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C4 Scalping

  • #4,281
  • Aug 1, 2009 12:11am Aug 1, 2009 12:11am
Looks nice. What indicator is it.

Thanks.


Quoting harar
I was playing with the setting of an indicator and i came up with this combination. Looks promising especially that these arrows do not repaint because they are drawn after the candle(bar) close.
  • #4,282
  • Aug 1, 2009 12:16am Aug 1, 2009 12:16am
This is my first post in this thread. I'll be as direct as possible.

First, thanks to Edge for his groundbreaking work on presenting a simple, effective pair of ideas for trading / scalping the FX markets. Props for sharing and moreso for pointing people in the direction of "how to do it" themselves.

There are detractors here. I don't intend to be one, just injecting a bit of reality into the thread. Edge broke down the salient points a bit differently with his C4 analogy (detonator/primer/plunger) but I've picked out some slightly different things I want to emphasize. The valueable nuggets I've gotten from this thread include:

1) You need a system (such as Nitro/C4) that defines a trend. I'm going to demystify the word "trend". It really means STRAIGHT MOVE. There, the cat is out of the bag. Renko is useful in VISUALLY seeing straight moves by defining a move in uniform blocks and filtering out extraneous moves that don't meet the strict criteria. Renko's weakness is that it can also be visually misleading when it comes to putting system rules into practice. A charting method is not a holy grail. Never has been never will be.

2) Market selection is very important. You want to match up your system to a market or markets that show the most straight move tendencies (trend) based on your system's definition. There are better choices and worse choices of markets and which one(s) is chosen can greatly affect your bottom line results.

3) You can use a bunch of indicators or just one or none at all for confirmation. The higher the quality the confirmation, the better your trend signals will be. (For that matter, the higher the quality of your trend signal, all the better your results.) But (indicator) confirmation is probably the least important point, yet most obsessed over point by most traders.

4) The actual trade logic or system logic is very key to how your strategy will perform. Things like profit targets, stop losses, trailing stops (AKA money management), as well as pure system logic such as: rules for holding a winner based on things like speed/acceleration, contingency plans, times to trade, what to do about news, etc., can GREATLY impact your system's performance. With system logic there is good/better/best, and even crappy. You have to test to know which is which.

5) After you put all the pieces together, you do some forward testing BEFORE drawing conclusions. Forward testing on a demo account or designing it into an EA and watching how it performs walking forward is a valuable exercise to understand the ins and outs as well as the strengths/liabilities of your strategy. And for tuning up the system logic from crappy to good/better/best.

6) Drama in threads like these does not add to your bottom line. Enough said.

7) It is possible to be up to date on a thread only to see 15+ new pages added within 24 hours. Unbelievable!

8) 25% mechanical and 75% due to trader discretion - is talked about ad nauseum on this and other threads but bottom line is this: it's an excuse for a subpar system. Unless you happen to be a genius trader and your discretion is fantasitc and +ev. I'm not and my discretion isn't, so I need solid and tested system logic that can be 100% automated.

All That being said, I've seen a lot of different postings containing results. Backtests are not holy grails. They give an idea of what MIGHT be possible. Some of the backtests posted seem too good to be true. They ARE unfortunately. There is no 100% win system, nor do we need one. Tradestation is well known (among old time users) for having certain backtesting bugs that can be taken advantage of (whether knowingly or unknowingly) to produce eye-popping results, like 100% win systems. Add Renko charting to the mix where the rules state the bar has to meet the 10 pip threshold BEFORE it is drawn (ensuring the profit target is hit every time using hindsight) and we have the conditions for backtests that far outperform forward tests or actual trading. Like 100% win rates. That's why we forward test to get a feel then dip in slowly with live trading when forward testing shows positive signs over a significant period of testing and conditions. We build up a history forward testing in case a system is just hitting a hot streak due to luck. When a strategy is really good, you can tell right away by implementing it on a demo account and proving it.
  • #4,283
  • Aug 1, 2009 12:18am Aug 1, 2009 12:18am
K.I.S.S., edge say simple, so simplified. I like it, it worked for me, but you do have to pay attention to pa

Quoting cgforex
Not to bad..I'll have to give a go...I see from your chart your no longer using the Super Trix MT4 (15 Min) or the SM Trix with setting 6 to use as a filter....Why did you go away from this?
  • #4,284
  • Aug 1, 2009 12:19am Aug 1, 2009 12:19am
Quoting DXTrade
And because it's the weekend and you've got nothing to do except getting in trouble with your wife because you are glued to your screen even on Saturday here we go for the EA freaks.

Attached is an EA which is trading exactly C4 (at least I think)
You need the included Indicator as well. It's just the smSuper v2 renamed.
Thanks heaps Swingman... I needed this one for my EA
Hope you at least read a bit here sometimes... at least the interesting posts.

