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  • #41
  • Jul 11, 2009 9:54am Jul 11, 2009 9:54am
Quoting Ace284
I'm sorry but you have no idea what you're saying. I strongly suggest that you read your post again. You just stated that spread is nothing to worry about. That's one of the biggest error people make when scalping. I proved that spread does matter, mathematically in my excel document. Where's your proof? Yes you do start of with a debt of -2 pips or whatever the spread is when you open a long position. If its a short, then the spread will be added when you close the position.

Spread is nothing to worry about.....wow.

Here's a typical situation...
Yes, I wrote that there is no need to be worried about spread, and I mean it. Spread is just one of normal components with trading and we are, of course, aware of it. But to be worried...
If somebody is really going to backtest this system then he just needs to count that he was going to get 12-13-14 pips per trade not 10. And that's it.
And one more thing. With this system SL is not set beforehand. It means that exit (also our potential loss) is fixed only by market behaviour. If we count spread or if we are worried about it - it does not influence real situation and result at all.
I personally think that scalping contains smaller risks than trading longer timeframes. You just close your position manually in some minutes if their is a stronger move to the wrong direction. So, better is to start trading ASAP instead of endless backtesting.
  • #42
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:05am Jul 11, 2009 10:05am
Quoting DETrader
Ace, seeing as I started the whole thing I will chime in again. When backtesting you are correct, one must take into account the spread and thus should be looking for 10 pip + the spread moves to see if a trade truly hit its take profit level.

However you are slughtly wrong in that the spread gets added to a short position after the take profit is hit. I have used 4 major US retail brokers and all of them always put me in "debt" by the spread no matter the direction I took, it was never taken out of my profits.

So tp sum it all up, Ace is...
Well explained! And let us concentrate on trading not backtesting in this thread
Two possible ways to kill a thread:
1. Endless questions about how to put indicators to the charts etc.
2. Backtesting issues.
  • #43
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:10am Jul 11, 2009 10:10am
Quoting johnthom
Edge,

You state above...

3 - SM Trix (set at 12,3,false,1500 on the inputs tab). In the 'colors tab, make sure zero (0) is set to 'none'. Make #'s 1 and 2 the same colors as your bullish and bearish candlesticks.


Shouldn't it be...

3 - SM Trix (set at 3,0,false,1500 on the inputs tab). In the 'colors tab, make sure zero (0) is set to 'none'. Make #'s 1 and 2 the same colors as your bullish and bearish candlesticks.
Yep, my fault. The MA Ventans is 12,3. Trix is 3,,0.
  • #44
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:12am Jul 11, 2009 10:12am
Quoting Bobcat2
Hi Edge,

Do we wait for the 5 minute candle to close before entering a scalp trade? BTW, on first blush, it seems simply by entering/exiting when price crosses back and forth over the 12 LWMA can be profitable.

Thanks for sharing!
Bob
Yep, but many have a bit of trouble grasping that kind of simplicity. Much of the purpose of this thread will be to focus on indi elimination of concentrate on PA and ATR.
  • #45
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:17am Jul 11, 2009 10:17am
Quoting stevecartwright
If this helps anyone, be my guest
Thx for the assist Steve. Point to you sir.
  • #46
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:19am Jul 11, 2009 10:19am
Glad to see this thread of yours Edge, looking forward to your advise with your technique. Just a thought, i think it would be more productive for us all to sign on on this thread at the specific trading time and call live trades together, like a big trading family, as i said before just a thought..Good day!!
  • #47
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:26am Jul 11, 2009 10:26am
Quoting paradoxical
So already we have someone saying trading off a 5 minute chart and going for 10 pips is NOT scalping?? I suppose it's not a true scalp unless you trade from a one minute chart and go for two or three pips? Edge, for the purists, maybe you should rename the thread "Trading from a 5 minute chart and shooting for ten pips DAY trading system". Whatever anyone else might call it, I call it scalping. Not sure why it matters what it's called, though, as long as it works.
Neat, less than 12 hours and folks cannot even agree to disagree.

We have one saying the 5m is daytrading, one says backtesting does not account for spread, one seems threatened by the thread. This will last about a week.

Maybe true scalping to a purest is simply trading 100 lots on a 25 tic chart and garnishing 1/2 pip per trade. Been there don that.

Here is a idea, how about we actually demo trade the damn plan next week and see where the crumbs fall.

