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NEW MT5 Seriously Stuffed For Traders Platform

  • #81
  • Jun 29, 2009 12:33pm Jun 29, 2009 12:33pm
Word of caution for all you hard working system ( EA) developers, I’m hearing the new MT5 will allow brokers and MQ to gain access to your EA source code without you knowing.
  • #82
  • Jun 29, 2009 2:24pm Jun 29, 2009 2:24pm
Yet one more reason to kiss Forex goodbye forever. If it pans out true and they can see your source code, I wonder if they can access it as well. How ironic that I love the MT4 platform for its programming potential but would never trust its designers.(even before the post above this one) Who knows for sure whats behind all their programmed functions? We humans are so untrustworthy anyway, I dont believe MLQ designers are any better.
FF = Forex Faggots
  • #83
  • Jun 29, 2009 10:43pm Jun 29, 2009 10:43pm
Two words: Drama Queens.

Real ECN trading gives you one direction, and an averaged price of your order. This will be no different than trading a real market.
  • #84
  • Jun 30, 2009 12:45am Jun 30, 2009 12:45am
Quoting clockwork71
Two words: Drama Queens.

Real ECN trading gives you one direction, and an averaged price of your order. This will be no different than trading a real market.
3 words:u should know. Hope u make it. I will always think of Forex as one gigantic scam until its regulated on central exchange(unlikely though). No ones words or amount of posts will ever change my mind until some regulatory body oversees these "free to f__k everbody at will" Forex Brokers. And ,are u commenting on MY sexual orientation or yours? (BTW I like your website/Blog-just not your undying support of ECN Brokers) I dont believe any Forex Broker is worth the effort.
FF = Forex Faggots
  • #85
  • Jun 30, 2009 1:25am Jun 30, 2009 1:25am
Quoting Tom_C
Word of caution for all you hard working system ( EA) developers, I’m hearing the new MT5 will allow brokers and MQ to gain access to your EA source code without you knowing.
But LOL!

This is bull.shit!

Kind of newby's food this board is hungry for...
  • #86
  • Jun 30, 2009 1:42am Jun 30, 2009 1:42am
Quoting jagui
But LOL!
This is bull.shit!
How do you know? or Are you only hopeing?




When it comes through to it, metaquotes have:

  1. Developed the MQL5 language
  2. Developed the metaeditor
  3. Developed the MT5 platform
  4. Would be aware of reverse engineering and programmin requirements
  5. Would know that a trading system can not be copyrighted unless it uses entirely unique method with entirely unique indicators.

We traders are simply licensees of the platform, editor and language. Therefore what is our legal grounding for owning the indicator if they own the language, the platform and language editor that we are licenced to use.

Why do you think they are using a derivative of C++ instead of C++ itself? Maybe so that can have certain programming rights, we as traders should not nieve to the ways of the MT5 broker / platform developer world.

Rather than rant and rave about it all, I would ask Metaquotes to make a formal legal statement, saying that the above rumour is simply NOT true. Other than that the rumour and your statement are not true unless proven / formally stated by metaquotes to be otherwise.

  • #87
  • Jun 30, 2009 1:52am Jun 30, 2009 1:52am
Not sure where the whole thing comes from, but looks like the guy is like a paid anti-PR guy ))

Here's what i think will happen:

1. MT5 will have all new NFA bullshit in it, they have to do it for all their US clients(brokers)
2. MT5 will be the same as MT4 for all the rest of brokers.

However, as such i believe that it will be much better and stable piece of code(software) other wise there is no point to change mt4 to mt5.

P.S. aquaart - writing in coloured fonts, really looks LIKE SPAMMING. No Offence.


You have few facts, you said those. Now we know what are you saying, what is the point to insist on those?
  • #88
  • Edited 2:37am Jun 30, 2009 2:14am | Edited 2:37am
Quoting squaw
1. MT5 will have all new NFA bullshit in it, they have to do it for all their US clients(brokers)
Yes that is very true...

Quoting squaw
2. MT5 will be the same as MT4 for all the rest of brokers.
I would like that to be the case... It would change my entire view of the MT5 platform...

Quoting squaw
However, as such i believe that it will be much better and stable piece of code(software) other wise there is no point to change mt4 to mt5.
Agreed... if the MT5 broker can change the ordering system outside of the USA...
Quoting squaw
P.S. aquaart - writing in coloured fonts, really looks LIKE SPAMMING. No Offence.
Stopped it, as some people found it offensive. That was not my aim...
It was as you said last... To highlight a few small changes, that I believe can have a significant effect on profitable trading. This includes my trading which is why I made such a noise about it.

The other good points of MT5 would actually make me want to use it. But the fact that it forces change to my trading method and obviously other peoples, stops me. I would like them to look after all MT5 traders and not just the MT5 brokers.