I wanted to hide the TP settings and make them +5 for everybody to force you with a +5 profit.
But...
Thanks! Very Nice. Will test it out next week.
  • #4,285
  • Aug 1, 2009 12:19am Aug 1, 2009 12:19am
I would like to say a very big thankyou to Edge and other regular posters who have contributed significantly to this forum. The learnings I have made have been considerable and are due to the efforts of these few. The approach taken to educate, encourage, and support discovery based learning shows a degree of educational professionalism (apart from obvious trading prowess and a fairly decent dose of human decency) that deserves respect, something missing from many in recent days.

After two weeks I am trading profitably off nitro and can't believe how easy it is which is what the intent of this forum is. The move from trend chasing to short term profit taking with high expectancy was a critical mind shift for me.

Simply let the price cross the line, watch some colours change, watch some arrows appear, let the block close, press enter and most times take the money. Its that simple.

I am using TG's SSC overlaid on a single Trix line and is it appears to be working well as a filter to avoid small reversals. Quite frankly they are not needed with Nitro but its a remaining security blanket that will hopefully go soon.

Again thank you to Edge and others. Your desire to help others and contribute back to our various communities is recognised.

kinds regards

Peter
  • #4,286
  • Aug 1, 2009 12:22am Aug 1, 2009 12:22am
I've been trying to call SM's Renko indicator to get the arrow value for the previous bar with iCustom but I'm having trouble. Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong?

double arrow = 0;
string x=" ";
arrow = iCustom(NULL,0,"smrs",x,true,true,true,false,true,false,10,20,x,true,x,8,3,x,6,5000,x,false,false,false,0,1);

Thanks!
  • #4,287
  • Aug 1, 2009 12:34am Aug 1, 2009 12:34am
Quoting Mindsphere
I've been trying to call SM's Renko indicator to get the arrow value for the previous bar with iCustom but I'm having trouble. Can anyone see what I'm doing wrong?

double arrow = 0;
string x=" ";
arrow = iCustom(NULL,0,"smrs",x,true,true,true,false,true,false,10,20,x,true,x,8,3,x,6,5000,x,false,false,false,0,1);

Thanks!
Try to leave the shift at the end but get rid of this part: 5000,x,false,false,false,0
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #4,288
  • Aug 1, 2009 12:39am Aug 1, 2009 12:39am
Quoting DXTrade
Try to leave the shift at the end but get rid of this part: 5000,x,false,false,false,0
Hmm, tried that with no luck. Gives a 0 value. Any more ideas? :/

Also, why would you not specify those other parameters? It seems like you need to specify all of them, according to the iCustom function.
  • #4,289
  • Aug 1, 2009 1:03am Aug 1, 2009 1:03am
Quoting Mindsphere
Hmm, tried that with no luck. Gives a 0 value. Any more ideas? :/

Also, why would you not specify those other parameters? It seems like you need to specify all of them, according to the iCustom function.
Then try either this:
iCustom(NULL,0,"smrs",x,true,true,true,false,true,false,10,20,x,x,true,x ,8,3,x,6,5000,x,false,false,false,0,1);

or this:

iCustom(NULL,0,"smrs",x,true,true,true,false,true,false,10,20,x,x,true,x ,8,3,x,6,1);
"The only successful substitute for brains is silence."
  • #4,290
  • Edited 1:30am Aug 1, 2009 1:16am | Edited 1:30am
Thought I'd post something for all the newbies to see and give them some hope. I have not been consistent with any "strategy" yet, and certainly not at this level. I have been researching for over a year (chump change in time compared to some) and have had some good streaks and some bad ones.

There was only one other strategy that approaced this level of consistency for any period of time, but it was very "market specific" and when the market changed, it quit working and I quit gaining and gave back every gain I had.

I have only been testing this for about a week and a half and have traded at this level pretty consistently from day one. SO, I got excited about it, created a fresh mini account with a broker and started tracking trades that are exclusive to the basic C4 5 min strategy.

I did make a couple of small tweaks, but you can find those from the statement, and the scripts I posted earlier. Tweaks NOT recommended as they increase the "equity risk" of the trades. But, I figured if this didn't break it, nothing would.

So, I traded at way above the recommended risk level, in OFF hours, and ONLY the basic system/ indicators.

This attachment is the results of the past few days (29th to 31st) results. But, based on all the other trades taken in an account that mixed the results of C4 with other strategies, I am convinced this will continue at this level of consistency.

I took the liberty of highlighting the trades where I actually let it go to TP or SL so you can see them clearly in the image for effect and I highlighted the % of successful trades at the bottom of the image of the account report. If I had not chickened out and let it run to TP each time this would have been a much higher % gain.

