NFA - "No more Limit or Stop Loss orders" | Page 5 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Buy Stop Limit and Sell Stop Limit Orders on MT4 6 replies

Auto SL/TP & buy limit, sell limit/buy stop, sell stop EA/indi 2 replies

Difference between buy limit, sell limit, buy stop, & sell stop? 4 replies

NFA New Rule Not allowing stop and limit orders 74 replies

NFA Rule "No Stop/Limit Orders" Not for all US Brokers 8 replies

Attachments: NFA - "No more Limit or Stop Loss orders"
Exit Attachments

NFA - "No more Limit or Stop Loss orders"

  • #81
  • Edited 4:12am Jul 3, 2009 3:44am | Edited 4:12am
What i currently understand is:

1. These rules don't kill the retail trader ,especially the old one. They may decrease the participation of new traders. But for those that truly want to learn ,it will actually be a blessing of some kind ,since they will be more carefull not to lose money faster ,because of the low leverage-high margin-big first deposit.

2. Our trading doesn't get very affected. There will only be a change of position trading timing. Scalpers are ok ,Intraday are ok ,longterm are ok. It is my opinion that the best ,most safe ,most accurate and most manageable money management is always FIFO type.

3. These rules will "force" people to learn how to read the market better.
Better entry timing = less stoploss stress ,better exit analysis = FIFO order management. It is what the behaviour of the markets accept better anyway.

4. People will look at multiple timeframes and will trade more styles from shortterm to longterm ,which is always a FIFO type of trading. They will not open positions from reading a few timeframes ,messing up the timing ,but every position will have it's specific lifespan and identity. More accurate trading.

-----------

If they want to make people poorer ,they will only manage to make people more disciplined. And they will never ever totally kick off the retail trader ,for they will lose ,except if the plan is extreme poverty in every sector ,to make us all slaves. They have money anyway.

-----------

And a stupid question:

If we can not close orders from the open positions window ,how do we close them?
  • #82
  • Jul 3, 2009 10:39am Jul 3, 2009 10:39am
Quoting price
Another question is..... Why is Mr. Jason Rogers, Ambassador to FXCM, now "Temporarily Suspended by a Senior Member" ????
I also find this to be....interesting. But, all I can do is shrug my shoulders. The moderators run this forum pretty well, and I can only conclude that they must have some sort of problem or issue and things are being "discussed" behind the scenes. Time will tell!
  • #83
  • Jul 3, 2009 11:53am Jul 3, 2009 11:53am
" However, in a net-based system such as GFT’s, when a trader enters a new position in a market where he or she already holds a position, the new position is simply added to the old position and the prices are averaged. So it’s not possible to hold multiple positions in the same pair and therefore it is not possible to violate the FIFO rule."


" To circumvent the new rule, some dealers are asking customers to move their accounts to divisions in the UK where the NFA has no jurisdiction. However, Tilkin questions this practice because he believes the NFA rule is designed to offer better protection for traders."

It's still not clear why is this a "better" protection, and from what?


Full article: http://www.gftforex.com/about/2009-a...090702-NFA.asp


Attila
  • #84
  • Jul 3, 2009 12:22pm Jul 3, 2009 12:22pm
Interesting article referenced above. GFT "averages" prices??? Let me see if I understand this-

Suppose I go LONG one contract of the "xyz" currency pair at price....oh....I'll say a price of 1.5000. And, then, days later, I decide to go LONG a second contract of this same currency pair at market price of....1.5500. (a 500 pip increase from my first contract)

Does this mean that GFT will list me as having two contracts at....1.5250??? (the average of the two contracts) Is this what GFT does?
  • #85
  • Jul 3, 2009 2:03pm Jul 3, 2009 2:03pm
Quoting Madmax1952
I am at a loss to understand why NFA is doing all this, except to say that they are trying to kill all FOREX speculators (retail traders).

Every good trader and trading method starts with money management and the motto "always place a stop loss when you enter a trade to control your risk."

Now they are taking this away! WTF?

Forex as we knew it is OVER.

Guess I'll start looking into binary options.

Thanks OBAMA and all you SOCIALIST MF's

Mad as hell, Madmax!


Many things as we know them are going to be over. You ain't seen nothin' yet brother. You'll yearn for the days of GW, and so will the "hope and change" sheeple.
  • #86
  • Jul 3, 2009 2:49pm Jul 3, 2009 2:49pm
Quoting Ghostman
Interesting article referenced above. GFT "averages" prices??? Let me see if I understand this-

Suppose I go LONG one contract of the "xyz" currency pair at price....oh....I'll say a price of 1.5000. And, then, days later, I decide to go LONG a second contract of this same currency pair at market price of....1.5500. (a 500 pip increase from my first contract)

Does this mean that GFT will list me as having two contracts at....1.5250??? (the average of the two contracts) Is this what GFT does?


