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  • #101
  • Jul 2, 2009 7:04am Jul 2, 2009 7:04am
Quoting aquaart
I presently trade with www.gomarketsaus.com , because I was fooled by their 'ECN Style', which is not a true ECN at all.

Hence I am presently looking at nordmarkets, as they are a true ECN, without the silly NFA rules.

hi aquaart,

tried 2 find a uk based ecn broker but can't find any. i was going through the list of brokers on your first post. checked out nordmarkets and broco but have not contacted any 4 more info.

any info u can share on these 2? nord is european based but the funny thing is that. u can only trade ecn if u have a 10k acct with them. lower than that amount n you're trading on fixed spreads. just like at a bucketshop. which kinds of make me a little bit wary. also, i think they only accept deposit in euros.

broco has a representative in my country. but seems like only a website and as there're russians. makes people a little bit wary also. thanks
  • #102
  • Jul 2, 2009 7:13am Jul 2, 2009 7:13am
Quoting winningfx
hi aquaart,

tried 2 find a uk based ecn broker but can't find any. i was going through the list of brokers on your first post. checked out nordmarkets and broco but have not contacted any 4 more info.
nordmarkets I am demo-ing with them at the moment.

Their spreads are not as good MBTrading or ATCBrokers. (commissions)
But normally better than GoMarketsaus. (No commissions)

Execution in demo is fine.

London servers but headquaters are in Sweden and regulated in Sweden

Scalpers are fine

They want to remain an MT4 broker, and allow hedging / counter trend trading

If you include their commissions and turn the commission into a pip value, they are more expensive than GoMarkets during London and NY sessions. Have not looked at the Tokyo Session.
  • #103
  • Jul 2, 2009 8:34am Jul 2, 2009 8:34am
I just spoke with my Broker (FXPRO.com) and they are very happy about new NFA regs in US-their business is about to double. They will offer MT5 sometime after its release(and debugging) but side by side with MT4. At at 1st. So good news for anyone wanting to bail on US Forex Brokers and looking for alternative to other Brokers.
FF = Forex Faggots
  • #104
  • Jul 2, 2009 9:08am Jul 2, 2009 9:08am
Quoting aquaart
nordmarkets I am demo-ing with them at the moment.

Their spreads are not as good MBTrading or ATCBrokers. (commissions)
But normally better than GoMarketsaus. (No commissions)

Execution in demo is fine.

London servers but headquaters are in Sweden and regulated in Sweden

Scalpers are fine

They want to remain an MT4 broker, and allow hedging / counter trend trading

If you include their commissions and turn the commission into a pip value, they are more expensive than GoMarkets during London and NY sessions. Have not looked at the Tokyo...

hi aquaart,

thanks 4 the info appreciate it. can u give some figures regarding their spreads n commission when you're demoling them. thanks
  • #105
  • Jul 2, 2009 9:10am Jul 2, 2009 9:10am
Quoting 8fingers
I just spoke with my Broker (FXPRO.com) and they are very happy about new NFA regs in US-their business is about to double. They will offer MT5 sometime after its release(and debugging) but side by side with MT4. At at 1st. So good news for anyone wanting to bail on US Forex Brokers and looking for alternative to other Brokers.

hi 8fingers,

can u tell us your experience with fxpro?? also, since there're sticking with mt platform. r they going 2 follow the rules by the nfa? thanks
  • #106
  • Jul 2, 2009 9:39am Jul 2, 2009 9:39am
Quoting winningfx
hi 8fingers,

