C4 Scalping | Page 218 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

scalping strategy 31 replies

Trying scalping with a 1000 bucks - Scalping is expensive! 39 replies

Scalping PIPs? 5 replies

1M & 5M Scalping System (Scalping Paradise) 21 replies

Scalping 100 pips?! 3 replies

Attachments: C4 Scalping
Exit Attachments

C4 Scalping

  • #4,341
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:07am Aug 1, 2009 10:07am
100% agree with this statement. All comes down to money management.

However, getting 2% return per day on millons of dollars probably becomes a little unreasonable. You would have to deal with incomplete Fills, Slips and seeing 20,000 dollars vanish on a bad trade would probabaly give most people heart attacks.

*shrug*

All guess work of course. I just want to pay the bills




Quoting 4xStar
Isn't is interesting how some snakes slither away from their own gardens just to try to disrupt others for no apparant reason other than ... perhaps...jealousy?

The % increase per day also depends on the SIZE of the account....
  • #4,342
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:08am Aug 1, 2009 10:08am
4XStar I didn't say it's impossible.. Just for me now it isn't
Also I want you to to take this into consideration:

If now I have account $5k it's, ok for me to trade let's say 2 micro
lots which is $2 per pip.. But, If I load up $300k into the Forex acc
It's absolutely doesn't mean that I would start trading amounts like
$100 per pip.., no way... Do I feel safe and sleep well to having a
stock portfolio $300k, - absolutely, cause I don't care min to min
movements.. I'll probably trade max $10 a pip (scalping) and, if
Dollar goes to $1.35/EURO (if Ever), then I feel absolutely confident to SHORT the
heck out of it, I can even bet my house on it.. But this is not trading
more likely just buy low sell high.. Again it's just me, you feel comfortable
trading $100 per pip it's ok with me and I'm doesn't..
And yes 2% possible maybe even 20% a day possible but it just means
that loss 10% or the same amount is also possible, all depends on your risk tolerance.
I want to see those people with the $1000 accounts how they will
feel and how it will affect their trading ability to put $1k a pip on the line..
Talking and doing it 2 different thing. Try to buy a $100k worth of
stock on the bottom when everybody selling, you know what I mean..
Viewer Discretion Advised: Shall we shag now or should we shag later? :-)
  • #4,343
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:11am Aug 1, 2009 10:11am
Quoting gbppip
RISK should be fixed.

As you correctly stated, 2% of $50k, is $1k.

RISK = STOP LOSS * POSITION SIZE.

I would not lose more than 10 pips in any trade.

$1,000 = 10 * POSITION SIZE

100 = POSITION SIZE

If you can make 50 pips on a steady basis, then you can make $5k a day without an increase in risk.
And if your max dd is 30 pips, you reduce position size accordingly.

How your acct grows depends on your max risk tolerance and the avg amount of pips you can consistently make each day. The % growth may vary or not, depends on how you want to play it
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #4,344
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:15am Aug 1, 2009 10:15am
Quoting luckylady
... I do though resent being called a liar whoever its from, and although a long time trader gets a lot of respect from me, I would expect the same courtesy back.

DXTrade, please come back and continue with your posts, you have contributed a lot here and it was 1 person that called Cobra a clown not all of us.
Yes, even the most respected trader can lose respect if they go on the attack against others just because they disagree.

DXT, stick around ...better things are coming, I am certain...
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #4,345
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:24am Aug 1, 2009 10:24am
Quoting studbiol
Ok - GAME OVER


Attachment

1. trade = + 44 pips
2. trade = + 148 pips

Sorry Edge, this is no scalping but:

If you can collect pips - just do it !
Hi Studbiol, would like to send you a message if you don't mind??? this is regarding your chart.
  • #4,346
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:26am Aug 1, 2009 10:26am
Quoting Chasem
100% agree with this statement. All comes down to money management.

However, getting 2% return per day on millons of dollars probably becomes a little unreasonable. You would have to deal with incomplete Fills, Slips and seeing 20,000 dollars vanish on a bad trade would probabaly give most people heart attacks.

