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James16+Rayanmcd(Jan kone) and ME 7 replies

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Jankone M5 thread

  • #701
  • Jul 20, 2009 9:59am Jul 20, 2009 9:59am
Quoting FOURX
Hey Clode,

what has 4hr charts got to do with these 5 min thread?
(nice trades, by the way)
thanks
Hi FOURX,

no relation with this trades and the 5min..

Viewing past posts from Jankone I saw he wasn't focused only on this TF but
rather he discussed other TF like 15 e 30 min.

I understand my stuff is a little offtopic here.. I've just realized that this strategy is well suitable for different TFs like H4 (the TF I actually trade the most..)

I can't give any contribution on 5 min cause I have never traded it..

My intention is to study H4 TF and the H1 and share with you my thoughts..

I don't use BB or MAs but I'm going to glance at them later.. I'm using few S/R and TL to support my analisys.. and, of course, I do really prefer "with trend" trade..

let's have fun...
  • #702
  • Jul 20, 2009 11:25am Jul 20, 2009 11:25am
Quoting supremeChaos
Jlr,
what does variance exactly mean?
at first, it would be very confusing for a trader to transform a M5/M15 trade into H1, H4 or Daily & up trade.
aside from experience & screen time (if u can monitor trade/chart progression, if u have more free time), It all boils down to flexibility & expectations: a scalper +/- M5/M15 trader usually will not expect his/her trade to last very long (several hours, days etc).
if u are a scalper, u usually expect to take scalping trades & profits/losses.

Yes, [color=Blue]the solution is having...

Hmm, partial profits, and let the other run? Thanks supreme, will consider. Exit are probably my biggest weakness BY FAR at the moment. So easy to find good entries, but what makes for a good exit? If I'm not willing to trade the other direction of my trade, then an exit is going to be pretty random for me, and basically has been hehe. S/R, ya I know, but trading on smaller TF I don't know what S/R I should be respecting... generally end up with lines all over my chart and a big . Also, I do sort of incorporate higher TF I suppose, I always trade trend, and I usually look for a well established one hmm. Caught a nice E/U trade last night, got 3:1, I think it ended up running like 10:1 or so bah. Maybe a trailing stop for the whole lot might help? I know ryan isn't a big fan of partial profits, and I fully respect his opinion, so I'm really unsure. Sorry for the rambling.
  • #703
  • Jul 20, 2009 11:26am Jul 20, 2009 11:26am
Quoting Clode
Hi FOURX,

no relation with this trades and the 5min..

Viewing past posts from Jankone I saw he wasn't focused only on this TF but
rather he discussed other TF like 15 e 30 min.

I understand my stuff is a little offtopic here.. I've just realized that this strategy is well suitable for different TFs like H4 (the TF I actually trade the most..)

I can't give any contribution on 5 min cause I have never traded it..

My intention is to study H4 TF and the H1 and share with you my thoughts..

I don't use BB or MAs but I'm going to glance at them...
[/b]

Amen
  • #704
  • Jul 20, 2009 11:26am Jul 20, 2009 11:26am
oops double posted hehe
  • #705
  • Jul 20, 2009 11:56am Jul 20, 2009 11:56am
Quoting Jlr
Hmm, partial profits, and let the other run? Thanks supreme, will consider. Exit are probably my biggest weakness BY FAR at the moment. So easy to find good entries, but what makes for a good exit? If I'm not willing to trade the other direction of my trade, then an exit is going to be pretty random for me, and basically has been hehe. S/R, ya I know, but trading on smaller TF I don't know what S/R I should be respecting... generally end up with lines all over my chart and a big . Also, I do sort of incorporate higher TF I suppose, I always...
Hey There,

I for one enjoyed your rambling hehe , it Inspired some rambling of my own

Why not do something like a volatility based trailing stop ? I posted about it earlier in the thread (I think). It is a mechanical solution to a dynamic problem which is actually pretty good.