You should know that the ONLY trades where I got slapped were during NEWS when I knew I should get out anyway, and during an "off" time for Eur/Jpy that really slapped me hard. One of those "news" trades is in this statement, which dropped me from +16% to about 3%, then the next two trades got it almost all back. Within a very, very small fractional %.

With that said, Great job Edge. Extremely strong basic system, one you could hang your hat on and start earning a living even from a $100.00 account in a few short months.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Results 2009-07-31.jpg Size: 229 KB
  • #4,291
  • Aug 1, 2009 1:22am Aug 1, 2009 1:22am
Quoting DXTrade
As I wrote and explained with pictures attached: you can not backtest renko arrows as you don't know PA at this time. I enter AFTER the brick with arrow has closed (no repainting here) and take +5 with emergency SL 30
I close the very bad trades mostly never with more then 10-15 SL.
And - as well with charts attached - I showed yesterday that even if a brick after the arrow closes on the other side you can still make +5... NO BACKTESTING POSSIBLE!

You will NEVER have a 100% Indi-Expert-Trade Journal... EVER! ;-)
DX, just wondering - is there any particular reason you don't set a hard stop at 15 pips then?

Also, how often do you experience the "very bad trades" that take you down 10-15 pips?

Thanks,
JR
Be happy, be humble.
  • #4,292
  • Aug 1, 2009 1:37am Aug 1, 2009 1:37am
Hi folks,

When I drag the momentum indicator to Anne's indicator there is no input variable presented to choose "Apply to Close" or anything.

Also when I select momentum by inserting indicator, I get what is on the attachment. I don't see any "First Indicator's Data" or the "Previous Indicator's Data" option.

I know I'm not using Renko, but can anyone tell me why I don't have those options for the bog standard momentum indicator ?

My MT4 is v4 build 225

Thanks

Quoting TudorGirl

Setup the Renko chart with the TG-SSC with your favourite settings. Then go to Navigator->Indicators and DRAG onto the TG-SSC pane the built-in Momentum indy.

It will default to "Apply to Close", but change this to "First Indicator's Data". This will (or should!) then calculate the momentum (ie velocity) of the TG-SSC line.

Do this AGAIN but select [color=blue][b[color=blue][b]]"Previous...
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: momentum.jpg Size: 116 KB
  • #4,293
  • Aug 1, 2009 1:44am Aug 1, 2009 1:44am
Quoting ap2009
Hi folks,

When I drag the momentum indicator to Anne's indicator there is no input variable presented to choose "Apply to Close" or anything.

Also when I select momentum by inserting indicator, I get what is on the attachment. I don't see any "First Indicator's Data" or the "Previous Indicator's Data" option.

I know I'm not using Renko, but can anyone tell me why I don't have those options for the bog standard momentum indicator ?

My MT4 is v4 build 225

Thanks
Did you drag it on the main window or onto the separate indicator window? Yesterday i tried this and did get the options above but this was on the TGSync indicator window with a Renko chart above.

Fredella
  • #4,294
  • Aug 1, 2009 1:51am Aug 1, 2009 1:51am
Quoting ap2009
Hi folks,

When I drag the momentum indicator to Anne's indicator there is no input variable presented to choose "Apply to Close" or anything.

Also when I select momentum by inserting indicator, I get what is on the attachment. I don't see any "First Indicator's Data" or the "Previous Indicator's Data" option.

I know I'm not using Renko, but can anyone tell me why I don't have those options for the bog standard momentum indicator ?

My MT4 is v4 build 225

Thanks
From the Navigator, make sure you are using the Momentum indicator under "Indicators" and NOT under "Custom Indicators".
Drag it on to an existing indicator window and you will see the options to apply to "First Indicator's Data" etc.

I tried it on Build 225 successfully
  • #4,295
  • Edited 2:02am Aug 1, 2009 1:51am | Edited 2:02am
Quoting SkyzerFX
Exactly.. I just spend few moments of my time taking single
trade of her "EA" to investigate.. Anybody thinking that 75% profit
in 48 hours with confident is possible are simply brainless.
I don't think 2% daily is sustainable, based on reality..
Have a good weekend and pips of course next week.
Well I must be brainless then because I made more than she did. Risking 2 mini lots per $1,000 of balance (quite conservative I think because of the small stop loss) I made 410 pips in 48 hours per $1,000 of balance, thats $820 or 82% if my maths isn't too rusty. Gleneagles also made roughly the same amount of pips in 2 days as he posted yesterday, I'm not saying TG's statements are fact, I'm just saying it can be done manually.

I keep hearing a lot of people on this forum saying that 2% per day isn't achievable, and that is absolute rubbish, if I couldn't make 2% a day then I would give up. A very conservative trade on a $1,000 account scalping would be 1 mini lot per trade, to make 2% you would need to make an average of 20 pips per day. Yes some days you are going to have losses but other days make up for it and beyond.

