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NFA - "No more Limit or Stop Loss orders"

  • #401
  • Aug 3, 2009 9:53am Aug 3, 2009 9:53am
Trading with FXCM and everything is running like a top. Of course I did spend the time to re-write some of my API code in anticipation of the change rather than spending my time belly-aching on a message board, just saying.

Improvise, overcome, adapt.
  • #402
  • Aug 3, 2009 9:56am Aug 3, 2009 9:56am
Quoting SmokyByers
Trading with FXCM and everything is running like a top. Of course I did spend the time to re-write some of my API code in anticipation of the change rather than spending my time belly-aching on a message board, just saying.

Improvise, overcome, adapt.
Have you tried to close in LIFO order thru your API code?
  • #403
  • Aug 3, 2009 9:56am Aug 3, 2009 9:56am
Quoting SmokyByers
Trading with FXCM and everything is running like a top. Of course I did spend the time to re-write some of my API code in anticipation of the change rather than spending my time belly-aching on a message board, just saying.

Improvise, overcome, adapt.
Belly-aching?-rofl-yet another moronic useless post(like mine).
FF = Forex Faggots
  • #404
  • Aug 3, 2009 9:58am Aug 3, 2009 9:58am
Quoting SmokyByers
Trading with FXCM and everything is running like a top. Of course I did spend the time to re-write some of my API code in anticipation of the change rather than spending my time belly-aching on a message board, just saying.

Improvise, overcome, adapt.
Well, good for you, but the fact that you re-wrote some API code would indicate that you and I trade differently, and I assume you are using MT4 whereas I am using FXCM Trade Station (though I may be wrong about you and MT4). I'm glad it is going well for you, but I have no idea why you would choose to waste your time attacking someone for whom the transition does not work with their accustomed trading style.

But, that's a forum for you, and there is always someone like you who needs to make himself feel better by putting down others.

Good for you.
  • #405
  • Aug 3, 2009 9:59am Aug 3, 2009 9:59am
Quoting wwwin
It looks as if they are doing what IBFX is doing, backend statement closing FIFO, client side, business as usual except on the month end statement, that would be FIFO order.
Oanda said when this whole thing started that they were already FIFO compliant according to their interpretation. They will not make any changes. The do not have a month end statement. Their transaction history is continuous.
  • #406
  • Aug 3, 2009 10:02am Aug 3, 2009 10:02am
Quoting ddaytrader
Well, good for you, but the fact that you re-wrote some API code would indicate that you and I trade differently, and I assume you are using MT4 whereas I am using FXCM Trade Station (though I may be wrong about you and MT4). I'm glad it is going well for you, but I have no idea why you would choose to waste your time attacking someone for whom the transition does not work with their accustomed trading style.

But, that's a forum for you, and there is always someone like you who needs to make himself feel better by putting down others.

Good for...
LOL, he is either:
1. trading UK;
2. or being forced into FIFO, no matter what code he writes;
or 3. He is, thru his code, violating FXCM's position on FIFO, smart guy he is, but he should keep his top to himself, is it may be stop spinning soon.

AND WHERE IS JASON, Hey Jason, if this guy is for real, why is he able thru API coding to bypass FXCM's policies???
  • #407
  • Aug 3, 2009 10:16am Aug 3, 2009 10:16am
I wasn't trying to put anyone down, I apologize if it came off that way. It was merely a tongue in cheek observation of this forum.

I assure you that I am not violating any of FXCM's 'policies'. I simply revised code to close trades with an opposing market order. All stops are kept on my side (all trades are closed via trailing stop). I do keep a fail safe stop placed with FXCM as an entry order, well above or below my system side stops, just in case of system failure. Runaway trades are no good. Since I don't use limit orders, no need for the OCO thing.

Not trading MT4, I dislike that platform.

Again, my last intention was to stir up trouble, I sometimes try to get people to see things differently and I wasn't bragging at all, I was just saying that it's not as bad as it seems.
  • #408
  • Aug 3, 2009 10:25am Aug 3, 2009 10:25am
Quoting SmokyByers
I sometimes try to get people to see things differently and I wasn't bragging at all, I was just saying that it's not as bad as it seems.
But do you see that it may be worse than it sems to you for someone who does not have the ability to rewrite code as you do?
  • #409
  • Aug 3, 2009 10:35am Aug 3, 2009 10:35am
Quoting ddaytrader
But do you see that it may be worse than it sems to you for someone who does not have the ability to rewrite code as you do?
True, true, point taken. I respect all different types of trading. My point is that there are many different ways to skin a cat and if one is taken away, find another. I was trading a different style up until a month ago, manual trading through the Tradestation (like you do I assume?), but when I got word of the change in early July, I realized that, since I relied heavily on trailing stops that it may not work anymore, so I began re-building my automated system which had been on the back burner. I knew very little about coding an automated system just a few months ago, but it can be done, anything can. Auto trading may not be for you, but my main point is.....

