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Do you still believe in the perfect trading system?

  • #61
  • Jun 16, 2009 4:16am Jun 16, 2009 4:16am
Quoting memento
I've been reading your argument about how impossible it is for price to go sideways. Before I reach this particular post of yours, I've suspected that you are a scalper. This post only increases my suspicion, since you mention about m15 and even m1 tf.

Of course, to scalpers (I am referring to this group of traders in general, nth against you) who are satisfied with 10 - 20 pips profit per trade, price only moves up or down. But for the other group of traders, who look at bigger tf (At least 1hr), a bullish 10 pip candle, followed by a 20 pips...
There is some thing that you don't understand about scalpers, we (yes i'm something like that) it's not a fact of be satisfied with 10-20 pips, and it's not right say that thos who aim for big moves have something more, some people prefer to make 20-30 trades daily instead of make only one, i really don't get your point, as i see scalping is something where only professionals (or people with real understanding of the market) survive, it's not something for everybody, just try yourself.
  • #62
  • Jun 16, 2009 4:28am Jun 16, 2009 4:28am
anyone read the book "the alchemist" by paulo coelho , in that book ,

there was the guy who researched about the holy grail , studies years and years from ancient books , deciphering codes to read ancient texts ,
on the other hand there was the hero of the story , he tried reading what the alchemist wannabe reads , he cldnt understand it n had to give it up after 2-3 days ,
the hero had another way to decipher things , he uses his heart n read the language of the world with it , he could speak with the wind , the earth , the stone , and uses all these to find his treasure
these things the hero talking about, the alchemist wannabe could not understand either ...
they both were looking for the same thing , yet had different ways in finding it ...

sorry if it was unrelated , just thought of holy grail and got reminded about the book ...
To Live is the rarest thing in the world , Most people exist , that is all
  • #63
  • Jun 16, 2009 4:38am Jun 16, 2009 4:38am
Quoting maheswara
anyone read the book "the alchemist" by paulo coelho , in that book ,

there was the guy who researched about the holy grail , studies years and years from ancient books , deciphering codes to read ancient texts ,
on the other hand there was the hero of the story , he tried reading what the alchemist wannabe reads , he cldnt understand it n had to give it up after 2-3 days ,
the hero had another way to decipher things , he uses his heart n read the language of the world with it , he could speak with the wind , the earth , the stone , and uses...
One of my favourite books - read some of his other stuff as well (The Devil and Miss Prym, the Valkyries).

Good for anyone who is on a quest to find that special something everyone is looking for....

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #64
  • Jun 16, 2009 4:41am Jun 16, 2009 4:41am
Quoting markmm
You state that the road to success is admitting there is no holy grail, then you state you think that method is? You need to clarify you're thoughts and beliefs, avoid fuzzy thinking.

There is no holy grail. Except maybe if you have knowledge if big orders about to go in.
I know there is no holy grail. That's why I told that method is theoritical holy grail. If you read that post, you will know that you will never lose any trade with that method (if you have infinite money). That's all.
  • #65
  • Jun 16, 2009 4:58am Jun 16, 2009 4:58am
Quoting epilogue
I know there is no holy grail. That's why I told that method is theoritical holy grail. If you read that post, you will know that you will never lose any trade with that method (if you have infinite money). That's all.
...and in turn will always lose using this method in the long run because you do not have infinite money. If you already had infinite money then why would you trade anyway?

OP, I think it is you has misunderstood the definition of 'The Holy Grail'. In truth the term is thrown around by marketing bastards pimping out crappy EA's and the like, describing the mythical and miraculous (like the religious HG) powers the indicator settings that the robots have in capturing 99% winners. Also like the religious HG, it is complete and utter tripe. What you have described is profitable trading, and there is nothing mythical or miraculous about that, or the journey that gets you there.
  • #66
  • Jun 16, 2009 5:13am Jun 16, 2009 5:13am
Quoting birdt
...and in turn will always lose using this method in the long run because you do not have infinite money....
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #67
  • Jun 16, 2009 5:24am Jun 16, 2009 5:24am
...there is a time for everything. There is a time for being in the market and for staying out.

possibly the closest thing to 'the grail' is to know the time for both.

regards
daytrading

P.S. if you ask 10 different successful traders, you will most likely get 10 different answers telling you the same thing
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  • #68
  • Jun 16, 2009 5:34am Jun 16, 2009 5:34am
Quoting birdt
...and in turn will always lose using this method in the long run because you do not have infinite money....
I think you misunderstood me. I KNOW THERE IS NO HOLY GRAIL. But according to people in this thread, you treat 'PROFITABLE TRADE' as Holy Grail. Then, I tell you that there are lots of profitable method of trading. I am myself a profitable trader, trading for more than 15 years now.