*shrug*

All guess work of course. I just want to pay the bills
If you are trading millions of dollars then you would not be trading on a retail broker platform.
  • #4,347
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:29am Aug 1, 2009 10:29am
Quoting SkyzerFX
I want to see those people with the $1000 accounts how they will
feel and how it will affect their trading ability to put $1k a pip on the line..
Talking and doing it 2 different thing. Try to buy a $100k worth of
stock on the bottom when everybody selling, you know what I mean..
Luckily the trader that introduced me to forex (I knew him well beforehand) didn't have such reservations, so didn't pass them onto me. He has been there and done it, so I know it can be done. He took an account from Ģ1,500 to very very large by getting an average of 2% a day UNTIL the account was at a point he needed it to be to get a very nice income from forex on 2% a day. He still trades at the same risk he did when the account was small the only difference is, he no longer compounds the funds, he withdraws them. He still has a stop loss of 20 pips and has been successfully scalping and getting 20 pips on average daily so he can withdraw his very nice wages. That doesn't take him very long in an average day in front of his computer, but personally I wouldn't care if I had to sit there 10 hours a day to do the same thing, its worth it. Thats why I KNOW it can be done and thats why its my target.
  • #4,348
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:31am Aug 1, 2009 10:31am
Quoting luckylady
Luckily the trader that introduced me to forex (I knew him well beforehand) didn't have such reservations, so didn't pass them onto me....
Ditto, I have a friend that trades SERIOUS volume per day, so I figure if he can do it... I can do it
  • #4,349
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:32am Aug 1, 2009 10:32am
Quoting 4xStar
And if your max dd is 30 pips, you reduce position size accordingly.

How your acct grows depends on your max risk tolerance and the avg amount of pips you can consistently make each day. The % growth may vary or not, depends on how you want to play it
Please explain in detail or formula how RISK TOLERANCE affects account growth. I do not understand your proclamation.

I can make up 10 pips faster that I can make up 30 pips. Yes, three 10 pip losses is 30 pips. But I would rather lose 10 pips 3 times in a row, then lose 30 pips all at once.
  • #4,350
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:35am Aug 1, 2009 10:35am
Quoting Pipo
Here is a simulator for C4 traders to get your screen time up to speed.
Just install it as per pdf instraction it is really easy.
Re-open your MT4 open the strategy tester the select M5 period, the currency and visual mode then start.
While running put your indicators or template on it will take pretty much any thing except MTFs. indicators/
You can set it to the speed you like and pause if you like the enter or exit a trade. It also does display your profit and losses.
I usually just let it run and eye ball my entries and exit to get a feel for...
Awesome!
I am going to try it out this weekend.
Thanks,
4XTrader2
  • #4,351
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:36am Aug 1, 2009 10:36am
Problem with fixed STOP LOSS and TAKE PROFIT as I see it

let say I bought GU (I have 4 pips spread) means I already
4 pips down + 1 brick downside 10 pips already 14 pips SL
and that's probably too low.. ok let's say 20 pips SL

Do you realize, if you set 5 pips TP, that means to stay just even
you must have 4 wins and only 1 loss, so 75% of Winning
results must be in place to just be on the money.. And
whatever is over 75% is your profit - do this looks like easy task?
Possible? Of course. That's why 80% of the people will lose money
and other champs who can do better than 75% will make it..
Of course you can adjust those SL/TP but 10 pips is out of the question,
too low.. So? What are you say? What is reasonable SL/TP
and what's your success figures?
Viewer Discretion Advised: Shall we shag now or should we shag later? :-)
  • #4,352
  • Edited 10:53am Aug 1, 2009 10:39am | Edited 10:53am
It has already been said, "those who insist something is impossible are always being interrupted by those doing it." I once had a friend who started a business with almost no money and no business experience and made very good money. When I asked how he did it, he said, "I was too stupid to know it couldn't be done, so I did it." Lots of truth in that.

Look to Jacko's thread. He has already proven that very high returns are possible on a very consistent basis, in live trading posting his entries and exits over a year or so, and went from trading one standard lot to an amount that would shock the nattering na-bobs of negativity.

He's not the only one. EOHater's thread is pretty strong, and they gain some major pips DAILY. I think it averages something well over 100 pips per day and EOHater, last time I checked was trading several standard lots.

These two are not alone. There are many who do much more than a 2% return per day consistently. The fact that one can't do it personally, does NOT mean it can't be done and done consistently.

The argument is really mute. The issue is more psychological than practical. Those who choose to believe something is possible, usually achieve it.

Lasers were pure "science fiction" just 50 years ago, now the military has one that can take down missiles in flight a couple of hundred miles away. Space flight was just a flight of fancy for decades, pretty common now. Traveling at speeds in excess of the speed of sound used to be thought impossible. Now it's a military standard.

The 4 minute mile was thought to be impossible when they were trying to crack the 5 minute mile. Now runners regularly beat 4 minutes and scientists are coming to the conclusion that "mindset" is the only real barrier there.

