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NFA - "No more Limit or Stop Loss orders"

  • #221
  • Jul 9, 2009 5:10pm Jul 9, 2009 5:10pm
Quoting Jason Rogers
It sounds like you've heard my response before about not being able to give tax advice ....
great info thanks.
  • #222
  • Jul 9, 2009 5:36pm Jul 9, 2009 5:36pm
It sounds like you've heard my response before about not being able to give tax advice .

FXCM UK follows the same tax policy as FXCM US, no documents are sent out end of year. And you're right, some brokers do send tax documents at the end of the year and some don't, so please don't automatically apply FXCM's policy to your broker. Make sure to double check.

The closest thing I have found to tax advice for US residents trading with an overseas broker is this http://www.greencompany.com/Educatio...lTraderTax.pdf . jason rogers



GREAT INFO!! WAS WONDERING ABOUT TRADER TAX SPECIALIST.
  • #223
  • Jul 9, 2009 5:49pm Jul 9, 2009 5:49pm
Quoting butterball
someone dislikes MT4!!!
have to agree, it's war against robots. They are invading the financial system!!!
let your creative juices run, and I see a great movie....
(there are some great films on the way based on the present financial collapse.)
War against the robots....
The robots win!!!
  • #224
  • Edited 8:20pm Jul 9, 2009 6:08pm | Edited 8:20pm
Quoting SteveHopwood
Yes it is. A 'simple call' presumably results in obsfucation at best, downright lying at worst.

I trade baskets of trades using relative strength. I have written a successful robot to do this for me; others are using it with equal success.

Take the case where, for example, the JPY is weak against a basket of other currencies. Those pairs become buy against the JPY.

The basket can sometimes become 'stuck' in that it does not move in my favour for a few days, sometimes even weeks. Eventually, the basket will even out and return to a stage at which...
One of the benefits of "hedging the same currency in the same account" is the protection of margin. It is similar to strangle strategies in the options market. Why don't regulators do similar damage to options markets. No more strangles... Cannot open a call and put on the same stock at the same time...
Let's see how far that goes..............................
This no hedging, fifo, stuff is nonsense. This is not regulating markets.
The only thing that this will accomplish is to artificially restrict the natural flow of exchange. It serves to increase speculation. Now a trader (investor) has to take greater risk with no way to hedge possible losses. What a disservice these morons are doing.
How they can get away with this in forex!!!
This type of crap would never fly in the options markets.
(There is a market where options on currency pairs is traded, not familiar with it though... So for US accounts a way to hedge would be to do like equity traders, use options, write calls etc...
But forex moves so quickly, and the leverage on some accounts is so great this is not always practical strategy.)
Their so called regulations have simply put a road block.
Don't worry about UK, etc. accounts. They are not jumping so quickly on this band wagon...
  • #225
  • Edited 10:00pm Jul 9, 2009 9:24pm | Edited 10:00pm
jiva34 wrote. "There is a market where options on currency pairs is traded, not familiar with it though."
Those are options on currency futures and can be traded with InteractiveBrokers. Those options, depending on the expiration date, can be quite cheap. Banks use these all the time in their currency trading strategies. The big boys are hedging just as good as ever and will continue.
http://individuals.interactivebroker...?ib_entity=llc
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/fx/f...s_options.html

"Don't worry about UK, etc. accounts. They are not jumping so quickly on this band wagon."
I have the same feeling, they don't want capital to flow out at this time and won't change for the sake of change with a rule that does not accomplish anthing.
  • #226
  • Jul 10, 2009 12:12pm Jul 10, 2009 12:12pm
Here is something I noticed that is interesting. I trade with FXCM and have no complaints. In the face of the change to stops and limits, I have started playing with FXCM MT4 demo account.

The spreads are outrageous compared to my real account. Does FXCM charge higher spreads to UK held accounts than US held accounts. Right now, for example, the EJ spread is 1.2 pips in the real account, but it is 3.2 in the FXCM MT4 demo.
I se 1.4 EURUSD vs 2.4 in the MT4 Demo.

Has anyone else noticed higher spreads depending upon which platform or whether the account is FXCM or FXCM UK?
  • #227
  • Jul 10, 2009 12:40pm Jul 10, 2009 12:40pm
Quoting ddaytrader
Here is something I noticed that is interesting. I trade with FXCM and have no complaints. In the face of the change to stops and limits, I have started playing with FXCM MT4 demo account.

