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C4 Scalping

  • #2,521
  • Jul 25, 2009 8:04am Jul 25, 2009 8:04am
Quoting Jimmy Jones
...
My goal is to try and create something as mechanical as possible, with the least amount of discretion required, because frankly I am the weak link in my trading right now, and the less of my involvement in trade to trade decisions, the better...
I hear that!!! If I can just get past the last, greatest obstacle: ME, then with what Edge has taught us so far, I am home-free, baby!

PS where in Japan? I lived in Yokosuko for 8 months with daughter who is in the Navy. I loved it! And I miss it...
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #2,522
  • Jul 25, 2009 8:07am Jul 25, 2009 8:07am
Quoting Jimmy Jones
I don't think you can "know" when it's about to cross. From the few hours I watched Renko charts on Friday there was no price movement like you see with time based charts. Once price moved 10 pips above or below the last high/low, a new bar was painted, and the trix was what it was at that point. There is no movement whatsoever while the price is doing it's thing within the 18 odd pips range before it reaches the 10 needed to paint a new bar.
On my renko charts, there is plenty of movement while waiting for a new bar to form .. the verticle line goes up and down as price flutuates but only paints a new bar when it has hit the target price above or below the last bar. Yours doesn't do that?
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #2,523
  • Jul 25, 2009 8:17am Jul 25, 2009 8:17am
Quoting 4xStar
On my renko charts, there is plenty of movement while waiting for a new bar to form .. the verticle line goes up and down as price flutuates but only paints a new bar when it has hit the target price above or below the last bar. Yours doesn't do that?
To be honest I did not notice it, but also it was into the last hours of Friday, and at one point my data feed had quit working, so maybe by the time I got it back up the movement was so little that I just did not notice it.

I like in Fukushima prefecture, about 4 hours bus ride and then 30 minute train ride from Tokyo. North of Tokyo. Lot's of great things about Japan, the best being the level of respect everyone has for everyone else. After being here over a year it's become quite apparent to me how arrogant and self centered many Americans can be (me included). Oh yeah, it's super safe here to, I love not having to be overly worried about my family's safety when we go out.
  • #2,524
  • Jul 25, 2009 8:22am Jul 25, 2009 8:22am
Quoting Chris_B
Sorry for the misunderstanding...

I was not referencing at you when i told "10/15/30 pips"...but in general speaking...

I've quoted your post only to connect my post with the analysis of renko....


I've tried to trade like i said in my post last Friday...and i can tell you that i can suppose what the TRIX will do... i see where is the last renko candle, i see where is the closing price and i see the actual price...so i can suppose where (the price) a new candle will start...and if i watch TRIX i can suppose if it will cross...
No worries, perhaps I misunderstood the intentions of your comments.

I have not seen Renko working in liquid market yet, so I have no idea how the risk / reward idea plays out. Also, your right, if the trix is actually following price before the next renko bar is painted, there is a good change you could jump the gun, so to speak, and push the plunger right before the train arrives hoping it's going too fast to stop and reverse direction without getting blown to smithereens...
  • #2,525
  • Jul 25, 2009 8:32am Jul 25, 2009 8:32am
Hello,

Can somebody help me setup Renkobars in Tradestation please.
Thanks,

Caz
  • #2,526
  • Jul 25, 2009 8:35am Jul 25, 2009 8:35am
Quoting TudorGirl
Hi Andy

This is a critical point. As I have said on a number of occasions, there are ONLY two sorts of indicator:

INTEGRATORS - which generally sit on the main chart (like moving averages etc). They integrate the price, ie, smooth it, but at the penalty of some lag.

DIFFERENTIATORS - which generally sit in a separate window (like RSI, CCI etc). The differentiate the price and hence oscillate around some value like...
Thanks Anne, I think I understand the difference. I used to think I was fairly intelligent but I'm starting to feel slightly inadequate as you appear to have a brain the size of a planet!

Am I correct in thinking that the diamonds in your Renko chart are there as a result of changes to the Renko code that you have implemented? If so, then I guess unless I can get a crash course in quadratic polynomial counting I'll just have to make do with plain old Renko!

Andy
  • #2,527
  • Jul 25, 2009 8:35am Jul 25, 2009 8:35am
Caz,

Can you tell me or email me the Renko ELD you got for Tradestation. I got one off their forum but not sure it is the best one.

I hope someone will post their set up here too as I only know how to import it and insert it.

thanks!
Rob

Great thread Edge!!
  • #2,528
  • Edited 9:30am Jul 25, 2009 8:43am | Edited 9:30am
Quoting TudorGirl

- hence my adapted Renko system. This system has no lag and does not repaint. I have high hopes for it!

But of course, if the "mathematics is useless for trading" camp are correct, then it probably won't work! LOL!

Anne
If astrophysicists (like you) can calculate the mathematics to get a man (or woman) to the moon, why not use it to optimise an indicator or design an expert adviser to implement the C4 scalping system?