There is literally NO field where the following doesn't apply. "If you can hold it in your mind, you can hold it in your hand."

Why should people be limited to trading styles and practices that keep them from surpassing 2% per day? The "holy grail" is "your" or "me" and how we choose to believe and apply our efforts to ANY field of endeavor.

Should I go on and on about all the things that were "impossible" that are now every day events, heart transplants, organ transplants in general, surviving cancer (and by the way, physicians in that field will tell you that mental attitude has a tremendous amount to do with beating that), personal computing is now common place when it was thought early on that it would be impossible to make the PC small enough or cheap enough for "normal" people to own one.

Second and last post I'll make on this issue.

For those who choose to believe it possible, keep at it. You WILL make it. For those of you who choose not to believe, you're right, and you will never make it.

By the way, Alan Andrews, trading STOCKS in (if I remember correctly) about 1915 or so made his first MILLION in a year at the challenging of his father and invented the Andrews Pitchfork method doing it. Ultimately he made over $50,000,000.00 (the amount might be off a bit) and Babson did even better before Andrews came along.

Soros made 1 BILLION in ONE DAY doing this sort of thing. Oh, and there are others who have done similar things.

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/forex/08/greatest-currency-trades.asp

Of one trader who shorted the KIWI, there is a "rumor" in that article that his short exceeded the money supply of New Zealand. Even the NZ government got involved to stop him. How's that for something "impossible" to do?

There is NOTHING impossible unless you believe it is impossible,,, for you.

Clay
  • #4,353
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:42am Aug 1, 2009 10:42am
Quoting Tw0eleven
Hi Studbiol, would like to send you a message if you don't mind??? this is regarding your chart.

Hi Tw0eleven,

I donīt mind. As Iīm a new user I donīt know how to do. Please tell me.

Regards
CG
If there are pips you can collect - just do it!
  • #4,354
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:46am Aug 1, 2009 10:46am
Quoting eclayf
There is NOTHING impossible unless you believe it is impossible,,, for you.
Clay
Clay thanks, nice speech, but I just asked what
most people on this thread
using for their SL/TP?

20 to 5 sounds fair?
Viewer Discretion Advised: Shall we shag now or should we shag later? :-)
  • #4,355
  • Aug 1, 2009 10:50am Aug 1, 2009 10:50am
Quoting cobraforex

This thread is one of the reasons why I get retired from posting in public threads, to many PMs that I receive from people that got wrecked down from these holy grails and asking for help.

It makes me mad to see results of more than 70% in only 48 hours, that's just .

Good luck to anybody, you'll need it.




[/quote]

Am not exactly sure, but I think this is the catalyst for Cobra's posting. As a German, both Cobra and Swingman set forth postings that might need a to be looked at a bit closer.

The 2% daily goal is easily achievable and Cobra well knows this. His own thread has a bit more aggressive strategy more in line with that of a swing trade. As such, by using a simple base set of indicators, and having faith in those indicators, you simply start trading your plan with abandon. Learning not to over-trade and simply being an adrenaline junkie is another matter. Lack of discipline is not conducive to good trading efforts.

It is not up to myself or anyone else here to tell a trader how to use MM prudently. If you cannot practice decent MM in your trading efforts, the trading plan is pointless. You are 'primed' to fail, you will fail and you should fail.

That said, the comment about 70+% in a short period of time is well noted. This thread has NEVER promoted trading (over-trading) to such an extent nor will it ever. It is quite different trading at $1 levels and increasing to $10 levels. The mental adjustment alone is going to be formidable. You will see for yourself and you need not trust me on this.

Personally, it does not matter to me at all which thread one chooses to frequent. I also no not care which trading plan an individual chooses to trade. I only care that they apply their efforts in a focused effort in order to ascertain plan viability with regard to their own trading psyche. Simply stated, if the plan annoys or confuses, why trade it?

So, am going to issue a professional 'pass' on this as he is quite correct that ANYONE who even attempts to trade at a level that tries to achieve +70% in 48 hours is foolish. Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Nope. Besides that, I do not think TG was promoting that possibility as much as simply reporting a result.

One of the goals of this thread is to learn if you have the capability to 'Trade To Live'. As long as you struggle with the 'Live To Trade' concept, with the obvious inherent issues attached to such, you will not reach many goals imho.