The spreads are outrageous compared to my real account. Does FXCM charge higher spreads to UK held accounts than US held accounts. Right now, for example, the EJ spread is 1.2 pips in the real account, but it is 3.2 in the FXCM MT4 demo.
I se 1.4 EURUSD vs 2.4 in the MT4 Demo.

Has anyone else noticed higher spreads depending upon which platform or whether...
hi ddaytrader,

The spread is the same whether you go through FXCM US or FXCM UK.

The most likely reason for seeing a difference in the spread is if you are comparing a micro account with the MT4 account. Spreads on the micro account are 1-2 pips tighter on average than the MT4 accounts since FXCM Micro is our discount brokerage. Micro provides tighter spreads since there is no live support by phone or chat.

Jason
  • #228
  • Jul 10, 2009 12:50pm Jul 10, 2009 12:50pm
Quoting Jason Rogers
hi ddaytrader,

The spread is the same whether you go through FXCM US or FXCM UK.

The most likely reason for seeing a difference in the spread is if you are comparing a micro account with the MT4 account. Spreads on the micro account are 1-2 pips tighter on average than the MT4 accounts since FXCM Micro is our discount brokerage. Micro provides tighter spreads since there is no live support by phone or chat.

Jason
So if one does not need the MT4 platform, then it would be better to stay with Micro, rather than standard.

If it is not out of bounds for this forum to ask, what advanatages would switching to a standard 10K account have over staying with micro?

Thank you,

ddaytrader
  • #229
  • Jul 10, 2009 1:20pm Jul 10, 2009 1:20pm
If you are not making a deposit that will bring the account balance more than 5k, micro is a good option as the spreads are very good. I also demoed the MT4 UK and you are right on the spreads being higher, the EURUSD on the MT4 UK is around 2.6 to 3 pips most of the time. However, I have experienced ZERO requotes and the trades are executed immeditately. I would say that even with the larger spreads you make up for it with the no requotes and execution. I contacted FXCM about the larger spreads and they said something about the spread being 1/10 of a pip higher to compensate Boston Technoligies, but the spread is in fact more than 1/10 of a pip higher, even when compared to a standard account. Hope FXCM can work on this spread cause it is wider than they say to compensate Boston Tech.

Quoting ddaytrader
So if one does not need the MT4 platform, then it would be better to stay with Micro, rather than standard.

If it is not out of bounds for this forum to ask, what advanatages would switching to a standard 10K account have over staying with micro?

Thank you,

ddaytrader
  • #230
  • Jul 10, 2009 1:36pm Jul 10, 2009 1:36pm
Quoting wwwin
If you are not making a deposit that will bring the account balance more than 5k, micro is a good option as the spreads are very good. I also demoed the MT4 UK and you are right on the spreads being higher, the EURUSD on the MT4 UK is around 2.6 to 3 pips most of the time. However, I have experienced ZERO requotes and the trades are executed immeditately. I would say that even with the larger spreads you make up for it with the no requotes and execution. I contacted FXCM about the larger spreads and they said something about the spread being 1/10...
I think if the account is over 5K, then you have to do standard 10k. But the account balance can go higher than 5k in a micro account is it is due to profits.

I had a lot of requotes with FXCM years ago, but I do not remeber the last time I experienced a requote. With forex.com, every order seemed to first have to go through 20 requotes before I'd get a fill.

I wish FXCM would still provide for bracket orders, where I could set a buy stop with an attached stop loss and take profit order. I trade futures as well, and my futures broker, also an NFA member, provides for bracket orders. I do think FXCM could have kept the auto stop loss and take profits and just programmed the platform to execute FIFO by averaging the positions together. Again, this is what futures brokers do - avergage the positions. Perhaps FCM ought to talk to their Futures Brokerage cousins before dismantling a system that is available inthe US for stocks, options, and futures. The OCO is not a good replacement unless FXCM makes it possible to have contingent OCO, i.e. if Buy Stop executed, then the OCO stop loss and limit become activated. My futures brokers both offer this as well. The technology exists, and it is not necessary to make life more difficult for customers.
  • #231
  • Jul 10, 2009 1:48pm Jul 10, 2009 1:48pm
Yeah, as long as the account does not go over 5k due to a deposit, then profits can take it higher and u dont have to withdraw. Regarding bracket, try interactivebrokers, there are more order types there than you could learn in a year. lol. You can trade futures, ie gold oil etc thru the same account, and even options on forex futures and use the equity for any type of instrument on the combined account. Downside is forex margin currently is 40:1 but spreads are great and execution even better, is an ECN. They are a member of FINRA so they may have to lower the margin or do something else.

