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Silent Service Method

  • #3,861
  • Jul 24, 2009 8:41pm Jul 24, 2009 8:41pm
Quoting Low
I've been pretty down (mentally) this week, because I keep thinking I am taking good trades, then I mess with them, and then they turn into bad trades.
I really need to learn to just leave them alone.

I'm down 2.2% over the last three weeks (And honestly, that doesn't seem that bad for trading like a schmuck).

The hardest part about this week, was that when I take a bad trade and it fails, I know that it was shitty to begin with. But when I take a good trade, and go fuck it up....well...let's just say I tend to beat myself up over it.

Any...

Let me say this:

It's this kind of annoying shit that you tend to remember. It's also what led to my first 300+ pip trade. I got sick of doing this kind of thing to myself.

It is in my opinion that what you are describing is one of the main "make it or break it" points in a trader's career. You simply cannot take a handful of pips, only to have you losses full. Nor can you take your losses at half, just to watch the friggin trade go your way later.

I made a pact with myself a long time ago....when I place a stop - that's it. I never change it, period. Until you have your stop loss hit, nothing has changed in the trade at all. You stop loss represents the fact that the trade no longer makes sense.

When you get into a trade - fill out the following fact sheet:

Why am I entering this trade?
Where is it an invalid set up? (i.e., when does it not make sense anymore?)
At what price will I move my stops to break even?
What is my target? (A fixed price? Is it with the trend, allowing me to trail?)

Ask yourself these questions. If you get past this, you will be stunned at what happens....your closer than you think.

Just like you won't forget this shitty feeling, you won't forget your first 3,4,or even 500 pip run. It truly changes your outlook.

Chris
  • #3,862
  • Jul 24, 2009 8:48pm Jul 24, 2009 8:48pm
My MEOH short trade got stopped. The day when It broke the pin , I entered. And that day it turned out to be a retracement up and formed a hammer shape candle? Should I have exited the next day open , instead of waiting for my stop to hit ? Has it become an invalid setup ?
Quoting clockwork71
Where is it an invalid set up? (i.e., when does it not make sense anymore?)
Chris
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: meoh.PNG Size: 62 KB
  • #3,863
  • Jul 24, 2009 8:49pm Jul 24, 2009 8:49pm
Thanks Chris,

"1: Why am I entering this trade?
2:Where is it an invalid set up? (i.e., when does it not make sense anymore?)

3:At what price will I move my stops to break even?
4:What is my target? (A fixed price? Is it with the trend, allowing me to trail?)"

You know, I've got the first two down, but 3 and 4 I really need to work on.
I haven't set a TP in many, many months, and I remember reading early on, that you set TP's for counter-trend trades, but not for trend trades. I think I need to answer these last two questions after placing a trade, so I manage it with a plan, rather than just a reaction.
  • #3,864
  • Jul 24, 2009 9:08pm Jul 24, 2009 9:08pm
Quoting Low
Thanks Chris,

"1: Why am I entering this trade?
2:Where is it an invalid set up? (i.e., when does it not make sense anymore?)

3:At what price will I move my stops to break even?
4:What is my target? (A fixed price? Is it with the trend, allowing me to trail?)"

You know, I've got the first two down, but 3 and 4 I really need to work on.
I haven't set a TP in many, many months, and I remember reading early on, that you set TP's for counter-trend trades, but not for trend trades. I think I need to answer these last two questions after placing...

Seriously Low.....it will make a big difference. The questions you are asking will make you profitable.
  • #3,865
  • Jul 24, 2009 9:10pm Jul 24, 2009 9:10pm
Quoting cheelu
My MEOH short trade got stopped. The day when It broke the pin , I entered. And that day it turned out to be a retracement up and formed a hammer shape candle? Should I have exited the next day open , instead of waiting for my stop to hit ? Has it become an invalid setup ?

Damn it. I knew someone would do this. lol

Ok, well here goes: (I really can't believe the exception to the rule was brough up so quick. lol)

I only exit a trade early under one circumstance: A conflicting pinbar. I will be damned if you didn't just post one right away. (I change the stop to just over the conflicting pin.)

It is a comfort thing - when I see conflicting pinbars, it tends to make me a little uneasy.

Nice one!
  • #3,866
  • Jul 24, 2009 9:27pm Jul 24, 2009 9:27pm
Quoting Soca
lowmach,

There's a more powerful fib near 134 on E/J that's drawn from about a year out, which will have more influence than the one you drew. If you go back to last year for example, the one I've drawn has a top near 170, which now displays today's price very near its 38.2% retrace. That's probably a better place to start, then work your way down, to where you have your fib plot...

I attached a Daily and 3H (Oanda platform) chart to this post. I managed to clear it up a little from yesterday's muddy C/J - this time without the gridwork.

* Orange:...
Soca-

thank you for your response. I have added the big fib you mentioned and showed in your charts. nice charts by the way. i also added another fib from the 9.22.08 retracement high to the lowest low on the chart. working down like you mentioned. We seem to be bouncing around these inner fibs for sometime now. my entry was in a very busy part of the chart fib wise. uhm would you say that until the 61.8 is taken out we can still consider this as a long term down trend?