And if I was a paid anti-PR I would not be "advertising" the MT4 brokers in the first post's list. Because that stills benefits metaquotes.
  • #89
  • Edited 7:13am Jun 30, 2009 6:50am | Edited 7:13am
Quoting euclid
There is no problem having multiple EAs with different strategies or having EA and manual at the same time. It really doesn't change anything. In fact it's slightly more flexible.
WRONG!!!

Looking at the picture below...

With MT4
If your first EA entered the long term BUY trade at the bottom, and had its t/p exit point at the top it would enter it.

With MT4 brokers if your second EA saw a new SELL entry and entered two lots for the SELL. In MT4 the broker would be able to allow the two trades to play out as they have their own seperate positions. Hit t/p on both or loss on both.



In order to mimic the above trading

With MT5
If your first EA entered the long term BUY trade at the bottom, and had its t/p exit point at the top it would enter it.

With MT5 brokers if your second EA saw a trade at the SELL entry point, to achieve the same result it would first have to recognise that it closes your BUY entry (of the other EA). (If it didn't do this you would lend up with a 1 lot SELL trade only.)

Then enter your 2 lot SELL trade order.

Then after SELL trade t/p, re-enter your 1 lot original trade first performed by the other EA at the SELL entry point.





What happens if your SELL trade does not hit the t/p?

  1. Well then you either miss the rest of your long term trade OR
  2. Re-enter manually into your long term trade OR
  3. Your second EA has to be smart enough to re-enter at the SELL's trade stop loss point OR
  4. Your first EA has to be smart enough to re-enter at the SELL's trade stop loss point.

As EAs are highly mechanical I doubt whether the third and fourth points are ever going to be achieved by a single MQL5 programmer (given the length of time before they release MQL6 making MQL5 obsolete if history and present are indicators of the future).

If it does get achieved congrats, however, what this does mean is that no EA will be able to work independently of each other or of the owner.

However, this scenario becomes even more complex / unachievable if the original BUY trade has a t/p before the SELL trades S/L point. Try and put that as a re-entry into the EA, or even your manual trading....

All of this would be the same if you were manually trading along side an EA. (if your EA uses a system different to your manual system on the one instrument)

This complexity is all because MT5 developers appear to be making MT5 as a single position per instrument trading world wide. Why not change it for the rest of the world?

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Two Trade Only Scenario.jpg Size: 66 KB
  • #90
  • Jun 30, 2009 7:25am Jun 30, 2009 7:25am
Quoting fibo237
Sorry, I'm not associated with MT5 development crew.
Upon looking at your post in another forum, I read your "quote" as if they were your words, not realising it was quote.
So I take my question back.
cheers
  • #91
  • Edited 1:52pm Jun 30, 2009 11:36am | Edited 1:52pm
Quoting euclid
Everything works exactly the same except there is no hedge and therefore no additional margin and swap costs that hedging introduces. There is no problem having multiple EAs with different strategies or having EA and manual at the same time. It really doesn't change anything. In fact it's slightly more flexible.
So I take it you feel better losing money with stop losses [tossing your $ at the countertrading broker] rather than trading without losses using hedging? Exactly how wealthly have you become with you FIFO? Sounds to me like you're a broker yourself, so FIFO will make you $. Meanwhile Joe trader gets kicked out of his house and moves to skid row as his account bleeds away.
  • #92
  • Jun 30, 2009 3:13pm Jun 30, 2009 3:13pm
Quoting 8fingers
3 words:u should know. Hope u make it. I will always think of Forex as one gigantic scam until its regulated on central exchange(unlikely though). No ones words or amount of posts will ever change my mind until some regulatory body oversees these "free to f__k everbody at will" Forex Brokers. And ,are u commenting on MY sexual orientation or yours? (BTW I like your website/Blog-just not your undying support of ECN Brokers) I dont believe any Forex Broker is worth the effort.

Damn right I should know. I know a lot of things.

I don't know why you feel the need to defend your sexual orientation. I didn't bring it up. Odd that you feel that way.

I don't have an undying belief in ECN's. It's the only way you can trade 90% of markets anyways. Try trading the futures, stock or band markets any other way. (Bullshit CFD's don't count either.)

All real markets are ECN's. There is no way around it. You HAVE to have a buyer AND seller.

I didn't make the markets, I just make them work for me.

The truth is this: When I started playing guitar, I always thought that buying a handmade Jackson would make me a kick-ass player. I thought a better amp would make me sound even better.

I bought a Mesa Boogie amp (handmade) and a Jackson King V (also handmade) and I wasn't any better. The same can be said for platforms, markets, etc.