In a subsequent posting by Cobra, he asks if there is anyone trading 'serious' money in this plan, or something to that effect. While I am not going to speculate on his definition of 'serious' money, I will say that anything above a $1 level at this time is most likely a poor decision. As everyones is well aware, the thread is only three (3) weeks young. It takes quite a few trades over a bit longer period of time to get really proficient at trading the methodology (C4 or Nitro) according to its design!!!

Less is more, get proficient and consistent and get out of the trains path. Go looking for trouble and you will have no problem finding it.

Regards.
  • #4,356
  • Aug 1, 2009 11:01am Aug 1, 2009 11:01am
Quoting SkyzerFX
Clay thanks, nice speech,
Hi SkyzerFX. Don't take that post personally. Wasn't aimed at you specifically. Just got tired of so many who say that sort of thing is all.

YES, you are correct on the SL and TP for this strategy. Originally Edge said 20 SL and 10 TP, but he has evidently edited that on page 1 now to be 5 pips TP. Personally I still use 10, and have even tested 15 and 20.

If one learns to filter their trades and avoid most of the fakeout signals (not that hard to do by the way) using a slightly larger TP shouldn't be much of an issue.

Price Action can help a lot with all this, as Edge said in post 1.

God bless Skyzer,
Clay
  • #4,357
  • Aug 1, 2009 11:01am Aug 1, 2009 11:01am
Quoting luckylady
Luckily the trader that introduced me to forex (I knew him well beforehand) didn't have such reservations, so didn't pass them onto me. He has been there and done it, so I know it can be done. [b][i][size=3]He took an account from Ģ1,500 to very very large by getting an average of 2% a day UNTIL the account was at a point he needed it to be to get a very nice income from forex on 2% a day. He still trades at the same risk he did when the account was small the only difference is, he no longer compounds the funds, he withdraws them. He still has a...
Now there is a person I want to sit with, have dinner and a beer, and just shoot the bull with.

You go to work, you get the job done, and you leave the office as fast as possible. I intensely dislike a live to trade philosophy.

Good posting and Thanks. It is best to read between the lines with Cobra at times.

Regards.
  • #4,358
  • Aug 1, 2009 11:07am Aug 1, 2009 11:07am
"Winning trades are better than losing ones.
A lot better!"

According to Mark Douglas, it requires no skill to get into a winning trade.

The only skill you can apply is being disciplined to exit at your stop. You do not know ahead of time if your trade is going to be a winner. You can not make a trade a winning trade. You can contain losses. If you are lucky enough to have the market give you an opportunity to book profit, it is imperative that you realize this event has nothing to do with you.

Losing trades, that occurred at your stop loss, are the best trades because those are the trades that prevented disaster.
  • #4,359
  • Aug 1, 2009 11:10am Aug 1, 2009 11:10am
"SIMPLICITY - The single most difficult trading concept to wrap your mind around !!"

I would expand this to:

"SIMPLICITY - The single most difficult LIFE concept to wrap your mind around !!"

I think Franciscan friar William of Ockham, Henry David Thoreau and Benjamin Franklin would concur.
  • #4,360
  • Aug 1, 2009 11:15am Aug 1, 2009 11:15am
Quoting eclayf
Hi SkyzerFX. Don't take that post personally. Wasn't aimed at you specifically. Just got tired of so many who say that sort of thing is all.

YES, you are correct on the SL and TP for this strategy. Originally Edge said 20 SL and 10 TP, but he has evidently edited that on page 1 now to be 5 pips TP. Personally I still use 10, and have even tested 15 and 20.

If one learns to filter their trades and avoid most of the fakeout signals (not that hard to do by the way) using a slightly larger TP shouldn't be much of an issue.

Price Action can help...
It is the condescending attitudes of many that self limit their capabilities. Goes over many peoples heads as they continue to seek and do battle with negativity.

As a bit of clarification on another statement, the +10 level was for the initial work wrapped under the guise of 'M80' explosive. It was provided to thread followers as a general guide to trading the method initially.

C4 was a progression whereas, should they actually develop faith in the methodology at +10 TP level, they could then achieve a very good level of mental trading comfort by trading the same plan for less pips. If they were hitting M80 at 70%, they would indeed hit C4 at a higher strike rate. This aspect is already proven but only a few are actually trading it as designed.

Nitro is what it is. Traded appropriately it is well suited as a trading vehicle for those who wish to trade as a business.

Good postings Clay, not challenging anything at all. Just wanted to clarify the front page edit as the thread seems well beyond the initial M80 phase.

Highest Regards.
1 trader viewing now