Quoting ddaytrader
I think if the account is over 5K, then you have to do standard 10k. But the account balance can go higher than 5k in a micro account is it is due to profits.

I had a lot of requotes with FXCM years ago, but I do not remeber the last time I experienced a requote. With forex.com, every order seemed to first have to go through 20 requotes before I'd get a fill.

I wish FXCM would still provide for bracket orders, where I could set a buy stop with an attached stop loss and take profit order. I trade futures as well, and my futures broker, also...
  • #232
  • Jul 10, 2009 2:52pm Jul 10, 2009 2:52pm
Quoting ddaytrader
I think if the account is over 5K, then you have to do standard 10k. But the account balance can go higher than 5k in a micro account is it is due to profits.

I had a lot of requotes with FXCM years ago, but I do not remeber the last time I experienced a requote. With forex.com, every order seemed to first have to go through 20 requotes before I'd get a fill.

I wish FXCM would still provide for bracket orders, where I could set a buy stop with an attached stop loss and take profit order. I trade futures as well, and my futures broker, also...
I'll take note of your requests. The functionality you mentioned has come up frequently as a request now that we're instituting OCO orders.

The requotes would have occurred back in 2006 whenever execution was through a dealing desk; however, this changed since our execution model has changed to no dealing desk and the orders are passed through to the banks.

For micro balances, I've seen some micro accounts well over $5k. As a general rule of thumb, you won't be forced to move, but the additional levels of service are typically worth it.
  • #233
  • Jul 10, 2009 4:17pm Jul 10, 2009 4:17pm
Quoting Jason Rogers
I'll take note of your requests. The functionality you mentioned has come up frequently as a request now that we're instituting OCO orders.
That is good to hear, and I do hope FXCM decides to provide this functionalisty sooner rather than later.


Quoting Jason Rogers
The requotes would have occurred back in 2006 whenever execution was through a dealing desk; however, this changed since our execution model has changed to no dealing desk and the orders are passed through to the banks.
As I said, I cannot remember how long it has been since I suffered a requote from FXCM. My orders are always immediately executed.

My only concern right now is that I will have to pass on many trading opportunities that arise when I am unable to to be sitting in front of the computer. If FXCM had wireless capability with mobile email alerts, that would also help, though bracket orders would, of course, be preferable.

Thank you for the information,

ddaytrader
  • #234
  • Jul 10, 2009 4:59pm Jul 10, 2009 4:59pm
Ddaytrader, hopefully they will listen to the very good suggestion you made. Have a good weekend and keep up the good suggestions if you have more.

P.S. I am surprised that the clowns have not posted insinuating that both you and I work for this broker.
  • #235
  • Edited 5:58pm Jul 10, 2009 5:33pm | Edited 5:58pm
Quoting wwwin
Yeah, as long as the account does not go over 5k due to a deposit, then profits can take it higher and u dont have to withdraw. Regarding bracket, try interactivebrokers, there are more order types there than you could learn in a year. lol. You can trade futures, ie gold oil etc thru the same account, and even options on forex futures and use the equity for any type of instrument on the combined account. Downside is forex margin currently is 40:1 but spreads are great and execution even better, is an ECN. They are a member of FINRA so they may have...
fx solutions now trade gold silver........ has anyone transferred their account to fx solutions to austrailia?
my opinon those transferring overseas perhaps should keep an account here in the US as well or have two for reasons already discuss in other posts.
  • #236
  • Edited 7:41pm Jul 10, 2009 6:32pm | Edited 7:41pm
Not familiar with them and went to their site... can trade down to 1 oz. in spot gold and 200:1 leverage in gold? Never heard of that before. That has to be off exchange traded gold, similar to spot forex? Do they trade against you? Has anyone traded with this co. especially gold using MT4?
Another one closes US to MT4, it looks as if currently they won't open a US MT4 new account, only Australia. But Compliance Rule 2-43 only applies to forex orders...they are throwing out the baby with the bathwater...What a headache this rule is.

Quoting wapminnin
fx solutions now trade gold silver........ has anyone transferred their account to fx solutions to austrailia?
my opinon those transferring overseas perhaps should keep an account here in the US as well or have two for reasons already discuss in other posts.
  • #237
  • Jul 10, 2009 8:09pm Jul 10, 2009 8:09pm
So lets say I place an entry order to buy at 1.5000

I want my tp level to be 1.5050 and my sl to be 1.4950


Under the new rule....I have to place 2 additional entry sell orders at the same lot size at 1.5050 and 1.4950 so that I can exit?