It's the musician that makes the music, not the instrument. Same with trading. I could make money at GFT (dealing desk) or IB. I learned how to do it.

Thanks on the compliment. As you can tell by the professional quality of my blog.....I put a lot of work into it. LOL

CW
  • #93
  • Jun 30, 2009 6:09pm Jun 30, 2009 6:09pm
Quoting Tom_C
Word of caution for all you hard working system ( EA) developers, I’m hearing the new MT5 will allow brokers and MQ to gain access to your EA source code without you knowing.
Well, I think you're naive to worry about that because I hear MT5 will steal money from your forex accts.
  • #94
  • Jun 30, 2009 8:46pm Jun 30, 2009 8:46pm
Quoting clockwork71
Damn right I should know. I know a lot of things.

I don't know why you feel the need to defend your sexual orientation. I didn't bring it up. Odd that you feel that way.

I don't have an undying belief in ECN's. It's the only way you can trade 90% of markets anyways. Try trading the futures, stock or band markets any other way. (Bullshit CFD's don't count either.)

All real markets are ECN's. There is no way around it. You HAVE to have a buyer AND seller.

I didn't make the markets, I just make them work for me.

The truth...
Nice to hear from u ClockWork71- I didnt mean to diss you but thought u may be calling me a hemosexual-lol. I now realize I was wrong and I apologize. I am not as calm and collected as you( I have listened to a couple of your audio clips-very nice.) And they wont let me in that club either-lol. I dont want anyone starting an "I hate 8fingers" thread. I hope u break your Broker bro!
FF = Forex Faggots
  • #95
  • Jul 1, 2009 9:48am Jul 1, 2009 9:48am
hi aquaart,

can't pm u. which broker do u trade with? thanks
  • #96
  • Jul 1, 2009 2:04pm Jul 1, 2009 2:04pm
Quoting aquaart
Yes that is very true...



I would like that to be the case... It would change my entire view of the MT5 platform...


Agreed... if the MT5 broker can change the ordering system outside of the USA...

Stopped it, as some people found it offensive. That was not my aim...
It was as you said last... To highlight a few small changes, that I believe can have a significant effect on profitable trading. This includes my trading which is why I made such a noise about it.

The other good points of MT5 would actually make me want to use...

Good that we had understanding here.

It is VERY important to understand that not software developers are killing and smashing their brains on the wall to implement those crappy and absolutely out of the point systems in place, BUT strange bunch of bureaucrats from NFA and CFTC are trying to protect their own chairs when imposing those rules underlined not only to MT brokers but to all of em.

Bear in mind that you will find same FIFO etc logistics not only in MT5 or whatever it will be called but also in ALL other CFTC registered brokerage houses...

Finito la comedia... Consider US forex brokerage industry dead. Unless the same rules will be introduced in europe(hope not. really hope).
  • #97
  • Jul 1, 2009 2:07pm Jul 1, 2009 2:07pm
BTW interesting fact.. Just chatted with FXCM US as if i wanted to open account with them(note: never ) and they've strongly recommended me to open one in FXCM UK as new NFA rules obviously will not be introduced in the UK or other EU countries.

Just for support of my previous post.

Go Europe!!!...

Not that way...

another way around..

oh common...
  • #98
  • Jul 1, 2009 2:33pm Jul 1, 2009 2:33pm
Not So fast! As unseal FXCM reps are scuing the facts in their favor. UK an Swiss Land are already gearing up to follow what the US in trading laws. Swiss banks already started rejecting and closing US clients accounts.http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...d=a_8VwpO5m0WQ
  • #99
  • Jul 1, 2009 10:51pm Jul 1, 2009 10:51pm
Quoting Tom_C
Not So fast! As unseal FXCM reps are scuing the facts in their favor. UK an Swiss Land are already gearing up to follow what the US in trading laws. Swiss banks already started rejecting and closing US clients accounts.http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...d=a_8VwpO5m0WQ

That's not a FOREX issue. That's international bankers unwilling to bend over backwards to play police on US tax policy which is 180 degrees out of sync with the world. This NFA ruling only proves the rule that the US mindset is retrograde and has more in common with third world nations. As US loses reserve currency status the economy will fall into line as USA already is 41st in standard of living. No wonder many Americans choose to live overseas.

Should USA banks do taxes for Zimbabwe expats? USA law is pure arrogance.
  • #100
  • Jul 2, 2009 2:34am Jul 2, 2009 2:34am
Quoting winningfx
hi aquaart,

can't pm u. which broker do u trade with? thanks
I presently trade with www.gomarketsaus.com , because I was fooled by their 'ECN Style', which is not a true ECN at all.

Hence I am presently looking at nordmarkets, as they are a true ECN, without the silly NFA rules.
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