Improvise, overcome, adapt.
  • #410
  • Aug 3, 2009 10:44am Aug 3, 2009 10:44am
Quoting SmokyByers
I began re-building my automated system which had been on the back burner. I knew very little about coding an automated system just a few months ago, but it can be done, anything can. Auto trading may not be for you, but my main point is.....

Improvise, overcome, adapt.
I trade S/R, and use no indicator(s) as a trigger. I would not have the foggiest idea as to how I could automate what is a 100% discretionary approach.

The easiest solution will likely be to move to a different dealer.
  • #411
  • Aug 3, 2009 10:48am Aug 3, 2009 10:48am
Quoting ddaytrader
I trade S/R, and use no indicator(s) as a trigger. I would not have the foggiest idea as to how I could automate what is a 100% discretionary approach.

The easiest solution will likely be to move to a different dealer.
Gotcha, hey I'm out, sorry again for stirring up trouble and I wasn't trying to step on anyone's toes, I won't invade your space anymore.

Good luck and good trading to all of you.
  • #412
  • Aug 3, 2009 5:38pm Aug 3, 2009 5:38pm
Forex ... Hasta La Vista Baby

If you're like me and spend any time watching financial news networks, you have been subjected to thousands of forex (FX, or foreign exchange/currency market) commercials.

"Learn forex trading," "trade currencies," "make a steady income with forex," "just click and trade," "I made $18,252 profit in 20 days" ... these are just a few of the commercials you hear in a typical month, really! Literally millions of dollars have been spent introducing the public to a market that was never intended for small investors.

All I can say is ... "Hasta La Vista, Baby."

With the help of the National Futures Association (NFA), trading the forex for smaller American investors just became more difficult and probably more expensive. The rules introduced are so absurd that many forex brokerages are now encouraging their customers to move their accounts overseas where the new NFA rules do not apply. (The rules took effect on Aug. 1.)

Bye-Bye 'Little Guys'...

Many traders like to hedge their positions by opening several positions at once and deciding which one(s) to close. With the new NFA requirements, hedging is no longer an option. Instead, orders will be closed on a FIFO (First In, First Out) basis for RETAIL customers.

Retail customers, get it -- not institutional.

Let's see how this works. Trader Joe purchases 200,000 of the EUR/USD currency pair (i.e., simultaneously buying the euro and shorting the U.S. dollar) at 8 a.m. at price X. And then at 11 a.m., he purchases another 200,000 EUR/USD at price Y.

Maybe the 11 a.m. trade was at a lower price and he wants to add to his position. Combined, he has 400,000 EUR/USD. He averages the two prices to determine his profit.

Before Aug. 1, Joe could decide to close out the 11 a.m. trade and keep the 8 a.m. trade. However, now Joe must close his 8 a.m. trade before he can close the 11 a.m. trade.

Seems arbitrary, doesn't it?

Again, this rule (in fine print) applies to retail customers, not larger institutions.

Is that a misprint? A coincidence?

Here's another problem. Retail customers ordinarily trade with what is known as stop-loss and an order known as an OCO (Order Cancels Order). It is a feature built into desktop-trading platforms.

Joe buys at the current price. He then enters an offer to sell at a higher price for profit right away. And, to protect himself, he enters another sell order at a price lower than his entry price just in case the market moves against him, his "stop-loss" order.

Neither trade executes right away but are offers to sell only. Whichever order price gets hit first is what determines Joe's profit. If the profit target is reached, he gains. But if the price reaches the stop-loss before the profit target is reached, he loses.

Sayonara, Safety Net

Also effective Aug. 1, stop-loss orders are no longer allowed. Instead, brokerages are telling their clients they need to make two new "Sell Entry Orders," one that sells higher than the original buy order and one that sells lower than the original buy order. The new Sell Entry Orders have nothing to do with the original buy order.

Here's the rub. ...

Since these are both entry orders, there is a chance that both orders could be triggered if the market moves up and down quickly, resulting in the original buy order being closed but a new short order being opened. Stop-loss orders were always linked to buy orders. These new orders are not linked to any existing order because the new rule forbids that. Very weird and dangerous.

Another significant change is OCO orders. Joe buys at current price and sets up his stop-loss and profit target trades to exit. With OCO, one order cancels another order. So, if the stop-loss is executed before the profit trade, the profit trade order is automatically canceled. If the profit trade is executed before the stop-loss, the stop-loss order is automatically canceled.

