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Giving Up

  • #61
  • Jul 13, 2009 3:08pm Jul 13, 2009 3:08pm
Quoting PeterFM
...and I'm not quite ready for the torrents of abuse that will come my way .
I'm quite sure there are any number of folks here who "have your back" whether there's total agreement on indi's or not... what kind of world would that be anyway?

...and I would think your contributions to date have earned you any Soapbox you care to stand on...

Let it rip...
FUBAR...
  • #62
  • Jul 13, 2009 3:19pm Jul 13, 2009 3:19pm
Quoting ak4x
I'm quite sure there are any number of folks here who "have your back" whether there's total agreement on indi's or not... what kind of world would that be anyway?

...and I would think your contributions to date have earned you any Soapbox you care to stand on...

Let it rip...
I think the problem I've had is that the thread is for real newbies and I haven't quite worked out how to guide them on 'nekked trading' without the feel for the market that one gets after a while.

I'm trying to get my mind back to where it was 2-3 years ago and I suspect I would have ignored me at that time. I was looking for some magic combo of indies that worked in real time then.

When I taught folk to drive I worked hard to remember how it felt to be a learner but I'm finding this harder. I start a page up, read it and then scrap it. Then do it all over again.

(Anyway, between you and me I don't want everyone to find out my edge )
  • #63
  • Jul 13, 2009 3:29pm Jul 13, 2009 3:29pm
Step away from trading for a few days... just let it go. Take some time off, relax. The forex market will be there when you come back. Try to become more selective with you trade choices and trade less to see if that works. Often people over trade and that leads to loses.

Also DO NOT QUIT TRADING! "Once a trader, always a trader" Remember you are a trader for life. You can't get out of this. You are in for life. If other people can do it, you can do it too!!
  • #64
  • Jul 13, 2009 4:15pm Jul 13, 2009 4:15pm
Yes don't give up, if you want my personal advice, here it is:

First of all, stop looking trading like buy when price go up and sell when price go down, this will let you buy high and sell low most of the time, and it's not like this that market work (sometime can be done, but must know when and why do it).

Instead, remember how market work, what market is, and what market DO.

Market is a place where supply and demand meet each other, to say in other words, there are accumulation phases, and distribution ones.

Price go in supports, where people buy, then go to resistances, where who bought sell, and who want to join sell, then go to a new support area, where buyers buy back it, etc.. etc..

Doing it, it create trends, patterns, etc.. But my advice is to give a try to this way of trade, basically try to understand when price is in a support, where buys accumulates, and when finally all the big guys bought and they are happy, price go up, reaching a resistance, where the inverse thing happen, buyers close their buys, and sellers start to accumulate their sells..
It's not easy and it's not simple, but just give a thinking about this idea, try to look trading differently from what 95% of traders see it, it can be a new start.
  • #65
  • Jul 13, 2009 11:28pm Jul 13, 2009 11:28pm
Quoting PeterFM
I think the problem I've had is that the thread is for real newbies and I haven't quite worked out how to guide them on 'nekked trading' without the feel for the market that one gets after a while.

I'm trying to get my mind back to where it was 2-3 years ago and I suspect I would have ignored me at that time. I was looking for some magic combo of indies that worked in real time then.
I think it won't matter too much how you present the material, if somebody is not at the right place in their journey then they are not going to listen. Just put it out there and those who are ready will benefit, those who are not will get there someday and then be able to benefit.
  • #66
  • Jul 13, 2009 11:32pm Jul 13, 2009 11:32pm
Quoting Jimmy Jones
I think it won't matter too much how you present the material, if somebody is not at the right place in their journey then they are not going to listen. Just put it out there and those who are ready will benefit, those who are not will get there someday and then be able to benefit.
There are those who want to be traders and there are those who think they want to be traders. The first loss separates the two types.
  • #67
  • Edited 2:05am Jul 14, 2009 12:21am | Edited 2:05am
Quoting Jimmy Jones
I think it won't matter too much how you present the material, if somebody is not at the right place in their journey then they are not going to listen. Just put it out there and those who are ready will benefit, those who are not will get there someday and then be able to benefit.

I hear a lot about 'the journey' and I wonder how many new traders go through the same journey. I entered the forex world via people such as Peter Bain. He introduced me to the world of indicators etc but it left the essentials out such as how the market works, market psychology, trader psychology and money management. There are too many courses like this sold by people who do not and cannot trade. Once the penny dropped I soon learnt to hate indicators and saw them as part and parcel of the 'trading guru' marketing world, created by people trying to reinvent the wheel, or at least selling such a concept.