I started trading the Daily/4HR, then traded the 1HR, now I trade the 5Minute almost exclusively, but I still trade the Dailies if they are good setups, I don't use the same charts for analyzing them both though (I have a set of Daily charts and a set of 5Min Charts if you get me) at the start I tried trading 5Min off the Daily's but it ended up as a mess heh.


Why not try a DIBS-like thing or something, take this for instance (Im just picking this out of my head, I always meant to try this but I am 100% happy with my current method and its returns so I never got around to it)

1) Daily Price action (eg it's a bullish outside bar)
You then write down on a piece of paper what the SL, Entry and TP would be for it. (This establishes our bias for the 5Min)

2) However, instead of trading it as a daily setup, go long on every single piece of bullish price action you can on the 5Min, chances are youll get at least 50% to 1:1, Risk .5% per trade, take half of that off at 1:1 and let a position develop until it reaches the eventual Daily take profit.

You could just keep things simple and just say 1:1 is fine, 2:1 is fine, I mean if you have an edge on the market and your entries are good then really theres no problem with the exit, I used to go crazy thinking about exits and how much I could have made with such and such, but eventually I just stopped obsessing over it and got a simple idea instead.

Now I just pick my entries properly, set my TP at 1:4, and I make money.

Thing about the 5Min is that if theres a whole lot of nothing going on (Like the current choppy mess on the higher timeframes) theres always going to be a trend on the 5Min taking place, price has to go somewhere.

Best Regards,
Jig
  • #706
  • Edited 12:25pm Jul 20, 2009 12:14pm | Edited 12:25pm
Quoting Jigsaw
Hey There,

I for one enjoyed your rambling hehe , it Inspired some rambling of my own

Why not do something like a volatility based trailing stop ? I posted about it earlier in the thread (I think). It is a mechanical solution to a dynamic problem which is actually pretty good.

I started trading the Daily/4HR, then traded the 1HR, now I trade the 5Minute almost exclusively, but I still trade the Dailies if they are good setups, I don't use the same charts for analyzing them both though (I have a set of Daily charts and a set of 5Min Charts...
Thanks Jig, will definitely consider. Have not ever considered averaging up, used to do an average down strategy, found it to be way to stressful for obvious reasons hehe. Ya 5 min is great, always a nice trade, and the win percentage on the nice looking set ups is great. I also love how fast they can often play out, no sitting there stressing out, questioning, and then doing something stupid as a result (was a killer for me). I'll look at that dibs things, see what I can make of it. Would love to get this down more "scientifically", but perhaps its not even possible. Cash is cash, and no complaints obviously, just always hate to leave cash on the table.
Very interesting though, you could potentially hit the jackpot doing that. Last month or so I've been looking at raczeck's (sorry name sp) retraces, looking at the 5 min for confirmation. Was a period of a few weeks with a lot of them, most offered 10:1ish, and none really went nearly as far as I would of expected (30:1 or so). Thats the only real higher TF trading I've incorporated so far... it really is... very.... appealing....
Out of curiosity, why do you go for 4:1 exclusively? Lower the spread hit? Also do you do this at 2 percent risk?
  • #707
  • Jul 20, 2009 1:04pm Jul 20, 2009 1:04pm
Quoting Jlr
Thanks Jig, will definitely consider. Have not ever considered averaging up, used to do an average down strategy, found it to be way to stressful for obvious reasons hehe. Ya 5 min is great, always a nice trade, and the win percentage on the nice looking set ups is great. I also love how fast they can often play out, no sitting there stressing out, questioning, and then doing something stupid as a result (was a killer for me). I'll look at that dibs things, see what I can make of it. Would love to get this down more "scientifically", but perhaps...
Hey bro,

Yeah the 5Min is awesome alright, if you don't mind watching 5Min charts for 10+ hours a day heh . Re-Quotes are the biggest problem for me, and losing focus and wandering away from the old trading setup as well is a problem.

I find my %wins on the 5Min is lower than on the higher timeframes though, but you get way more setups so it's beneficial in %terms to hit the 5Min if I can.