I was just showing an example of a theoritical holy grail (the method that never loses). But mark my word "theoritical", not practically possible. I myself don't trade that way. If it worked in the long run, I would borrow loans from bank to trade.

Guys, its just an example. Dont take it more than that. I am neither serious about that method, nor plan to trade that way ever.
  • #69
  • Jun 16, 2009 5:42am Jun 16, 2009 5:42am
Quoting epilogue
I think you misunderstood me. I KNOW THERE IS NO HOLY GRAIL. But according to people in this thread, you treat 'PROFITABLE TRADE' as Holy Grail. Then, I tell you that there are lots of profitable method of trading. I am myself a profitable trader, trading for more than 15 years now.

I was just showing an example of a theoritical holy grail (the method that never loses). But mark my word "theoritical", not practically possible. I myself don't trade that way. If it worked in the long run, I would borrow loans from bank to trade.

Guys, its...
Your words were

"Both theory and implementation are excellent. I have to admit, this is a HOLY GRAIL. I know everyone would be millionaire with this technique. But I just can't. I simply don't have initial capital required for it (for the worst case)."

I think your backtracking now, uncomfortable to read.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #70
  • Jun 16, 2009 5:54am Jun 16, 2009 5:54am
Quoting markmm
Your words were

"Both theory and implementation are excellent. I have to admit, this is a HOLY GRAIL. I know everyone would be millionaire with this technique. But I just can't. I simply don't have initial capital required for it (for the worst case)."

I think your backtracking now, uncomfortable to read.
Ok. You caught me. Great!
  • #71
  • Jun 16, 2009 5:55am Jun 16, 2009 5:55am
Quoting epilogue
Ok. You caught me. Great!
Your welcome, think before posting is my advice. You could cost people money.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #72
  • Jun 16, 2009 6:13am Jun 16, 2009 6:13am
Quoting markmm
Your welcome, think before posting is my advice. You could cost people money.
I was wondering why you are firing your words at me for nothing. Then I saw your profile and visited your thread 'Trading Cliches'. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=175919.

Now I am pretty sure, it is worthless to argue with you.
  • #73
  • Jun 16, 2009 6:16am Jun 16, 2009 6:16am
Quoting epilogue
I was wondering why you are firing your words at me for nothing. Then I saw your profile and visited your thread 'Trading Cliches'. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=175919.

Now I am pretty sure, it is worthless to argue with you.
I am just saying you are spouting stuff about a holy grail, newbies could read this and lose money. So the words are advice for you not for nothing.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #74
  • Edited 8:55am Jun 16, 2009 8:39am | Edited 8:55am
Quoting tunera
Yes, because it doesn't exist a 100% win system.
Gotta put in my own two cents. (Voted 'yes'.)

No discretionary system can ever be 100%, because of the human input; this'd argue for no holy grail.
An argument for there being a holy grail, to me, would be a trader with decent control of trades and systems with a close-enough to 100% wins. This is a leap beyond calling any system and a decent trader a holy grail.
Such a system can be discovered because of all the possible scientific and other approaches one can sort thru and make own of, given the '10,000+ hours of experience' you noted.

I'm wondering if anyone would post that good of a system here. Unprogrammed except for some indicators, yes.
  • #75
  • Jun 16, 2009 8:44am Jun 16, 2009 8:44am
Quoting memento
I've been reading your argument about how impossible it is for price to go sideways. Before I reach this particular post of yours, I've suspected that you are a scalper. This post only increases my suspicion, since you mention about m15 and even m1 tf.