The battle for many is changing their trading habits once they learn how NOT to trade from the very beginning of their journey. I understand now that there is really nothing wrong with indicators but only IF they are used properly in conjunction with the basic concepts of how the markets work. But for many, once they understand this they really have no need for indicators unless they see them as some sort of emotional management cushion.

For most new traders their journey has started with a very big uphill struggle, simply because they were introduced to the wrong information at the wrong time. A major part of the journey is not about learning how to trade, it is about knowing how to learn how to trade.
  • #68
  • Jul 16, 2009 8:14pm Jul 16, 2009 8:14pm
Quoting Jimmy Jones
How many times per year do you guys feel like giving up? I'm feeling it pretty strong right now, after several months of great performance followed by three months of just terrible performance.

A short time ago I felt great about trading, what I wanted was crystal clear and how to get it made sense.

Now I feel like I'm completely lost all over again, as if the last year of 60+ hour a week studying and trading was nothing but a dream that produced no skills or experience in the marketplace. Like a noob, all over again.

The scary thing is I...
Congratulations. You have joined the ranks of every person who has ever been in business for himself. I am an accountant and every one of my business clients has wanted to give up at some time.
The reason they can't is that they can't afford to walk out on their ongoing responsibilities such as rent, equipment leases, wages, utilities etc without generating the income. Do you think their landlord will say good bye without suing your arse off you for the ongoing rent?
They are stuck in their businesses so they stop feeling sorry for themselves and get on with the job. And most who stick it out turn the corner and become successful.
The forex trading business is terrifically simple. It is only YOU versus an impersonal market place on a computer screen. Go and read the post on Jacko's House of Pleasure and Pain and you will see some of the benefits of forex trading.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...23&postcount=2
If you cant control your self emotions and make a success of this business, then I recommend that you never start up or buy a small to medium business.

Pull yourself together, stop feeling sorry for yourself and get back to work.
And thank your lucky stars you don't work for me
  • #69
  • Jul 17, 2009 6:33pm Jul 17, 2009 6:33pm
are u a full time trader? if not then probably take this as a learning process. 22% draw down? that's not a lot i suppose, considering i blew my 1st account through anyhow trading:x and even my 2nd account, it just took 2 days to demolish my 20% profit in a month and another few days to push it down further.

trading is like a business, requires a plan. aim to trade well n not for the money(which is often what i did), and the money will come in naturally. being emotionless is not easy, but it is what we must become.
  • #70
  • Jul 18, 2009 1:00am Jul 18, 2009 1:00am
Quoting fxtrader29
....most who stick it out turn the corner and become successful......
The stats say different. 50% of start-ups fail within the first 12 months, and a staggering 90% within the first 5 years!

Allegedly 95% of retail forex traders fail, some within the first few weeks.
Apparently the average lifespan of a new forex trading account is ~6 months.

"get on with the job" doesn't really cut it as sound business planning advice in my opinion, the sad fact is most will fail.

People walk into this business off the street with a few hundred bucks and without the first idea of how they intend to beat the odds, what else do they expect to happen other than losing their money?
  • #71
  • Jul 18, 2009 1:11am Jul 18, 2009 1:11am
Quoting pipmutt
The stats say different. 50% of start-ups fail within the first 12 months, and a staggering 90% within the first 5 years!

Allegedly 95% of retail forex traders fail, some within the first few weeks.
Apparently the average lifespan of a new forex trading account is ~6 months.

"get on with the job" doesn't really cut it as sound business planning advice in my opinion, the sad fact is most will fail.

People walk into this business off the street with a few hundred bucks and without the first idea of how they intend to beat the...
1st acct 6 mths? that's long. shucks.
  • #72
  • Jul 18, 2009 2:45am Jul 18, 2009 2:45am
I just wanted to point out, that in my first post I simply asked the question of how many of you get to the point of giving up in a year. I never said I planned on giving up, in fact I said the scary part was I knew I would never give up, no matter how painful it became, and I was just wondering if there were others out there that had felt the same in the past.

People fail because they give up, plain and simple. The high fail rate in this game is because people are always looking for easy money, to get something for nothing (as can be seen with the direction of the U.S political shift over the last years). I just read an interesting quote (Master the Markets I think) that said "your result will be in direct proportion with your effort". Someone needs to remind the Democrats of that .

Anyhow, in addition to effort, if your putting in effort and not getting the results you expected, perhaps it's because the effort your putting in is not the right kind of effort for the results you wish to achieve. Thankfully my first post in this thread brought some responses that pulled me out of my emotional stupor and reminded me of that fact, and I stepped back and realize the effort I had been putting in the last 6 weeks was not the same effort as before.