Go look at DIBS indeed, just the whole philosophy part of it is awesome, Inside bars themselves reach 1:1 50% of the time, I'd wager that BUOBs and BEOBs and Pinbars have a better ratio than that, so it would be a solid idea to incorporate the exit strategy in DIBS, the "Trading for infinite yield" pdf in that thread was a must read for me, definately an epiphany moment.

As for getting it more scientifically, I actually am the opposite way, I used to think there was like a trading Nirvana or something, that I would find the secret to figure it all out, but the problem is the Market is always changing, always dynamic. Thats why whenever I tried to approach it scientifically I always failed hard. My current system is extremely simple.

Hitting Raczeks retraces with the 5Min is an awesome idea bro, any "blind entry" system can be improved with price action on the lower timeframes imvho.

4:1 - you hit it right on the head, just to lower the spread hit, spread is the main problem on the 5Min along with requotes and actual time involved, I actually will be moving to MB-Futures soon away from Alpari UK so I can get some better spreads.

I always use .3% - .5% risk on the 5Min, I would have no problem using 2 or 3% on the Daily's, but since the 5Min is so Spikey no way could I justify using 2% on it. I know the profit potential for the 5Min at 2% is huge but the drawdown potential is massive as well. As well as that I usually have a few trades on at the one timeacross a few different pairs so I don't want total risk to be massive either.

What %Risk are you running on the 5Min ?

Regards,
Jig
  • #708
  • Jul 20, 2009 1:25pm Jul 20, 2009 1:25pm
Quoting Jigsaw
Hey bro,

Yeah the 5Min is awesome alright, if you don't mind watching 5Min charts for 10+ hours a day heh . Re-Quotes are the biggest problem for me, and losing focus and wandering away from the old trading setup as well is a problem.

I find my %wins on the 5Min is lower than on the higher timeframes though, but you get way more setups so it's beneficial in %terms to hit the 5Min if I can.

Go look at DIBS indeed, just the whole philosophy part of it is awesome, Inside bars themselves reach 1:1 50% of the time, I'd wager that BUOBs and...
Ya watching the 5 mins for 10 hrs a day is a little challenging. I try to keep myself occupied (music, TV, etc), only so much I can watch and listen to lol.

Your win percentage is lower? Hmm, how many trades a day do you generally take? I've been really picky trading off the 5 mins, probably 1 trade a day on average, but their always nice Its great trading from the 5s, I can get an amazing looking trade, compared to just some average trade on the daily that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, though I used to. I often wonder though, would it be more profitable just to take every single trade that presents itself, knowing I have a slight edge. I think the answer is yes, but I sort of prefer the way I trade, losing trades just eat me up mentally. All about happyness for me, and having fun, and right now I'm having a great time. I may change this later though.

I'll check out that Dibs stricky, ty. I've mostly just been watching inside bars out of curiosity, still deciding if I like them or not. I do think pinbars seem to be more profitable, but the IB's do seem to work pretty well too.

I'm running strictly 1 percent risk per trade. I may up it later when I get more confidence. Also, I'm trading with literally 1/10th of the cash I have available for trading. Figure I might as well take it slow, am young and still have parentals on my side

Really nice night last night, and today. Days like this, I have to drink a lot of coffee lol. Seems like this stuff can be pretty streaky though. I notice a few days that are very average, even on the good trades, and then days like today, everything just works beautifully. Its exciting on days like this, but I really shouldn't ignore sleep to much I wonder if theres anything to that, or it's just random. I've been thinking lately, have a day loss of say, 2 trades in a row, or 2 percent, but when the wins start to roll in, just keep going until I'm told otherwise.
  • #709
  • Jul 20, 2009 1:46pm Jul 20, 2009 1:46pm
Quoting Jlr
Ya watching the 5 mins for 10 hrs a day is a little challenging. I try to keep myself occupied (music, TV, etc), only so much I can watch and listen to lol.