can u tell us your experience with fxpro?? also, since there're sticking with mt platform. r they going 2 follow the rules by the nfa? thanks
My experience with FXPRO.com has been far better than with ANY US based Broker I have ever had.(4-5 US based Brokers before FXPRO.com) And by far better I mean just average. They have delivered what they had promised,so far.I have never had a "MysterySpike" or any unresolved issue that cuased me to loose money. Their withdrawal policy is VERY rigid and quarky but they have NEVER failed to honor one. They are not going to follow those ridiculous regulations.(In fact, they applaud the NFA for driving more business their way).
They will continue to offer MT4 platform but at some point will also offer MT5.I think(though not confirmed) they are waiting to see that this new version actually works w/o major bugs. I use this Broker over my US Broker(MBT) now ,only because MBT is more expensive to open small trades. I do like MBT though and no major problems there either.(except for their unfortunate location) All in all,I am happy with both but will be closing my account with MBT as soon as they are forced to comply. I am NOT promoting FXPRO.com by any means-I used to be a very gung-ho Pro everything American. Not anymore though. How UNBELIEVABLE that I have to trade offshore, send money offshore and have to trust strangers in a strange land, just accomplish this! I hope some US Brokers diss these Regs as the NFA is really just a laughable ,spineless collection of overpaid do-nothings. Go FXDD!
FF = Forex Faggots
  • #107
  • Jul 3, 2009 7:54am Jul 3, 2009 7:54am
Quoting winningfx
hi aquaart,

thanks 4 the info appreciate it. can u give some figures regarding their spreads n commission when you're demoling them. thanks
It seems that the MT4 brokers in other places around the world are thankful to the USA's stupid NFA rules...


nordmarkets
$5 per 1 lot round trip on EURUSD
$0.50 per 0.1 lot round trip on EURUSD

Spreads on Friday at 1 hour after USD opening are below
Attached Image
  • #108
  • Jul 3, 2009 10:30am Jul 3, 2009 10:30am
thanks aquaart n 8fingers 4 the added info. greatly appreciate it.
  • #109
  • Jul 3, 2009 1:45pm Jul 3, 2009 1:45pm
Thats bad news indeed.
  • #110
  • Edited 5:48am Jul 5, 2009 5:34am | Edited 5:48am
hi aquaart,

i was checking out nordmarkets n pronetfx. i found that they both used the same information on their websites. click the "about the company", "ecn trading info" and " regulations" button" on their site. some part r word 4 word!!

i was talking 2 their customer service on friday. the fellow asked me 2 try their demo. i said demo n live r different. the fellow in a frustrating tone. just said try their demo, then get back 2 him!! then when i asked about the server part. the fellow said he had no knowledge of this. gotta talk to the sales department, which is offline. after awhile just left the chat without informing. kinda rude.
  • #111
  • Jul 5, 2009 5:48am Jul 5, 2009 5:48am
Quoting winningfx
hi aquaart,

i was checking out nordmarkets n pronetfx. i found that they both used the same information on their websites. click the "about the company", "ecn trading info" and " regulations" button" on their site. some part r word 4 word!!
That is suspiciuous if both of them has no relation, may be they're using the same template for their site

Btw isn't this thread topic is MT5 thing?
  • #112
  • Jul 5, 2009 5:54am Jul 5, 2009 5:54am
Quoting AdamN
That is suspiciuous if both of them has no relation, may be they're using the same template for their site

Btw isn't this thread topic is MT5 thing?

would like 2 have this conversation about brokers with aquaart in pm mode. but he shut it off, so we discuss this topic in this thread. if he's fine with it, then i think it's ok.
  • #113
  • Edited 11:26pm Jul 5, 2009 11:10pm | Edited 11:26pm
Quoting AdamN
That is suspiciuous if both of them has no relation, may be they're using the same template for their site

Btw isn't this thread topic is MT5 thing?
Yes you're right....

The opening post also encouraged people to stick to their non-NFA MT4 broker, unless MT5 can change their platform for the rest of the non-USA world of forex trading.

By the way over 30% of forex market is based in London, and it is almost double the next biggest NY. So it really does not make sense for MT5 to be looking after the USA market only if they want to tap into the bigger and greater number of customers in London / Europe.
I would suggest the MT5 developers:
consider changing the order execution style for the rest of the world.
consider updating their programming interface to make MQL4 translatable into MQL5 (like they originally promised).

other wise brokers with non metaquotes platforms may become a much better alternative, if the trader cannot have some continuity and reliability in the platform change over process.

@winningfx -- Prontfx could just be a part of white labelling broker programme that they have signed up for or vice versa. They could also be linked brokers like: ODLMarkets.co.uk and axisODL.com.au, which means one of them is alternative trader for the other. In ECN trading this only enhance trade fulfillment possibility.
Or one has just copied the other's website.