Yes, that means you have 1 position (of two contracts combined) at 1.5250. So you can close this 1 (combined position) at once. No FIFO applies! Smart ....
  • #87
  • Jul 3, 2009 3:14pm Jul 3, 2009 3:14pm
Quoting Bryan
Many things as we know them are going to be over. You ain't seen nothin' yet brother. You'll yearn for the days of GW, and so will the "hope and change" sheeple.

Wow, no reason for the conspiracy theories, just a change in accounting procedures is all. One little change and everyone freaks!

The Forex market started out a largely unregulated market, some of the principles (FIFO, leverage limits, etc.) that have been around forever in other markets (equities, futures, etc.) are just now trickling into Forex. I think it is actually a positive sign, that the market is becoming a more mature market. So the teenagers with a demo account might bellyache, but the real traders are OK with some regulation.

Holy crap, what's next? They might lower my leverage a little bit, that would signal the end of the world for sure!!!

Smoke
  • #88
  • Jul 3, 2009 3:33pm Jul 3, 2009 3:33pm
Quoting butterball
but why the scare tactic, are they preparing for something?
Yes, I think they are trying to move clients to UK in anticipation of more NFA rules further limiting US brokers...way to go NFA, US unemployment to continue to grow.
  • #89
  • Jul 3, 2009 3:40pm Jul 3, 2009 3:40pm
OCO spread is same as old limit stop loss, the order cancelled does not pay spread

Quoting Madmax1952
I quess, since they are separate orders, that the answer is YES.

This is probably, one reason, why the brokers did not oppose the rule.

They will make more $$$$, their reason to take our money!

Getting madder,

Madmax
  • #90
  • Edited 5:00pm Jul 3, 2009 3:47pm | Edited 5:00pm
LOL, yes, and no more cries about stop hunting LOL, the more things change, the more they stay the same. And trailing stop can also be used by EA...on the bright side, there are more options if brokers add the OCO orders, then you could link any number of orders, even on different pairs. And for scalpers who trade large amounts for small pips, they won't be limited by how close to the opened or current price they could place an OCO order to close at stop or limit. Imagination is the key word but the NFA is not done yet, more to come.

Quoting SmokyByers
So you're a MT4 trader? If I remember correctly (I don't code EA's so forgive me if incorrect) isn't there a CloseTrade function for EA's. Could you not 'code in' your stop losses similar to what I mention above? That is, instead of sending a stop loss with your order, have a pre-determined price point within your EA where an opposing trade is entered to close out.
  • #91
  • Jul 3, 2009 5:06pm Jul 3, 2009 5:06pm
I'm just moving all of my accounts to the UK and Australia where trading freedom still rings! Next the NFA will mandate 1:1 leverage. Cool, so now it will take $100,000 to make 5 bucks, in other words they want to shut down the little guy. I thought this country was about dreams and how the little guy can rise up and be successful, and this country was about setting up an environment where that was possible. Not anymore. Everything is geared towards the wealthy now. This has happened before. I was finally learning how to daytrade stocks and was starting to build my account - then they changed the rules so I had to wait 3 days in between trades. The new rule killed my stock trading. Oh, but if you had alot of money you didn't have to wait and could daytrade as normal. All that rule did was shut down the little guy trying to build and get ahead. Same thing here with the NFA. An ordinary guy can't get ahead anymore. Big Brother NFA can go ahead and shut down trading in the US for all I care. They can shut themselves down while they're at it. I'm going overseas and getting away from all of this nonsense. Bye bye NFA!
  • #92
  • Jul 3, 2009 5:14pm Jul 3, 2009 5:14pm
Quoting Ghostman
Interesting article referenced above. GFT "averages" prices??? Let me see if I understand this-

Suppose I go LONG one contract of the "xyz" currency pair at price....oh....I'll say a price of 1.5000. And, then, days later, I decide to go LONG a second contract of this same currency pair at market price of....1.5500. (a 500 pip increase from my first contract)

Does this mean that GFT will list me as having two contracts at....1.5250??? (the average of the two contracts) Is this what GFT does?
Yes, and fyi this is how most major traded markets work. Non-fifo, hedging, etc. was purely a retail spot FX thing, off the top of my head I can't think of one other market that operated in such a way.

These threads make me cringe, too many traders either don't or don't try to understand exactly what the changes are and what they affect.

Increased regulation and bringing the market more in line with other markets (FIFO accounting, reduced leverage, improving erroneous quotes/trades, etc.) is a boon to retail spot FX and I think more traders would be pleased with these things if they took the time to actually understand them before they start talking about how the NFA is trying to eliminate retail FX and all that other rubbish.

Seriously, before you complain, you should take a look at how other markets trade, and maybe you too will realize that the spot fx market was screaming for more regulation and has been for quite a while. Or you can continue putting your hands over your ears and shouting obscenities because you can't gamble your account away with 500:1 leverage
  • #93
  • Jul 3, 2009 5:28pm Jul 3, 2009 5:28pm
Funny how alot of members fear that their Get Rich Quick Bubble just popped.
Just shows that there is alot of rookie mentality in the FF Community.