When I invested in real estate I had a mantra I lived by everyday "Act, Review. Refine. Repeat." Somehow I failed to carry that over to trading, but now it's part of my program to get back to profitability.

People fail when they give up, plain and simple. The statistics mean nothing if your determined to not be a statistic, to not be average.

Yes, I sound like a completely different person than my post last Friday, thanks to those of you who pointed out how dumb I was acting and told me to step back. It's working. I will never achieve the type of confidence I had before my 6 week draw down (a confidence based on arrogance perhaps). Now I am building back a confidence based on caution. Which I think is far better.

So no, I'm not giving up!
  • #73
  • Jul 18, 2009 3:17am Jul 18, 2009 3:17am
Quoting Jimmy Jones

People fail when they give up, plain and simple. The statistics mean nothing if your determined to not be a statistic, to not be average.
Chicken and egg! People usually give up when they're failing at something, and sometimes the most sensible and prudent thing to do is recognize lack of ability and admit defeat gracefully. Not everyone can be winners, especially not in a game like forex.

Statistics mean everything, they don't lie. Sure, you can probably play around with the figues and discount those without the drive to succeed, but at the end of the day the majority of new businesses and new traders fail, and no amount of effort and determination can change that fact.

Your perseverance and determination are admirable, let's hope they're justified.

Good luck!
  • #74
  • Jul 18, 2009 4:23am Jul 18, 2009 4:23am
Quoting Jimmy Jones
I just wanted to point out, that in my first post I simply asked the question of how many of you get to the point of giving up in a year. I never said I planned on giving up, in fact I said the scary part was I knew I would never give up, no matter how painful it became, and I was just wondering if there were others out there that had felt the same in the past.

People fail because they give up, plain and simple. The high fail rate in this game is because people are always looking for easy money, to get something for nothing (as can be seen with...
Good spirit. Defeat is not about losing, defeat is about giving up.
  • #75
  • Jul 18, 2009 7:39am Jul 18, 2009 7:39am
Like Xaron mentioned, we are in summer hollidays in most countries and the PA behavior is different than usual.

I'm more out than in at this season and consider a vacation during this time in the next year.

If your performance has been good before but suck now, don't worry too much, have a break and start over again.
  • #76
  • Jul 18, 2009 8:48am Jul 18, 2009 8:48am
Quoting yuan83
Defeat is not about losing, defeat is about giving up.
Are you saying as long as you never give up you're not defeated??? Soldier on regardless, that's one heck of a philosophy!

As a novice trader, what would it take for you to admit defeat? A few losses? A few months of losses? Bankruptcy? Destitution? At what point would you draw the line and say enough is enough?
  • #77
  • Jul 18, 2009 9:24am Jul 18, 2009 9:24am
Quoting Jhig
Clockwork, you hit it right on it's head! In a lot of cases, Less Is More! That statement is not only targeted towards simplifying your strategy, but stepping away from the trading screen from time to time. Also, trading less pairs, would be appropriate in our case.

Simplifying you strategy could include less indicators and more price action. Less "predicting" the market and more, "trading what you see" instead. Less guessing and more knowing at which way the market is heading. Less complicated and more simple!

Another, less...
good advice
  • #78
  • Jul 18, 2009 9:37am Jul 18, 2009 9:37am
Quoting pipmutt
Are you saying as long as you never give up you're not defeated??? Soldier on regardless, that's one heck of a philosophy!

As a novice trader, what would it take for you to admit defeat? A few losses? A few months of losses? Bankruptcy? Destitution? At what point would you draw the line and say enough is enough?
oh come on, it's abt how much u want to succeed. how much do u want? how much effort n time u want to put in this? only u can tell urself, it's e same as doing business.

if you are gambling n you lose, u can only blame urself
  • #79
  • Jul 18, 2009 10:36am Jul 18, 2009 10:36am
Quoting yuan83
oh come on, it's abt how much u want to succeed. how much do u want? how much effort n time u want to put in this?
Well lots of people put in the time and effort but they still don't succeed, no matter how much they want to.

Where would you draw the line and admit defeat?
  • #80
  • Jul 18, 2009 10:02pm Jul 18, 2009 10:02pm
Quoting pipmutt
Well lots of people put in the time and effort but they still don't succeed, no matter how much they want to.

Where would you draw the line and admit defeat?

that's back to how well u want to succeed, it's the same about doing anything. It depends on how well ur plan is and how u stick to it. And if you ask me why some succeed and some dun despite having the same plan, it's due to the psychology and fear and greed, as the turtles have shown it.

Whether u can win over urself on this, it's up to u urself, though I know I m not there yet.
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