Other than that no real explanation for it.
  • #114
  • Jul 5, 2009 11:52pm Jul 5, 2009 11:52pm
Hi folks,
I read this in another forum, my words are red, the other person's is black. It seems like the NFA are bunch non-trading idiots making up trading rules.


On April 29th, I wrote an article about some new NFA rules . They ended hedging with NFA registered brokers (bad), and also restricted the ability of brokers to wreck profits by claiming price feed errors (extremely good).

Everyone was so focused on the hedging part that some of the implications of the wording got overlooked. There was a little detail about FIFO (first in, first out). I assumed this was only talking about hedges. Evidently, the NFA FIFO rule has some more implications. FPA member Pratomo posted some info from FXCM about the problems in the forums 2 days ago and I've done a little more digging. I don't think most forex traders are going to like how this will affect trading with NFA registered brokers.

It seems that the NFA plans to apply FIFO to ALL positions on a currency pair., not just old hedged trades This means if you have 2 separate sell orders on the USDJPY, you can't close the 2nd one you opened before closing the first order. You can only close them in the order that you opened them (or all at once). No more running a long- term strategy on an account and using the same account for a little bit of day trading. I don't know if this was something the NFA intended or if it's something that one of their over-zealous regulators suddenly realized he could foist off on on all of us by deliberately misinterpreting the original intent of an already poorly designed set of regulations.

It gets worse. Much worse. Stop losses and take profits apply to individual orders. If this is implemented, you won't be able to set a proper stop loss or take profit on any platform with an NFA registered broker after July 31st, 2009. Some platforms allow you to set up a pair of OCO orders. These will act as SL and TP, but only for the size of position you set them to. If your total positions on a pair comes to 2.4 lots, you'll need to set your OCO to 2.4 lots if you want everything to close. There are 2 drawbacks. First, you need to set up the OCS (or set of OCOs) to the correct amount to cover all your positions without going over or under. Second, if you miscalculate your risk and get a margin call before hitting the OCOs, those OCOs will still be waiting to be activated, thus risking a 2nd margin call.

And finally, the worst of the worst for those of us who really like to use MT4. MetaTrader 4 doesn't work this way. Currently, brokers don't seem to accept pending orders that would make your position on a pair neutral because of the NFA's anti-hedging rules. So yes these rules affect break out traders who are with NFA regulated brokers in a big way. The end effect of this is that if you trade with MT4 and open a second position on a pair, there won't be any way to set a stoploss. Unless the people at MetaQuotes do something about this, you probably won't be able to have a stoploss on even a single position.

Since SL, TP, and the ability to close individual orders in any order are built into MT4, it is possible that NFA regulated brokers may not even be able to offer trading through MT4 starting on August 1st, 2009.

If this rule happens and MT4 remains usable, the only thing I'll be using any of my NFA brokers for is long term, super-low leverage position trades. All the rest of my trading will be moved to non-NFA brokers outside the USA. If they really wipe out MT4, I'll be defunding my USA accounts and moving everything offshore (ok, I'm “forex platform challenged” and I admit it).

The NFA claims that these rules will make it easier to keep track of their positions – even though this strips out stoplosses from MT4 and complicates them on other platforms. It looks like the NFA wants it to be easier to see why traders get margin called rather of helping traders prevent margin calls.

Is the NFA really intend on destroying retail forex in this country? Do they really want to take money out of the USA and send it overseas? I don't know what they really mean to do, but it's not hard to see what the real consequences are. My only hope is that someone in charge at the NFA realizes that this is an amazingly stupid thing to do and stops it from happening.

If this is true, and you are with an NFA regulated MT4 broker you are totally stuffed, make a run for another country ASAP (Aug 1st this year). But because these rules apply to all brokers that are NFA regulated, you could say that you are stuffed if you stay with an NFA broker.
  • #115
  • Jul 6, 2009 2:37am Jul 6, 2009 2:37am
Quoting aquaart
Hi folks,
I read this in another forum, my words are red, the other person's is black. It seems like the NFA are bunch non-trading idiots making up trading rules.

...

If this is true, and you are with an NFA regulated MT4 broker you are totally stuffed, make a run for another country ASAP (Aug 1st this year). But because these rules apply to all brokers that are NFA regulated, you could say that you are stuffed if you stay with an NFA broker.
Yes, it's true, it also has been discussed in this forum.