I'm firmly in the "mathematics is valuable for trading" camp. If you choose not to make your enhanced Renko indicator or EA available to this thread, and it is commercially released, I will be first in the queue.

Thank you for all your contributions!

Neill
  • #2,529
  • Jul 25, 2009 8:43am Jul 25, 2009 8:43am
Quoting Longboat
Caz,

Can you tell me or email me the Renko ELD you got for Tradestation. I got one off their forum but not sure it is the best one.

I hope someone will post their set up here too as I only know how to import it and insert it.

thanks!
Rob

Great thread Edge!!
Hello Rob,

I´m new with tradestation, so what is a Renko ELD.
I´m only using standard indicators and some custom indicators from Netpicks.

Thanks,
Caz
  • #2,530
  • Jul 25, 2009 9:11am Jul 25, 2009 9:11am
Just so you guys know, I am using Ninjatrader, free GAIN feed for forex, and Renko bars add on that somebody coded (3rd party, was free). I believe Ninjatrader use C# (or C++ maybe) for it's indicator and strategy dev, so it might be a bit more robust option (free) when compared to Metatrader...
  • #2,531
  • Jul 25, 2009 9:19am Jul 25, 2009 9:19am
Lou,
You obviously don't understand Renko. I will answer some of your questions below to clarify:

Ian

Quoting Lou G
Hello Anne,

I've greatly enjoyed your postings to this thread and wonder if you might respond to a few questions - I would have sent you a PM but you are not available for that.

Is the Renko you use applied to Close, High/Low, or ATR?
- The question is meaningless, Renko is renko, it is not an indicator.

Why two minutes for Renko (as opposed to some other number)?
- It is not 2 minutes, there is no timeframe with Renko. So it can be any other number except for those which are Metatrader TimeFrames....
  • #2,532
  • Jul 25, 2009 9:22am Jul 25, 2009 9:22am
Quoting Andy B
Thanks Anne, I think I understand the difference. I used to think I was fairly intelligent but I'm starting to feel slightly inadequate as you appear to have a brain the size of a planet!

Am I correct in thinking that the diamonds in your Renko chart are there as a result of changes to the Renko code that you have implemented? If so, then I guess unless I can get a crash course in quadratic polynomial counting I'll just have to make do with plain old Renko!

Andy
Hi Andy

I am using a Renko add-on that was supplied to me by a little Hedge Fund I am consulting for (just writing them some code and stuff). So I cannot share the code as it is under a confidentiality agreement. Sorry!

I imagine that it works roughly the same as the commercial mqlservice script - how many ways could there be to do something so simple? But the devil is in the details, as always.

For example, as some of you have found, the offline charts can "freeze" even though the M1 driver chart is still happily ticking away. This could be absolutely lethal for our trading scheme and must be fixed before we go live. I have been through the source code of the script I have and tidied up the bug-lets. For example, it is important to locate the handle of the offline chart window which is what the Windows kernel uses to refresh the screen. I like to insert plenty of WindowsRefresh() calls to make sure that the chart is updated regularly - at least once per tick!!!

Because I want to compute velocity/acceleration/momentum on the raw tick data as it arrives, I built my "diamonds" code right into the Renko script itself. That way I should not suffer from lag.

I have no indicators whatever now. I don't think I need them (but I could be wrong!).

Anne
  • #2,533
  • Jul 25, 2009 9:23am Jul 25, 2009 9:23am
Quoting Jimmy Jones
He already shared an XLS of the trade station output for the trades.

...frankly I am the weak link in my trading right now, and the less of my involvement in trade to trade decisions, the better...
Edge's spreadsheet of the Tradestation output does not specify the currency symbols, nor does it give the start and finish dates. If it did, we would be able to compare them to our own charts and figure out what he did in more detail than is possible from the image of the chart he posted. I, for one, am not questioning his integrity and am also willing to do my own research and experimentation. A classical research technique is to redo an experiment done by others to see if you get the same results.

I would also like to minimise subjective decision-making by formulating appropriate rules for manual trading and using automated systems (EAs) which can react much faster than I can.
  • #2,534
  • Jul 25, 2009 9:24am Jul 25, 2009 9:24am
Quoting Lou G
Is there by chance anyone using the mqlservices Renko on MT4 under Linux/Wine? I have been running MT4 under Debian Linux/Wine since October 2008. By and large it works fine but there are a few little things that don't function as they should and I'd like to know in advance of spending some Euros for the source code.

Thanks,
Lou
Lou,
If you have an implementation of MT4 that doen't work properly, then there is no guarantee that the MQLService Renko script will work properly.
So perhaps you need to writ your own, ... after you have re-written Metatrader so it works properly on your Linux platform of course.

Ian
  • #2,535
  • Jul 25, 2009 9:25am Jul 25, 2009 9:25am
Quoting caz
Hello Rob,

I´m new with tradestation, so what is a Renko ELD.
I´m only using standard indicators and some custom indicators from Netpicks.