Looking for TRADERS not NAYSAYERS. Some of these folks are going to have to prove themselves here with actual trading results. 10 lots traded for 1 pip is $100 and couls care less about a pip or 2 spread.

Or 5 or 8 pip spreads for that matter. When you put your order in and set a TP at 10 pips then when it hits that target that is NET profit, not gross.

Again, this ought to be a hoot.
  • #48
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:36am Jul 11, 2009 10:36am
Quoting DETrader
Ace, seeing as I started the whole thing I will chime in again. When backtesting you are correct, one must take into account the spread and thus should be looking for 10 pip + the spread moves to see if a trade truly hit its take profit level.

However you are slughtly wrong in that the spread gets added to a short position after the take profit is hit. I have used 4 major US retail brokers and all of them always put me in "debt" by the spread no matter the direction I took, it was never taken out of my profits.

So tp sum it all up, Ace is...
I can see now that many folks backtest on those MT4 platforms. There are of course some other platforms that offer a bit more insight into a trading plans potential. Have already spent alot of time proofing up the method with trades in the EU/GB thread. Bunches from both a MT4 and TS8. No need to do all that again.

Have already mentioned many times before that I prefer one over the other. Get proficient with a chevy and you can the make enough to get a porshe.

Time to trade or time to fade!!!!!!! We shall see.

Regards.
  • #49
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:44am Jul 11, 2009 10:44am
[quote=Dibanos;2867316]
Quoting Edgetrader

My personal monetary goals are modest. I seek only enough trades to allow me to reach +2/-4% to account balance daily . . .

It means you are doing 10%/week, at least. It is equal to 40%/month. And compounding each month it means 5,600% per year!!.

Is it real? Or I am misunderstanding?


Congratulations for your tread.


Regards...
Best to trade the method for a week and judge for yourself the viability of such or not.

Lots of folks in the trading industry think 30% annual return is great. It is indeed if you have 1 million dollars or so working for you.

This thread is simply an instructional aide to help traders see a couple of alternative trading methods.

How much they trade or how much the make or lose is dependent on their trading psyche. I have seen great chartists who are lousy traders because they cannot push the plunger. Have also seen traders who think they can actually predict future PA and get their hats handed to them.

I do neither in my own trading. I simply look to isolate a good setup based on my own trading plan and make the trade. Lets leave the percentages alone for now and just trade the plan.

4 pairs to start with on Monday.

Regards.
  • #50
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:44am Jul 11, 2009 10:44am
Quoting Edgetrader
Yep, but many have a bit of trouble grasping that kind of simplicity. Much of the purpose of this thread will be to focus on indi elimination of concentrate on PA and ATR.

Hi edge,

nice that you open your own thread!

Is this "yep" the answer to the question "Do we wait for the 5 minute candle to close before entering a scalp trade?"

Plz tell me if we wait for close or if we pull the trigger directly when conditions meet?
  • #51
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:55am Jul 11, 2009 10:55am
Quoting Edgetrader
Neat, less than 12 hours and folks cannot even agree to disagree.
Ain't that the truth!

Quote
We have one saying the 5m is daytrading, one says backtesting does not account for spread, one seems threatened by the thread. This will last about a week.

Hopefully they will just shut up and demo or micro-trade the method! Proof is in the pudding!!

Quote
Here is a idea, how about we actually demo trade the damn plan next week and see where the crumbs fall.

Double ditto!!

Quote
Looking for TRADERS not NAYSAYERS. Some of these folks are going to have to prove themselves here with actual trading results. 10 lots traded for 1 pip is $100 and couls care less about a pip or 2 spread.

Or 5 or 8 pip spreads for that matter. When you put your order in and set a TP at 10 pips then when it hits that target that is NET profit, not gross.

Again, this ought to be a hoot.

Agree, spread is totally irrelevant because profit is profit! If I trade the GY with a 9 pip spread and cash out +10 pips, my profit is +10, pure & simple!

Hey Edge, after careful re-reading of your intro I think I now see what my mistake was last week (and I still finished the week in profit). but now I can't wait for Monday a.m. to see what happens this week!

And BTW I think your opening post was the BEST I have ever seen for a clear, concise yet thorough description of a trading methodology.

Those who want to make money will shut up, get serious and follow it to the letter. Suggesting tweaks & positive discussion will further enhance our efforts but carping over insignificant details and definitions will not.

Bottom line, folks, Edge makes a living doing this .. if you want to as well, give it a fair trial. If it is not for you, find a good thread on swing trading or another methodology. No trading style suits everyone.

