am Aug 4, 2009 9:45am
Anyways I strongly feel that using this system in range market
it's like flipping a coin cause those TRIX alarms going SELL/ BUY
every few minutes.... Check this out. Those tiny red lines on the charts are
SL (17) and TP (5)
Perfect example how you
can LOSE 20-30 pips a day instead of making it:
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: nitro2.gif Size: 14 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: nitro4.gif Size: 14 KB
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  • #5,038
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:48am Aug 4, 2009 9:48am
I setup RenkoBar 5 tick with the same broker FXDD , but on 2 different computer. 1 computer have range from ".1 - .6" , but other have range from ".0 to .5" . therfore they have different chart and signal are different too.

That's weird

Does any one have the same issues ?
  • #5,039
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:51am Aug 4, 2009 9:51am
Quoting SkyzerFX
Anyways I strongly feel that using this system in range market
it's like flipping a coin cause those TRIX alarms going SELL/ BUY
every few minutes.... Check this out. Those tiny red lines on the charts are
SL (17) and TP (5)
Perfect example how you
can LOSE 20-30 pips a day instead of making it:
My friend, you seem to be always dissatisfied In trending markets, and in ranging markets too
Isn't ranging market also a good atmosphere to fish pips by a small amount? Price going up and down - the number of potential trades is just bigger!
  • #5,040
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:53am Aug 4, 2009 9:53am
Quoting SkyzerFX
Anyways I strongly feel that using this system in range market
it's like flipping a coin cause those TRIX alarms going SELL/ BUY
every few minutes.... Check this out. Those tiny red lines on the charts are
SL (17) and TP (5)
Perfect example how you
can LOSE 20-30 pips a day instead of making it:
The problem I see here is one, your SL is way too tight. Second, this is not a "look all the pretty colors line up" and you take the trade. There is some thought involved, if you see the market is ranging, don't trade. Second, on your charts, every long or short trade based on your charts would have been a winner, the only thing I cannot see, which is part of the charm or lack there of when it comes to Renko is there is no way to tell if the Renko brick went far enough up or down to hit a TP of 5 before closing in the oppsote direction. Also don't trade around the news, I didn't bother taking my first trade until after the 10:00am EST news..
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