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NFA - "No more Limit or Stop Loss orders"

  • #21
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:01am Jul 2, 2009 10:01am
Please read the entire press release to get full explanation as to why stops/limits are being removed, and that OCO orders are being implemented instead. Taken out of context, I could see how it would be alarming. http://www.dailyfx.com/story/press_r...546593628.html

Traders can stay with FXCM US by all means, but this notification is being sent out for our traders to understand why stops/limits from open positions are being removed, and what needs to be used instead.

We have provided a full discussion, FAQ, and videos well in advance of the release of FIFO to make sure our clients trading with FXCM US are well prepared. FIFO rules go into effect July 31.

Jason

Quoting smittens4212
If people properly understood FIFO they would understand why the first post in this thread (FXCM's explanation) is a gross exaggeration and completely retarded re: limit and stop orders. Pretty sure FXCM just wants their customers to move to their UK subsidiary, because they've put out some downright stupid news releases in the past two months regarding the new NFA rules.

If you don't understand FIFO, I guess the first post would probably freak you out, in which case I advise you to read up on how FIFO works and why this ruling doesn't mean you...
  • #22
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:04am Jul 2, 2009 10:04am
hi Madmax,

FIFO rules have not been implemented yet.

The FX Trade Station has always worked under FIFO principles whenever netting out positions using market orders.

Jason


Quoting Madmax1952
I have an account with both IBFX and FXCM.

I tried to enter different lot sizes in the same direction in my FXCM account and when I closed one of them it defaulted to FIFO in spite of the different lot sizes.

NOT HAPPY.

Madmax
  • #23
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:11am Jul 2, 2009 10:11am
Quoting smittens4212
If people properly understood FIFO they would understand why the first post in this thread (FXCM's explanation) is a gross exaggeration and completely retarded re: limit and stop orders. Pretty sure FXCM just wants their customers to move to their UK subsidiary, because they've put out some downright stupid news releases in the past two months regarding the new NFA rules.

If you don't understand FIFO, I guess the first post would probably freak you out, in which case I advise you to read up on how FIFO works and why this ruling doesn't mean...
but why the scare tactic, are they preparing for something?
  • #24
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:12am Jul 2, 2009 10:12am
A quick review of the forums linked by this Jason Rogers gentleman seems to show a LOT of anger out there by FXCM clients against FXCM. Looks like FXCM is, so far, doing a miserable job of convincing its own clientele that it (FXCM) has the client's best interests at heart.
  • #25
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:23am Jul 2, 2009 10:23am
Who are you with?

I have traded FXCM for 2 years and have NEVER had FIFO applied to my orders as you stated!

Until just recently. what are you smoking?

Mad Madmax
  • #26
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:24am Jul 2, 2009 10:24am
Quoting Ghostman
A quick review of the forums linked by this Jason Rogers gentleman seems to show a LOT of anger out there by FXCM clients against FXCM. Looks like FXCM is, so far, doing a miserable job of convincing its own clientele that it (FXCM) has the client's best interests at heart.
hi Ghostman,

While in my opinion there is a lot of mis-information being spread, I'm here to clarify the facts since I know there will be a lot of speculation instead of asking FXCM directly. This is especially true when statements are taken out of context.

Our goal has been to inform our traders well ahead of any rule changes passed by the NFA and we have provided a complete discussion on our website. What I would challenge everyone to do is ask me or FXCM client services directly if there is any confusion instead of speculating on things.

If you were to review where FXCM traders are posting questions and getting answers through official outlets, I would say our traders are making very educated decisions.

Jason
  • #27
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:29am Jul 2, 2009 10:29am
Today, 4 times I was closed on FIFO and they were all different lot sizes. Prior to 6/31 THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED.

Remember, they will only belive THE BIG LIE.

Please explain this LIE!

Madmax
  • #28
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:37am Jul 2, 2009 10:37am
Quoting Madmax1952
Who are you with?

I have traded FXCM for 2 years and have NEVER had FIFO applied to my orders as you stated!

Until just recently. what are you smoking?

Mad Madmax
Hi MadMax,

You have never experienced FIFO previously because you had hedging enabled. If you have hedging enabled, then positions will not net. If you disable hedging (which was done after being banned by the NFA) then market orders in opposing directions will net out positions.

If you would have requested hedging disbaled two years ago or any period for that matter, you would have seen that orders are netted on the FX Trade Station in a FIFO order. This is not a new feature that was enacted. This has always been the case.

The FX Trade Station was built with FIFO from the start because order closing (without hedging) couldn't be a random sequence. Hedging was only offered at FXCM starting around 2006.

-Jason
  • #29
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:42am Jul 2, 2009 10:42am
I am not talking about positions "in opposing directions," I am simply talking about closing open positions.