And this is not a 'call' thread, we are here to learn to find our own fish. I think there may be some 'call' threads in the Interactive section.

Thanks again, Edge!


=========================================
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #52
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:55am Jul 11, 2009 10:55am
Pardon my bluntness, or even rudeness, but you people who seem compelled to come onto any new thread and criticize it from the very beginning, could you just all just shut up for at least one week, demo trade the system, and then, and only then, if the system truly doesn't work as claimed, come on back in here and rip it to shreds. But damn, at least give it a chance. And that's all I've got to say about that.
  • #53
  • Jul 11, 2009 10:56am Jul 11, 2009 10:56am
Quoting chriswalters
Glad to see this thread of yours Edge, looking forward to your advise with your technique. Just a thought, i think it would be more productive for us all to sign on on this thread at the specific trading time and call live trades together, like a big trading family, as i said before just a thought..Good day!!
Sounds fine Chris. I trade at a specific time as mentioned. When I am done trading my own account, I will drop in and check status.

Will leave it up to all you fine folks to find your footing here.

Regards.
  • #54
  • Jul 11, 2009 11:03am Jul 11, 2009 11:03am
Quoting elbablaster
Hi edge,

nice that you open your own thread!

Is this "yep" the answer to the question "Do we wait for the 5 minute candle to close before entering a scalp trade?"

Plz tell me if we wait for close or if we pull the trigger directly when conditions meet?
It is discretionary, however, if PA will allow a 5m candle to close first then that is a much better trade setup. You can review MANY of my trades in the EU/GB thread and see that I enter late quite often myself.

I would not put too much emphasis on 'perfect' entries. The ATR in these pairs easily provides some breathing room for entry. This is probability theory trading in practice, lets trade it and decide together if it has merit.

Regards.
  • #55
  • Jul 11, 2009 11:05am Jul 11, 2009 11:05am
Quoting 4xStar
Ain't that the truth!



Hopefully they will just shut up and demo or micro-trade the method! Proof is in the pudding!!



Double ditto!!



Agree, spread is totally irrelevant because profit is profit! If I trade the GY with a 9 pip spread and cash out +10 pips, my profit is +10, pure & simple!

Hey Edge, after careful re-reading of your intro I think I now see what my mistake was last week (and I still finished the week in profit). but now I can't wait for Monday a.m. to see what happens this week!

[b]And BTW I think your...
You bet.

Taking the rest of the weekend off.

Have edited front page to insure indi's have proper settings.

Lets get ready to rumble!!!!!!!!!
  • #56
  • Jul 11, 2009 11:16am Jul 11, 2009 11:16am
EdgeTrader,

See chart below:

(this is just an example of a possible trade set up...not an actual live trade taken)

Trigger 1 was 8-10 pips
Trigger 2 already had the smTrix in green and then reprimed it's self with the PA going above the 12 wma line again........

Would you have taken the second trade having already taken the first
Or would you have stayed in the first trade because the smTrix was still in the green area.

Thanks.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: trigger 2.gif Size: 46 KB
It's All About Attitude ...
  • #57
  • Jul 11, 2009 11:19am Jul 11, 2009 11:19am
Edgetrader, thanks so much again. I just want to learn the confidence and patience as you have in with your decision making with your trades. On monday as i stated before, at the specified time that you trade you should call some live trades that i can also confirm and build my confidence also..Greetings from Jamaica.
  • #58
  • Jul 11, 2009 11:20am Jul 11, 2009 11:20am
Quoting Edgetrader

Best to trade the method for a week and judge for yourself the viability of such or not.

4 pairs to start with on Monday.
I am in! Trading not backtesting
  • #59
  • Jul 11, 2009 11:27am Jul 11, 2009 11:27am
Quoting Indrek
I am in! Trading not backtesting
Me too! Forward testing only

Attached is another template for those who prefer white bg and I combined the MA Color Ventana with the Trix to save window space.
Download the indicators from the first page & this template should work.
Double check the input values.
Attached File(s)
File Type: tpl c4 scalper_whitebg.tpl   3 KB | 2,253 downloads
******************* I'd rather make money than be right.
  • #60
  • Jul 11, 2009 11:42am Jul 11, 2009 11:42am
Has anyone noticed how easy it seems to win pips while back testing a manual system, but it is never half that easy when forward testing in real time.
Why is that? Even when I slow down the visual back test to more like normal real time feed speed. Maybe it's just a patience/disciple thing, part of becoming a good fx day trader?
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