Like 1:50 isn't enough leverage for sound risk and money managment. lol
  • #94
  • Edited 6:02pm Jul 3, 2009 5:32pm | Edited 6:02pm
yeah, FINRA wants 1.5:1 leverage,,,,is NFA next...then it will be really time to change to UK or other outside US broker

Quoting Pipvalhalla
I'm just moving all of my accounts to the UK and Australia where trading freedom still rings! Next the NFA will mandate 1:1 leverage. Cool, so now it will take $100,000 to make 5 bucks, in other words they want to shut down the little guy. I thought this country was about dreams and how the little guy can rise up and be successful, and this country was about setting up an environment where that was possible. Not anymore. Everything is geared towards the wealthy now. This has happened before. I was finally learning how to daytrade stocks and was...
  • #95
  • Edited 6:39pm Jul 3, 2009 5:34pm | Edited 6:39pm
You fail to understand that what brought many traders to fX was the high leverage, on 1.5:1 leverage you would have to have 50k equity account in order to make some good money. 1.5:1 leverage is a boom? LOL...Increased regulations means crap...Did the SEC do anything about Madoff eventhough Markopolo gave them the evindence in a silver platter??? Pleaassssssssssssssse. FINRA wants 1.5:1 and no segregation of funds...so put 50k and the broker goes out of business and you lose 50K.. UK requires segregated funds, which is protection, and does not have the hedging, fifo and low leverage b/s. Increased regulation favors the Madoffs who have money to buy their way around it and make the regulators look the other way. You should search youtube.com for "Markopolo SEC Madoff hearings". The SEC claimed executive privilege not to answer when questioned by congress. Now these are the regulators that we should trust to make rules to protect us. LOL

Inserted Video


Inserted Video


Inserted Video



Quoting smittens4212
Yes, and fyi this is how most major traded markets work. Non-fifo, hedging, etc. was purely a retail spot FX thing, off the top of my head I can't think of one other market that operated in such a way.

These threads make me cringe, too many traders either don't or don't try to understand exactly what the changes are and what they affect.

Increased regulation and bringing the market more in line with other markets (FIFO accounting, reduced leverage, improving erroneous quotes/trades, etc.) is a boon to retail spot FX and I think more traders...
  • #96
  • Edited 6:02pm Jul 3, 2009 5:37pm | Edited 6:02pm
50:1 is fine, but FINRA wants 1.5:1 now that is a joke, that is less leverage than stocks and way less than futures, which have been regulated for a long time. Now why do they want that???

Quoting Tjpld
Funny how alot of members fear that their Get Rich Quick Bubble just popped.
Just shows that there is alot of rookie mentality in the FF Community.

Like 1:50 isn't enough leverage for sound risk and money managment. lol
  • #97
  • Jul 3, 2009 6:09pm Jul 3, 2009 6:09pm
Too much Of Exageration!

Simple rule, FIFO!

First in, First out!! what's so bad about that??

if you have one trade of one pair at a time, you can still exit/Take profit at any time you would like.. what's different is if you added to this position.. you are forced to close the new position first.. what's so bad with that?
people started to talk about not being able to close a position, even if they have one position overall.. that's non-sense!

Lowering Leverage to 1:50 and 1:25 even, what's so bad about that?
Fay All Time Return: -98.7%
  • #98
  • Jul 3, 2009 6:28pm Jul 3, 2009 6:28pm
Quoting fayz0r
Too much Of Exageration!

Simple rule, FIFO!

First in, First out!! what's so bad about that??

if you have one trade of one pair at a time, you can still exit/Take profit at any time you would like.. what's different is if you added to this position.. you are forced to close the new position first.. what's so bad with that?
people started to talk about not being able to close a position, even if they have one position overall.. that's non-sense!

Lowering Leverage to 1:50 and 1:25 even, what's so bad about that?
not 1:50 or 1.25 but 1.5:1
http://www.askdamagex.com/f19/finra-...everage-34789/
  • #99
  • Jul 3, 2009 6:36pm Jul 3, 2009 6:36pm
Quoting * Snow *
I received the following email from my broker. Does anyone have more information about this, or can direct me to a thread that's already dicussing this topic?
Thanks.


[font=Arial]A major new National Futures Association (NFA) rule goes into effect on August 1, 2009. This rule affects all U.S. regulated Forex Dealer Members. Forex traders will no longer have the ability to place stop-loss or limit orders. Nor will traders be able to modify or close trades from the “Open Positions” window. As these features will be removed, all stop-loss...
IF YOUR in the us try fxdd, they haven't be affected by any of the new regulations, you can still hedge trade with them.
{Promotion Removed}
  • #100
  • Jul 3, 2009 7:36pm Jul 3, 2009 7:36pm
I am using FXCM and have been for about 5 years. No problems in all that time. I plan to move my account to FXCM UK while monitoring what other US brokers come up with. For me this issue is having a fast and reliable way to enter stops across multiple trades. I think OCO is going to slow me down a bit, so its off the the UK for me. By the way, if everyone on FF would send an email to their US Senator and US Representative, and an email to the NFA and FTC, you might get someones attention.
0 traders viewing now