Thanks,
Caz
Caz,

Ok. Go to the TS Forum and look under Easy Language. I found one there called Kiwi Renko, but when I put it on a chart it doesn't look like blocks. Maybe someone can help me set it up right on here and then I can tell you how to install it. It is easy.
For all TS users they say Renko bars only work on version 8.5.
  • #2,536
  • Jul 25, 2009 9:30am Jul 25, 2009 9:30am
Quoting Lou G
Hello Anne,

I've greatly enjoyed your postings to this thread and wonder if you might respond to a few questions - I would have sent you a PM but you are not available for that.

Is the Renko you use applied to Close, High/Low, or ATR?

Why two minutes for Renko (as opposed to some other number)?

Does the LWMA average the Renko data?

What period for the LWMA? (and, what period might be appropriate for one minute)?

My background is in programming (been coding since computers were made of wood) and, before buying the source code for Renko,...
Hi Lou

Ian already answered two of your questions...

Renko is completely independent of time. The "M2" on the chart is just the name MT calls the chart. The names "M1", "M5", M15", etc are reserved for the internal charts but the rest are up for grabs. Please don't associate any TF with the name - it is just a handle.

The Renko script intercepts the raw tick data from the M1 chart same as any indy or EA. By default, this is BID data in MT. It then assembles these into Renko bricks based on your specified brick size only, say 5 pips. When a brick is complete, it starts a new one.

If you look at the time axis, some bricks last 20 minutes or more during slow periods, some last less than 1 second in fast PA!

The Renko chart functions exactly as any other. You can add indys, EAs etc and they work on the Renko data just fine. Please make no mistake, the commercial script turns MT into a full-function Renko workstation. It is NOT the same as the crappy "Renko indicator" that comes free on FF.

If you want to use a LWMA, then 12 (as per Edge's original scheme) is OK. But use whatever suits you.

Hope this helps

Anne
  • #2,537
  • Jul 25, 2009 9:32am Jul 25, 2009 9:32am
Quoting nsteve
Edge's spreadsheet of the Tradestation output does not specify the currency symbols, nor does it give the start and finish dates. If it did, we would be able to compare them to our own charts and figure out what he did in more detail than is possible from the image of the chart he posted. I, for one, am not questioning his integrity and am also willing to do my own research and experimentation. A classical research technique is to redo an experiment done by others to see if you get the same results.

I would also like to minimise subjective decision-making...
The pair is E/J. Complete trade list is attached for those trades
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf nitro-Trades List.pdf   343 KB | 1,108 downloads
  • #2,538
  • Jul 25, 2009 9:34am Jul 25, 2009 9:34am
Quoting nsteve
Edge's spreadsheet of the Tradestation output does not specify the currency symbols, nor does it give the start and finish dates. If it did, we would be able to compare them to our own charts and figure out what he did in more detail than is possible from the image of the chart he posted. I, for one, am not questioning his integrity and am also willing to do my own research and experimentation. A classical research technique is to redo an experiment done by others to see if you get the same results.

I would also like to minimise subjective decision-making...
Nsteve,
You are mistaken (or else trying to deceive). Tab 3 (trades List) of his spreadsheet gives you all you need including the time, price, size of each trade.

Ian
  • #2,539
  • Jul 25, 2009 9:39am Jul 25, 2009 9:39am
Quoting nsteve
Edge's spreadsheet of the Tradestation output does not specify the currency symbols, nor does it give the start and finish dates. If it did, we would be able to compare them to our own charts and figure out what he did in more detail than is possible from the image of the chart he posted. I, for one, am not questioning his integrity and am also willing to do my own research and experimentation. A classical research technique is to redo an experiment done by others to see if you get the same results.

I would also like to minimise subjective decision-making...
Go to the image Edge posted, save it or leave it open. Go to your charts, select the pair that is plainly visible in his screen shot (EURJPY). Adjust your Ranko charts until it looks the same as his (hint, it's a 10 tic Renko on my platform, I'm assuming it's the same for everyone else).

Now you know what time trades were entered and exited, because you can look at your chart and see the time. Now match it up to his listing in the excel (which actually does give trade times ) and then do the time difference in comparison to your platform time. Now you know exactly what time trades were entered and exited in your timezone.

Now go onto your chart, and mark each entry and exit, then add trix, MA's, or whatever combination of fanciness you think it is he is basing is trades on. I have a sneaky feeling it's trix, and some kind of violitility filter, but I am probably wrong.

I know that's a lot of 'work', but he already said he aint handing out this info for free, if you want it, figure it out. He's given us two screenshots now with entris and exits.
  • #2,540
  • Jul 25, 2009 9:43am Jul 25, 2009 9:43am
Quoting TudorGirl
Renko is a completely different and unique idea. It neither integrates nor differentiates in the true sense. What is does is to remove LOW AMPLITUDE components at high frequency. Thus, it only suffers from JITTER NOISE, not PHASE NOISE.
This is interesting, something new to learn over the weekend. Is there an Astrophysics For Dummies book I can pick up and read this week
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