Eventhough some US brokers saying they will still allows stop/limit order, but this means they will violate NFA rules, and it will be too risky for traders to invest their money in a platform that violates regulator rules

Btw, i also wonder why NFA keeps making rules that will makes traders moving their money to outside USA
may be USA already have too much Dollars LOL
  • #116
  • Jul 7, 2009 12:58am Jul 7, 2009 12:58am
I've been told in the past that traders that use Sell Limit and Buy Limit as entry methods are more likely to be successful traders.


Whatever the case is your trading is forcefully changed by the NFA or MT5 platform. It appears with MT5 brokers:

  1. entry point is changed and your break even for individual trades can no longer be predicted on a simple trade by trade basis.
  2. OR your exit points are limited beyond reason.

It appears that MT5 have decided that point 1 is the lesser of the two evils.
Is this the case?
Anyone with greater knowledge of MT5 platform trade handling?

 

  1. So if Questions 1 and 2 on the picture below are true, the little red * is the only point where all 4 trades could be exited with some profit. How can this be helping the trader?

Your exits will be limited because your SELLs are not holding one position overall but a number of individual positions, hence Sell Limit 1 would have to be exited before Sell Limit 2 FIFO.

  1. If question 3 is true and you scale into your trade with Entry 1 being the smallest then your exit point for everything in profit is probably about the green line.

FIFO avoided for the trader, and although MT5 brokers will probably do this automatically, your actual entry price will need to be manipulated to adjust for your scaled in overall position. This affects your break even point.

  1. If question 3 is true and you scale into your trade with Entry 4 being the smallest then your exit point for everything in profit is probably about the blue line.

Again, FIFO avoided for the trader, and although MT5 brokers will probably do this automatically, your actual entry price will need to be manipulated to adjust for your scaled in overall position. This affects your break even point.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: One Position Trading.jpg Size: 69 KB
  • #117
  • Jul 10, 2009 12:09pm Jul 10, 2009 12:09pm
The law of supply and demand by which we trade, always comes into play no matter how many rules are made. Consider that the brokers do have to pay for MT5. When they lose business with MT5 or with NFA they WILL change.
  • #118
  • Edited 1:03am Jul 11, 2009 12:02am | Edited 1:03am
Bro, they have to do it this way to be FIFO compliant with NFA members brokers and the other exchanges that it will accomodate. You will be able to place SL and TP in all orders with it. Me does not like NFA but have no choice but to like MT5 b/c it will allow SL and TP on all orders!!

Quoting aquaart
Here is the review that I read.
http://www.fx1618.com/mt4/mt5-a.html

And the picture below that they use says what I said above. Except they say it nicely.
  • #119
  • Jul 16, 2009 5:23pm Jul 16, 2009 5:23pm
Quoting wwwin
Bro, they have to do it this way to be FIFO compliant with NFA members brokers and the other exchanges that it will accomodate. You will be able to place SL and TP in all orders with it. Me does not like NFA but have no choice but to like MT5 b/c it will allow SL and TP on all orders!!
I think you really miss the point. In any market if I buy, hypothetically, something for $5 and I have a sales contract signed by the customer for $10, I can use that credit to buy more goods, pay taxes etc. Now the brokers are stealing my line of hedged credit and stuffing theor own pockets with it. This is why they can suddenly meet capitilization requirements of $30million. They're stealing the equity from your and my accounts, $5 in this example, and raising requirements with the NFA to eliminate competition. With the FIFO requirement it's even more probable that you will lose, and since they're the counterparty they win even more.

The brokers steal your credit forcing you to pay cash. If everyone played by the rules of a cash economy that might be less unfair. But they're using your money against you to play even bigger schemes to steal more of your money in the future. This is only the beginning of the slippery slope that will culminate in the demise of the US empire. Already USA is becomming a non-player in FOREX in just a few short years after it sprung like mushrooms in the rain.
  • #120
  • Jul 21, 2009 3:15pm Jul 21, 2009 3:15pm
this must suck for all brokers that use mt4, and even worse for traders that got used the mt4
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