What if my entry buy order is never hit but the price drops to 1.4950?

Do I end up getting in on that unprotected sell entry order that I don't even want?



Folks...I'm telling you right now....as much advantage as those people have over us already...I am very close to being done with retail forex in the US. Swiss and UK regulated brokers may be the way to go.

We will go from low shot to no shot if they take away our stop loses and take profit levels. The only way to get by this would be to trade weekly charts...something like the r Dochian 4 week high low method. As for day trading though...it does not look good.

Sometimes I feel like we are sitting ducks soon to be dead ones.
  • #238
  • Edited 11:00pm Jul 10, 2009 8:58pm | Edited 11:00pm
Unless your broker will allow TP and SL after 8-1-09 I don't think that you should place entry orders away from the current price and leave the computer unless you also have the ability to enter a contingent OCO that would only be submitted if your entry order is triggered, otherwise your fears can come to fruition. More evidence that contingent orders should be made available by the brokers that will not allow TP and SL.

Brokers wars coming soon to a nearby theatre:
1. FXCM interprets the rule as prohibiting SL and TP at any time. Introduces OCO on their proprietary platform. No more MT4 US, says go UK for MT4 and full functionality. Tax issue may arise. If you don't report offshore account over 10K to uncle sam, heavy penalty. Only allows withdrawals from UK accounts by wire, paper trail of offshore account.
2. IBFX wants to be cute, will allow SL and TP on first order or if subsequent orders are for different amount. Let's see if they can get away with it.
3. FXDD thows a jab at brokers trying to move accounts offshore and at brokers recently adding MT4 as an alternative to proprietary software. "They try to amplify the uncertainty and to play on the customers' fears. It is unclear if they are well equipped to maintain a properly operating MT4 platform in these jurisdictions." LOL. Who are they referring to and how do they know how much testing took place??? Does FXDD have offshore offices??? Says no gloom occured when no hedging rule became effective. Are they serious, can FIFO and no hedging by itslef be compared?
4. FXSolution directs all MT4 new account applications to the Australian office. Same IRS issues.

Metaquotes has not offered a solution yet...EAs will have to be reprogrammed after they make a decision.

Stay tuned, only the nimble and proactive brokers will win clients.

Quoting 60minman
So lets say I place an entry order to buy at 1.5000

I want my tp level to be 1.5050 and my sl to be 1.4950


Under the new rule....I have to place 2 additional entry sell orders at the same lot size at 1.5050 and 1.4950 so that I can exit?


What if my entry buy order is never hit but the price drops to 1.4950?

Do I end up getting in on that unprotected sell entry order that I don't even want?



Folks...I'm telling you right now....as much advantage as those people have over us already...I am very close to being done with retail forex...
  • #239
  • Jul 10, 2009 9:37pm Jul 10, 2009 9:37pm
Quoting wwwin
Brokers wars coming soon to a nearby theatre ...
Stay tuned, only the nimble and proactive brokers will win clients.
If they choose to be competitive, then I would say you are right. If all US Fx dealers decide to eliminate the SL and TP, then we will have to adjust or move offshore.

I really hope FXCM does the right thing and allows SL and TP, at least for the first order. I generally an "all in" at entry, and even allowing for the first order would solve the problem for those who trade similarly.
  • #240
  • Edited Jul 11, 2009 10:34am Jul 10, 2009 9:49pm | Edited Jul 11, 2009 10:34am
With TSII, they could allow SL and TP on all orders if they choose to combine all orders into one aggregate position on the client end, and deduct sells from it or add buys to it. In their end, they can keep orders separate for FIFO purposes and close as much of the orders as needed in FIFO order according to your triggered closing orders. When you close, they can close the earlier opened orders in FIFO order. I do like contingent OCO orders so they should implement that, as you have more choices. They could really do it all. Some brokers now do. Let's see if they step up to the plate on this one. I don't want to go UK if I can avoid it. If would be for their benefit to pay attention, as this turmoil gives them a chance to pick up clients.

Quoting ddaytrader
If they choose to be competitive, then I would say you are right. If all US Fx dealers decide to eliminate the SL and TP, then we will have to adjust or move offshore.

I really hope FXCM does the right thing and allows SL and TP, at least for the first order. I generally an "all in" at entry, and even allowing for the first order would solve the problem for those who trade similarly.
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