And when I do (after 6/31) I get closed using FIFO and as I stated this NEVER happened before.

You talk "double speak" and you are losing ALL credability.

Mad again
  • #30
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:50am Jul 2, 2009 10:50am
Well? Mr. Rogers leaves several links in his comment # 21. And, in his comment #26 Mr. Rogers writes:
"If you were to review where FXCM traders are posting questions and getting answers through official outlets, I would say our traders are making very educated decisions."

I don't know if I agree. Looking at the links in comment @21, it seems a bunch of FXCM customers, posting on an official FXCM forum, are pretty upset with FXCM.

I guess....it'a all a matter of interpretation? I refer to the questions/answers part of the FXCM forum as linked by Mr. Rogers.
  • #31
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:51am Jul 2, 2009 10:51am
I would like to note. I have another account with MB Trading and they still have not notified me about this. So I must say FXCM did notify me just in time to plan ahead.

Instead of pointing fingers, let’s find solutions. So far we know FCXM’s options. Either go to UK or use an “OCO”.

Does anyone here know what MB Trading solutions are?
Money Talks - Wealth Whispers . . .
  • #32
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:55am Jul 2, 2009 10:55am
Jason, conspiracy theories aside, the way you've worded your press release, as Smittens so rightly points out, scares people into moving to the UK branch. This is deliberate, so why do you want to do this?

Regulation? FSA safety net? Accounting purposes?

Curious...
  • #33
  • Jul 2, 2009 10:58am Jul 2, 2009 10:58am
I now understand why Kathy Lein and Boris Schlossberg (both of whom I respect) left FXCM for greener (better?) pastures.

I quess where the smart money goes it's good to follow. So I'll move my account to where they are.

Not so mad anymore, Madmax
  • #34
  • Jul 2, 2009 11:05am Jul 2, 2009 11:05am
Maybe a simple stupid Question. But whats about the Spread? If i close my open long position via OCO and selling the same amount, may i have to pay the Spread 2 times? (buy and sell)?

Mike
  • #35
  • Edited 1:17pm Jul 2, 2009 11:05am | Edited 1:17pm
I have a demo with IBFX - they notified in MT4 terminal that they are working on a solution.

As far as I understand, with FXCM, you can:
1) use their OCO - once SL is hit, TP order is removed and vice versa.
2) use opposing order(with same amount as parent order) for SL and TP - its up to the trader to manually remove one order if the other is hit (if BUY is the parent order, and if SL sell order is hit, then trader needs to close SELL TP order).
3) Move to FXCM Uk.
  • #36
  • Jul 2, 2009 11:06am Jul 2, 2009 11:06am
I read about this rule ---> freaked out -----> called my broker

I was told that apparently this NFA rule doesn't affect all brokerages... just brokers that use Metatrader or any other platform that trades with "segregated positions".

If your trading platform allows you to open one position, adjust without having to close the position/open a new one, you'll still be able to place stop loss/limits.
  • #37
  • Jul 2, 2009 11:09am Jul 2, 2009 11:09am
I quess, since they are separate orders, that the answer is YES.

This is probably, one reason, why the brokers did not oppose the rule.

They will make more $$$$, their reason to take our money!

Getting madder,

Madmax
  • #38
  • Jul 2, 2009 11:20am Jul 2, 2009 11:20am
FXCM stated that this apply to any USA forex broker....I assume that is same for MB too
The Market pays you to be disciplined
  • #39
  • Jul 2, 2009 11:20am Jul 2, 2009 11:20am
Quoting * Snow *
I would like to note. I have another account with MB Trading and they still have not notified me about this. So I must say FXCM did notify me just in time to plan ahead.

Instead of pointing fingers, let’s find solutions. So far we know FCXM’s options. Either go to UK or use an “OCO”.

Does anyone here know what MB Trading solutions are?
MB Trading already uses FIFO order routing on their navigator platform, so there's no issues there. I don't have an MT4 account with them, however if you check out their thread in the brokers subforum I believe they've said they are or will be prepared.
  • #40
  • Jul 2, 2009 11:26am Jul 2, 2009 11:26am
Quoting triphop
Jason, conspiracy theories aside, the way you've worded your press release, as Smittens so rightly points out, scares people into moving to the UK branch. This is deliberate, so why do you want to do this?

Regulation? FSA safety net? Accounting purposes?

Curious...
hi triphop,

I sincerely appreciate the post and I am relaying all sentiments back to our management. While the intention was not to scare people, we do want to make a VERY strong statement that Stops/Limits are being removed and the actions that need to be taken: either OCO orders or switch to FXCM UK.

Having to remove our traders stops/limits is an extremely important circumstance that our traders need to take notice of. The last thing we want to happen is for information to be disregarded and come August 1 trades be left unmanaged only result in uncontrolled losses.

Jason
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