Your win percentage is lower? Hmm, how many trades a day do you generally take? I've been really picky trading off the 5 mins, probably 1 trade a day on average, but their always nice Its great trading from the 5s, I can get an amazing looking trade, compared to just some average trade on the daily that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, though I used to. I often wonder though, would...
Hey,

Oh Jeez I take loads everyday, above ten usually lol. Were you trading last night ? I wake up at 6AM (Here in Ireland) To trade, I wish I was trading last night though because when I woke up this morning I was like "damn! there was some good trading to be had ".

It depends though, I have a set of rules and I stick to them, some days I have had no trades after 16HRs of looking at the screens so meh lol. Music and TV helps though your right about that.

Yeah your right about it being streaky, today was an awesome day, pity about not being awake for last night though, some days are terrible though, last Thursday was a particularly bad day of Chop for me (It just comes to mind now, awful heh )

Yeah plenty of time to get the stuff down then you can invest the big bucks later .

I actually used to go wild over losing trades but now it doesn't affect me as much, I just know with my rules I have an edge on the market and it's as simple as that I guess.

The worst thing about really good setups on the 5Min is that they are usually re-quotes simply because after the 5Min PA forms it starts going wild heh.

I actually trade more BUOBS and BEOBs on the 5Min than pinbars funnily enough, and Pinbars used to be my favourite heh. I guess a 5min BEOB/BUOB is just a 10Minute pinbar anyway .

Regards,
Jig
  • #710
  • Jul 20, 2009 1:53pm Jul 20, 2009 1:53pm
Quoting Jigsaw
Hey,

Oh Jeez I take loads everyday, above ten usually lol. Were you trading last night ? I wake up at 6AM (Here in Ireland) To trade, I wish I was trading last night though because when I woke up this morning I was like "damn! there was some good trading to be had ".

It depends though, I have a set of rules and I stick to them, some days I have had no trades after 16HRs of looking at the screens so meh lol. Music and TV helps though your right about that.

Yeah your right about it being streaky, today was an awesome day, pity about not being...
Ya, I usually pass out at 10pm PST, but I haven't slept yet and its almost 12 PM lol. That being said, I really should/probably will crash in a sec hehe.

Losing trades still eat me alive, I think I need to read that book that just about everyone recommends "trading in the zone". Couldn't hurt I guess. Definitely not as bad as it used to be though, when my risk was absolutely insane, and I was trying to become rich overnight. Kind of changed my mindset in that regard, and gone back to how it was before, just trying to have a good time.

Interesting with the outside bars, I haven't tried that. I used to go crazy combining bars and it never really worked well for me. I think I just got a little carried away, and didn't really look and realize that the pins I was forming were tiny in comparison to the previous bars. Thats probably where I went wrong.

And jeez, 10 trades a day!!! Sounds like a good time haha.
  • #711
  • Jul 20, 2009 1:55pm Jul 20, 2009 1:55pm
Hey Jigsaw and jlr any chance of posting some charts with trades you've taken?

thanks
  • #712
  • Jul 20, 2009 1:58pm Jul 20, 2009 1:58pm
Quoting FOURX
Hey Jigsaw and jlr any chance of posting some charts with trades you've taken?

thanks
Sure I'll post some later... basically almost identical setups as I've posted in the past, but I'll post again
  • #713
  • Jul 20, 2009 2:00pm Jul 20, 2009 2:00pm
thanks mate
  • #714
  • Jul 20, 2009 2:01pm Jul 20, 2009 2:01pm
Quoting FOURX
Hey Jigsaw and jlr any chance of posting some charts with trades you've taken?

thanks
Sure Lemme re-download some Screenshot software (Other PC tower's power supply blew up ) and I'll post the stuff then.
  • #715
  • Jul 20, 2009 2:28pm Jul 20, 2009 2:28pm
Quoting Jlr
Ya, I usually pass out at 10pm PST, but I haven't slept yet and its almost 12 PM lol. That being said, I really should/probably will crash in a sec hehe.

Losing trades still eat me alive, I think I need to read that book that just about everyone recommends "trading in the zone". Couldn't hurt I guess. Definitely not as bad as it used to be though, when my risk was absolutely insane, and I was trying to become rich overnight. Kind of changed my mindset in that regard, and gone back to how it was before, just trying to have a good time.