I can see why you stated that the bigger fibs will carry more weight than my h4 recent low to high fib. my fib could just be a bump in the road while the ej is range bound inside the inner fibs.

on a personal level from someone who hopes to retire one day. i do hope the 61.8 level is taken out and and the ej rises to new 2009 highs. well because that should also mean the dow & s&p will be rising as well putting me back in black on some other investments. one can have hope right.

Thanks
-low
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ej_072409fibs.gif Size: 18 KB
  • #3,867
  • Jul 24, 2009 9:49pm Jul 24, 2009 9:49pm
Quoting clockwork71
Let me say this:

It's this kind of annoying shit that you tend to remember. It's also what led to my first 300+ pip trade. I got sick of doing this kind of thing to myself.

It is in my opinion that what you are describing is one of the main "make it or break it" points in a trader's career. You simply cannot take a handful of pips, only to have you losses full. Nor can you take your losses at half, just to watch the friggin trade go your way later.

I made a pact with myself a long time ago....when I place a stop - that's it. [b]I never change...
Great post CW-
  • #3,868
  • Jul 24, 2009 9:55pm Jul 24, 2009 9:55pm
Quoting clockwork71
Let me say this:

It's this kind of annoying shit that you tend to remember. It's also what led to my first 300+ pip trade. I got sick of doing this kind of thing to myself.

It is in my opinion that what you are describing is one of the main "make it or break it" points in a trader's career. You simply cannot take a handful of pips, only to have you losses full. Nor can you take your losses at half, just to watch the friggin trade go your way later.

I made a pact with myself a long time ago....when I place a stop - that's it. [b]I never change...
[/quote]I $hit on friends. Do I know you?.[/quote]
  • #3,869
  • Jul 24, 2009 10:00pm Jul 24, 2009 10:00pm
CW,

My first post ever so be gentle. I have been following this thread for a while and feel I have got a grasp of the concepts. I have a couple of specific questions regarding implementaion in real time:

1) Assuming you do not catch the close of every 4H bar (which I assume is a reality) you open chart and see a perfect pin in your PZ, and price has advanced in the direction you wanted to trade, do you:

a) Just enter if its not "too far" away from where you would have set your stop order (+/- 10 pip rule?).
or
b) Set a limit order to enter if/when price comes back to your optimal entry level?

2) If price gets into the price zone and does not throw up a nice bar/candle pattern for entry do you pass on the trade or do you use a 'just get in' type method of any sort?

The reason I ask is a lot of people are bothered about the time change on the varying feeds around (including myself to a certain degree), 'my feed said hammer' , 'well mine said piercing pattern' and 'mine said nothing'.

Is it not just more important to enter when the turn is confirmed rather than by a perfect pattern formation given the profit potential should be multiple hundereds anyway? Or do you feel strongly that trading off patterns increases either the reliability or profit potential of the trade by enough to only trade these patterns? You may say its a personal choice / comfort thing and I may well have just answered my own question but would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks for the great work on this thread (as well as the other contributers)......it is truely valuable stuff.

PS (Off the subject) Go the All Blacks......I do suspect were are gonna get thumped in africa though
  • #3,870
  • Jul 24, 2009 10:05pm Jul 24, 2009 10:05pm
Quoting mypipbull
CW,

My first post ever so be gentle. I have been following this thread for a while and feel I have got a grasp of the concepts. I have a couple of specific questions regarding implementaion in real time:

1) Assuming you do not catch the close of every 4H bar (which I assume is a reality) you open chart and see a perfect pin in your PZ, and price has advanced in the direction you wanted to trade, do you:

a) Just enter if its not "too far" away from where you would have set your stop order (+/- 10 pip rule?).
or
b) Set a limit order to enter...
#1 - At least your not an American Rugger fan....lol (ugh)

And yes, I will enter a bit late.....but I still place my stop as if I took it as usual. This lowers the pip value, but doesn't increase my risk.

For example: If the bar was 100 pips long, and I am getting into it 60 pips late - my stop would be 170 or so. Still risking only my normal risk.

Of course, I will only if it's reasonable to go into it. I use some common sense. I wouldn't enter 500 pips later......

Chris
  • #3,871
  • Jul 24, 2009 10:14pm Jul 24, 2009 10:14pm
I $hit on friends. Do I know you?.[/quote][/quote]

What, no drunken riddle? I'm disappointed.
  • #3,872
  • Jul 24, 2009 10:22pm Jul 24, 2009 10:22pm
Quoting cheelu
can you get hongkong stocks ? I configured ninja to use IB and I'm trying to open chart for 1387.hk and it gives an error "select an instrument" . it works well for U.S equities.
thanks for the reply cheelu.

thats the message i got when i tried to pull up the eur.jpy futures. which i can pull up fine in IB.

Let me go test the 1387.hk and let you know.

cheers
-Low
  • #3,873
  • Jul 24, 2009 10:35pm Jul 24, 2009 10:35pm
Quoting clockwork71
Let me say this:

It's this kind of annoying shit that you tend to remember. It's also what led to my first 300+ pip trade. I got sick of doing this kind of thing to myself.