The NFA says, nope, you can't do this any more ... to retail customers.

It would seem that the simple handling here, if you really want to continue trading the forex, is to move your account to a European brokerage and use stop-losses and profit targets.

I Have a Better Idea

Better yet, get out of the forex market altogether and trade the Currency Pairs Futures executing on the Chicago Mercantile Exchange (CME). Futures allow retail customers to enter stop-losses, OCO orders, etc.

One can only assume that the purpose of all these "new features" is to get rid of retail customers and just have institutions trading the forex as it was originally designed. Had it not been for the millions spent on advertising, only institutions would be trading forex today.

As a result of these new regulations, chances are that the trading volume in the futures market will pick up significantly. Many traders do not like having their accounts overseas. and they definitely want to trade with stop-losses and OCO orders.

Bottom line ... we can all hope that the number of forex commercials slows down dramatically with the NFA's new rules. But, God forbid, they start advertising futures trading. Fortunately, you rarely ever see "trade futures" commercials.

If you're ready to jump ship from the forex markets and/or get started in futures, there are plenty of profits for all of us, and without all those crazy new rules!

Barbara Cohen
The Tycoon Report
http://images.tycoonresearch.com/images/spacer.gif
  • #413
  • Aug 3, 2009 5:46pm Aug 3, 2009 5:46pm
We should ALL protest to the National Futures Association (NFA) for deliberately driving the retail speculators away from the largest free market, the Forex
  • #414
  • Aug 3, 2009 6:29pm Aug 3, 2009 6:29pm
Seems that each broker interprets the ruling differently. My broker said that a stop order is not the same as a SL or TP on an individual trade. They still allow SL and TP on individual trades without affecting earlier trades. They also still allow manual closing of newer trades without affecting older trades. FIFO comes into play with them if you place a market order opposite of an existing position.
  • #415
  • Aug 3, 2009 6:33pm Aug 3, 2009 6:33pm
Quoting deuce
Seems that each broker interprets the ruling differently. My broker said that a stop order is not the same as a SL or TP on an individual trade. They still allow SL and TP on individual trades without affecting earlier trades. They also still allow manual closing of newer trades without affecting older trades. FIFO comes into play with them if you place a market order opposite of an existing position.
Deuce, did you say you trade with Oanda?
  • #416
  • Aug 3, 2009 6:42pm Aug 3, 2009 6:42pm
Yes I do. It's easy enough to test what I'm saying by opening an FXGame account and placing random trades. I trade a modified grid strategy. My system won't work if I cannot close newer trades either manually or with TP.
  • #417
  • Aug 3, 2009 6:46pm Aug 3, 2009 6:46pm
Quoting deuce
Yes I do. It's easy enough to test what I'm saying by opening an FXGame account and placing random trades. I trade a modified grid strategy. My system won't work if I cannot close newer trades either manually or with TP.
Thank you, I will open an FXGame account and check them out.

Apparently FXCM has given up.
  • #418
  • Aug 3, 2009 6:56pm Aug 3, 2009 6:56pm
Quoting ddaytrader
Thank you, I will open an FXGame account and check them out.

Apparently FXCM has given up.

You're welcome. Please let us know the results of your tests. I have been using them for several years and my management of open trades has not changed with this new ruling. The only negative some people have with them is the max leverage is 50:1. Not a problem if you are a serious trader with sufficient capital. Big problem if you treat forex like a casino.
  • #419
  • Aug 3, 2009 7:19pm Aug 3, 2009 7:19pm
Quoting deuce
You're welcome. Please let us know the results of your tests. I have been using them for several years and my management of open trades has not changed with this new ruling. The only negative some people have with them is the max leverage is 50:1. Not a problem if you are a serious trader with sufficient capital. Big problem if you treat forex like a casino.

I'll let you know how it goes for me. 50:1 should not be a problem as I usually use a very small percent of my available margin.
  • #420
  • Aug 4, 2009 9:35am Aug 4, 2009 9:35am
Quoting Bartol8
[font=verdana,arial,sans-serif][size=2][color=#333333]Forex ... Hasta La Vista Baby[font=verdana]

[font=verdana]If you're like me and spend any time watching financial news networks, you have been subjected to thousands of forex (FX, or foreign exchange/currency market) commercials.

[size=2][font=verdana,arial,sans-serif][color=#333333]"Learn...

I've never read a more mis-informed article in my life. OCO orders are what replace traditional stops and limits, OCO's aren't being eliminated.
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