To quote the large institutional traders figures of 15 - 20% per year to compare ourselves to is also ridiculous and I've seen well respected traders in this forum doing it. Institutional traders don't make 2% a day because they don't need to. They work entirely differently. They have a fund, that the number 1 priority is keeping those people happy. If 15% a year keeps those people happy (and it does...very happy) then they keep their funds in there, therefore, the fund managers make 2% a year just managing the funds. 2% a year on 100's of millions of $ is a lot of money. Why risk anything at all if you don't have to.

Its just as Edgetrader has stated over and over again, you treat it like a job, you go in, you make your money, you come out. Thats where the majority of traders go wrong, they stay in afterwards, they try something new, they add another indicator even though the one they were using works fine, in other words they don't discipline themselves.

All the trying something new and practise should be done either on a demo, or a tiny micro account that is there solely for testing purposes, then when you get to your live account you should be proficient at your job, just like any other.
  • #4,296
  • Aug 1, 2009 1:58am Aug 1, 2009 1:58am
I don’t know if any of you realise that a renko brick starts its first brick from the very first candle in your data history so an entry on one chart could be no entry on another it depends from the seed number of the first brick it has been build on. For a trend it wouldn’t matter as it can only be out by one brick put for scalping you may be waiting to push the plunger where as some one else is already backing up with mission accomplished. At the end it doesn’t matter because if you stay consistent with your plan you have the same level success as the other trader as it works vice versa.With that in mind one can put up a grid spaced at 10pips on any timeframe , starting from a random position and has the same success. And Why is that? Simple- Primer, Detonator BOOM 5pips thank you man!
I just like to compare a renko and a C4 chart where Renko is in a consolidating at the closing ours of the market where as the C4 is still blasting happily away .
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: take1.gif Size: 21 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: take2.gif Size: 14 KB
  • #4,297
  • Aug 1, 2009 2:13am Aug 1, 2009 2:13am
Quoting DXTrade
Then try either this:
iCustom(NULL,0,"smrs",x,true,true,true,false,true,false,10,20,x,x,true,x ,8,3,x,6,5000,x,false,false,false,0,1);

or this:

iCustom(NULL,0,"smrs",x,true,true,true,false,true,false,10,20,x,x,true,x ,8,3,x,6,1);
Thanks DX, what worked in the end was this:

iCustom(NULL,0,"smrs",10,20,8,3,6,ARROWBUFFER,TIMEPERIOD)

Where arrowbuffer is 3 or 4 for up or down. Though that actually gives the price value of the arrow. Still, definitely workable
  • #4,298
  • Aug 1, 2009 2:13am Aug 1, 2009 2:13am
Quoting harar
I was playing with the setting of an indicator and i came up with this combination. Looks promising especially that these arrows do not repaint because they are drawn after the candle(bar) close.
What indicator are you working with there harar? Looks impressive!

Hmm.. smC4Scalper Signals_V1? When was that posted? Can someone repost?
  • #4,299
  • Aug 1, 2009 2:51am Aug 1, 2009 2:51am
I keep hearing a lot of people on this forum saying that 2% per day isn't achievable, and that is absolute rubbish, if I couldn't make 2% a day then I would give up. A very conservative trade on a $1,000 account scalping would be 1 mini lot per trade, to make 2% you would need to make an average of 20 pips per day. Yes some days you are going to have losses but other days make up for it and beyond.




All the trying something new and practise should be done either on a demo, or a tiny micro account that is there solely for testing purposes, then when you get to your live account you should be proficient at your job, just like any other.[/quote]


luckylady,

This is one of the very few sensible posts I had to wade through to catch up.

1) Clear focus
2) Realistic goal
3) Consistency
4) Discipline
5) Determination

All put together to form a trading plan.

Amazing, how simple it can be..right?

You are on your way to be a successful trader, you have jumped the first hurdle and whilst the debate rages on around you...just get on with the job of making a very good living by not taking your eye of the ball.

Good luck with the trading.
" Never let the past hold the future to ransom "
  • #4,300
  • Aug 1, 2009 3:18am Aug 1, 2009 3:18am
Quoting Gleneagles
Quote
I keep hearing a lot of people on this forum saying that 2% per day isn't achievable, and that is absolute rubbish, if I couldn't make 2% a day then I would give up....


luckylady,

This is one of the very few sensible posts I had to wade through to catch up.

1) Clear focus
2) Realistic goal
3) Consistency
4) Discipline
5) Determination

All put together to form a trading plan.

Amazing, how simple it can be..right?

You are on your way to be a successful trader, you have jumped the first hurdle and whilst the debate rages on around you...just get on with the job of making a very good living by not taking your eye of the ball.

Good luck with the trading.
Thank you for the good wishes and the comments Gleneagles, much appreciated
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