Interesting...
Yeah trading is wierd like that,

I as well as everyone else imagined getting rich overnight and putting on enormous risk etc, trading actually becomes boring after a while. The excitement has kind of died out of it for me, I thought it was a great adventure once upon a time lol.

I avoid combining bars like the plague and I am 100% against combining bars simply because you can combine any amount of bars and get a pinbar out of it, you just have to combine the right number of bars = pinbar. Combining bars lead me into overtrading in a massive way.

Quoting FOURX
Hey Jigsaw and jlr any chance of posting some charts with trades you've taken?

thanks
Quoting Jigsaw
Sure Lemme re-download some Screenshot software (Other PC tower's power supply blew up ) and I'll post the stuff then.
Stuff is downloaded ! (That was quick)

Heres some examples, I just went through the surf of the EU and GU today, this current EU long probably won't make it tho lol . Wish everyday was as easy as today heh, good surf to be had last night when I was sleeping too.

Regards,
Jig
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Click to Enlarge Name: T2.jpg Size: 173 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: T3.jpg Size: 149 KB
  • #716
  • Jul 20, 2009 4:08pm Jul 20, 2009 4:08pm
Hey man, I think you have nice trades, but it's not exactly my style, i think james16 thread is more similar with your style

some people here could be confused from your h4 charts...you know

Quoting Clode
Hi FOURX,

no relation with this trades and the 5min..

Viewing past posts from Jankone I saw he wasn't focused only on this TF but
rather he discussed other TF like 15 e 30 min.

I understand my stuff is a little offtopic here.. I've just realized that this strategy is well suitable for different TFs like H4 (the TF I actually trade the most..)

I can't give any contribution on 5 min cause I have never traded it..

My intention is to study H4 TF and the H1 and share with you my thoughts..

I don't use BB or MAs but I'm going to glance at them...
  • #717
  • Jul 20, 2009 4:15pm Jul 20, 2009 4:15pm
Quoting Jigsaw
Yeah trading is wierd like that,

I as well as everyone else imagined getting rich overnight and putting on enormous risk etc, trading actually becomes boring after a while. The excitement has kind of died out of it for me, I thought it was a great adventure once upon a time lol.

I avoid combining bars like the plague and I am 100% against combining bars simply because you can combine any amount of bars and get a pinbar out of it, you just have to combine the right number of bars = pinbar. Combining bars lead me into overtrading in a massive...
Interesting, I don't get it though exactly. Are you basically defining the longerish term trend (relative to the TF), and taking outside bars off of that? If so, what do you use to define the trend? Or do you just eyeball from experience? Thanks
  • #718
  • Jul 20, 2009 4:39pm Jul 20, 2009 4:39pm
Quoting Jankone
Hey man, I think you have nice trades, but it's not exactly my style, i think james16 thread is more similar with your style

some people here could be confused from your h4 charts...you know
It's OK for me..
  • #719
  • Jul 21, 2009 2:23am Jul 21, 2009 2:23am
Quoting Jlr
Interesting, I don't get it though exactly. Are you basically defining the longerish term trend (relative to the TF), and taking outside bars off of that? If so, what do you use to define the trend? Or do you just eyeball from experience? Thanks
Yep trend relative to timeframe, you can just eyeball it - Higher highs, lower lows. Or you can to the 21ema and 50sma to define it it does not matter I found.
  • #720
  • Jul 21, 2009 3:58am Jul 21, 2009 3:58am
Quoting Jigsaw
Yep trend relative to timeframe, you can just eyeball it - Higher highs, lower lows. Or you can to the 21ema and 50sma to define it it does not matter I found.
Hi Jigsaw

So these are bullish outside bars you're playing? How do you enter the trade? On the break of the outside bar, with stop below? Also, there seems to be a couple of bullish outside bars you didn't take. Do you take them relative to support/resistance levels only?

Also, are you shooting for a 2% return with 0.5% risk? Wondering why the 0.5% loss on the second chart?

Thanks
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