It is in my opinion that what you are describing is one of the main "make it or break it" points in a trader's career. You simply cannot take a handful of pips, only to have you losses full. Nor can you take your losses at half, just to watch the friggin trade go your way later.

I made a pact with myself a long time ago....when I place a stop - that's it. [b]I never...

Great post bro........

Just started reading Pring on Price Patterns....I like it! :nerd:

HOLLA
  • #3,874
  • Jul 25, 2009 12:01am Jul 25, 2009 12:01am
Quoting Turtle
Great post bro........

Just started reading Pring on Price Patterns....I like it! :nerd:

HOLLA

I love that book. I reread it often.
  • #3,875
  • Jul 25, 2009 2:19am Jul 25, 2009 2:19am
Quoting clockwork71
Damn it. I knew someone would do this. lol

Ok, well here goes: (I really can't believe the exception to the rule was brough up so quick. lol)

I only exit a trade early under one circumstance: A conflicting pinbar. I will be damned if you didn't just post one right away. (I change the stop to just over the conflicting pin.)

It is a comfort thing - when I see conflicting pinbars, it tends to make me a little uneasy.

Nice one!
Hi ya CW,

Can I just go back to this post just to confirm i'm understanding this right please..

1. you originally put the stop above the first red pin bar..
2. price does it's thing and you see a second black pinbar in the opposite direction complete and you quickly put a stop just above that black pinbar..

am i right with what your saying here?

Thanks,
Adrian
  • #3,876
  • Jul 25, 2009 2:29am Jul 25, 2009 2:29am
After reading today what's been going on the last couple of days I would like to offer you this advice (I have been trading for 7 years and seen it all).

ClockWork

Stop right now in any back and forth insults/communication, it's obvious what the intent is here (to try and sabotage plans). Keep it clean on any Public Forum, the owners will not want it here just as you wouldn't if it was your site.

Carry on with your plan, put all your energy into that.

Do not mention in your history/profile anyone who has ever bad mouthed you or mistreated you, do not be bulliied into doing that, just briefly mention that you did have a short association and ended up being a key member in the development, don't name names where then your good name can be tarnished, (this is really important).

Remember, every action causes an equal reaction.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to tell you here, have you ever used the edit buttom before? It's for sorting out mistakes that get recorded in history.

You will always get friction when you start to succeed, that's part of it, the invisible chains, time to cut them off and look forward.

No anger, no upset must you let in, be positive, what you're doing is going to be hard enough, and fullfilling, I wish you luck my friend, remember, never look behind when in times of turmoil.

I'm very busy into my trading and don't usually post on sites but a friend told me to have a word as they said you seem a decent guy who just wants to move up the ladder financially.

I will be keeping an eye on your work in progress and maybe beable to offer some support in the future if you would accept it.
  • #3,877
  • Jul 25, 2009 6:04am Jul 25, 2009 6:04am
Quoting Low
I've been pretty down (mentally) this week, because I keep thinking I am taking good trades, then I mess with them, and then they turn into bad trades.
I really need to learn to just leave them alone.

I'm down 2.2% over the last three weeks (And honestly, that doesn't seem that bad for trading like a schmuck).

The hardest part about this week, was that when I take a bad trade and it fails, I know that it was shitty to begin with. But when I take a good trade, and go fuck it up....well...let's just say I tend to beat myself up over it.

Any...
I find it better to not check the charts too often either. If you're trading 4h candles don't look at it until the end of a 4h candle as the intra bar move means less than where it closes.

There is a lot more movement/volatility/noise on the 4 h chart too, have you tried just using the close of the daily candle to enter your trades?
  • #3,878
  • Jul 25, 2009 6:58am Jul 25, 2009 6:58am
Quoting clockwork71
I $hit on friends. Do I know you?.
[/quote]

What, no drunken riddle? I'm disappointed.[/quote]

I $hit on my friends... you can buy the dvd at www.stoppostingrubbish.com
  • #3,879
  • Jul 25, 2009 7:56am Jul 25, 2009 7:56am
Quoting Max Profit
After reading today what's been going on the last couple of days I would like to offer you this advice (I have been trading for 7 years and seen it all).

ClockWork

Stop right now in any back and forth insults/communication, it's obvious what the intent is here (to try and sabotage plans). Keep it clean on any Public Forum, the owners will not want it here just as you wouldn't if it was your site.

[color=blue][i]Carry on with your plan, put all your energy...


Well said,

There is also the ignore button.
  • #3,880
  • Jul 25, 2009 8:19am Jul 25, 2009 8:19am
Quoting Max Profit
After reading today what's been going on the last couple of days I would like to offer you this advice (I have been trading for 7 years and seen it all).

ClockWork

Stop right now in any back and forth insults/communication, it's obvious what the intent is here (to try and sabotage plans). Keep it clean on any Public Forum, the owners will not want it here just as you wouldn't if it was your site.

[color=blue][i]Carry on with your plan, put all your energy...
Thank you Max. Your point is well taken. Just finally got fed up a little.

The truth is my intended audience hasn't reacted yet (that I know of) and the rest is just noise. Well put.

Chris
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