Of course, to scalpers (I am referring to this group of traders in general, nth against you) who are satisfied with 10 - 20 pips profit per trade, price only moves up or down. But for the other group of traders, who look at bigger tf (At least 1hr), a bullish 10 pip candle, followed by a 20 pips...
Here is a litle explanation, hope it helpsrice goes up, down or simply remain the same. When shown on a chart over a period of time, it is possible for price to create a sideway pattern. That doesnt mean that price has been going sideway over this period. Charts move up, down and sideways. To say price moves sideway is simply a mis-use of the word.
Orderliness of Randomness
  • #76
  • Jun 16, 2009 9:25am Jun 16, 2009 9:25am
Quoting Rastaman
You are making ridiculous comments about price going sideways.
It is physically impossible, price simply ranges one one time frame going back and fourth above and below a certain point.
Say, you look at a ranging market on the M15 then switch to a M1 tf you will see price is moving up and down and not SIDEWAYS as you ridiculously claim.

What are you, like 15 years old or something?
Price going sideways is a common phrase used throughout the trading world, are you 15 years old or something?

I mean you're making this big stink insulting members and telling them to stop trading because... they're saying price goes sideways, a phrase that is used all the time.

http://www.fxstreet.com/fundamental/...009-05-25.html

"Commodity Prices Trade Sideways on US and UK Holidays"

Ooops! They must be wrong, price does not go sideways, physically impossible, RAWRRRRRRR. You're a petulant little child who needs to grow up (and perhaps read more, since like I said, "price going sideways" is an extremely common phrase).
  • #77
  • Jun 16, 2009 9:35am Jun 16, 2009 9:35am
"they're saying price goes sideways, a phrase that is used all the time"

Some say Aliens abducted them all the time also!



Have you noticed that other SCALPERS are telling you the same thing?
price does not go sideways, and it appears YOU are the one making a big deal out of this, What is it, can't take the reality of it?
Grow up! And when you do and realize that you have been making ridiculous comments, then perhaps even you can learn to trade. well Maybe.
Of course once you leave kindergarten.
Starting to see instead of just looking.
  • #78
  • Jun 16, 2009 9:41am Jun 16, 2009 9:41am
Quoting smittens4212
Price going sideways is a common phrase used throughout the trading world, are you 15 years old or something?

I mean you're making this big stink insulting members and telling them to stop trading because... they're saying price goes sideways, a phrase that is used all the time.

http://www.fxstreet.com/fundamental/...009-05-25.html

"Commodity Prices Trade Sideways on US and UK Holidays"

Ooops! They must be wrong, price does not go sideways, physically impossible, RAWRRRRRRR. You're a petulant...

Price does not move sideways, it can only go up or down, when people say the market is sideways they don't actually mean that price has not changed. Go to a chart and zoom in to see. Would you ever say "My weight moved sideways today"? There might be a period where no orders are made, and price stays still, but it isn't moving at that point.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #79
  • Jun 16, 2009 9:51am Jun 16, 2009 9:51am
Quoting markmm
Price does not move sideways, it can only go up or down, when people say the market is sideways they don't actually mean that price has not changed. Go to a chart and zoom in to see. Would you ever say "My weight moved sideways today"? There might be a period where no orders are made, and price stays still, but it isn't moving at that point.
Glad to see I am not the only one with this opinion. LOL
Yes, as you say it is a phrase to describe a ranging period and doesn't mean price goes sideways at all.


It is scary to think some of these people may actually be trading with real money! How can anyone be so silly to believe price goes sideways just because they read it somewhere, then try to debate the fact on a board like this! They are newbies for sure!
Starting to see instead of just looking.
  • #80
  • Jun 16, 2009 9:53am Jun 16, 2009 9:53am
Quoting Rastaman
Glad to see I am not the only one with this opinion. LOL
Yes, as you say it is a phrase to describe a ranging period and doesn't mean price goes sideways at all.


It is scary to think some of these people may actually be trading with real money! How can anyone be so silly to believe price goes sideways just because they read it somewhere.
Thats why every trader should do a lot of studying on Market structure and economics etc before trading, you dont want to be trading without all the information.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
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