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Brokers Do Take Opposite Trades!

  • #41
  • Feb 7, 2009 10:13pm Feb 7, 2009 10:13pm
good post TC EAST
  • #42
  • Feb 8, 2009 2:12pm Feb 8, 2009 2:12pm
Quoting TC East
So, at a market maker, you simply want to keep a low profile. If you have a winning strategy, spread your money around a bit among several brokers, so you don't draw anyone's attention by making too much at any one broker. One of my rules for withdrawing money for example, is never to make a withdrawal of over $10,000 at any one time, and to rarely if ever trade lot sizes of over $1MM. Again, just some common sense ways to stay under their radar. Plus, some bucketshops are better than others; they are not all the same. A US regulated, large broker...
So using your theory, there would be no big speculators, which makes no d*** sense at all, so if your big and making money, you should run away if you subscribe to this idea.....

Wow, introduce common sense people, MM's or any other business model, people lose, trying to win, all the time. Market makers "may" hold on to the other side of the trade, or they may send it off to there liquidity provider, aka a bank its up to them.

I will say this again, conspiracy theorists are newbs, and dont get this market, have probably never seen a desk, and have no clue of how this works. They are "scalping" and claim to have plenty of weight and abilities. Anyone that subscribes to the idea that the dealers are out to get you are just that, un-educated.

Brokers close accounts if people scalp in order to try to take advantage of price differences. This is not a centrally exchange traded market, so the prices are not the same from broker to broker, and scalpers simply try to take advantage of the fact that this is not on a central exchange. Brokers dont like this because its not trading, NFA doesnt like it either, because at this point its gambling, not trading, and if any of you had a license with the NFA (series 3, yes its a futures license, but applies to forex also) You would know that the NFA has strict guidelines about trading and not gambling.

Guys with big dollars are generally carry traders, taking advantage of interest rates and HUGE moves, I ask you, why would anyone take the opposite side of that trade, if they know that they are going to lose? We are talkin about BIG money, and subscribing to your ideal, then nobody could be a carry trader in forex because nobody would want to take the opposite side of the trade.....

Again, Common sense my friend, and sorry if I am sounding like I am being rude, I am just tired of reading the BS about Market makers and them trying to get you....people post "proof" all the time, yet any time I have seen something weird, i call the desk, and they explain it to me, and it makes sense, every single time.
  • #43
  • Feb 8, 2009 6:22pm Feb 8, 2009 6:22pm
Quoting pointorpip
So using your theory, there would be no big speculators, which makes no d*** sense at all, so if your big and making money, you should run away if you subscribe to this idea.....

Wow, introduce common sense people, MM's or any other business model, people lose, trying to win, all the time. Market makers "may" hold on to the other side of the trade, or they may send it off to there liquidity provider, aka a bank its up to them.

I will say this again, conspiracy theorists are newbs, and dont get this market, have probably never seen a desk,...
Guys with big dollars are generally carry traders? SO NOT TRUE! Why do you think this, you sound like an idiot becasue it is not true especially now. Let me ask you a question if you make money, does somebody else lose? Same question for forex, stocks, futures or any other trade?
  • #44
  • Edited 9:23pm Feb 8, 2009 9:01pm | Edited 9:23pm
Quoting pointorpip
So using your theory, there would be no big speculators, which makes no d*** sense at all, so if your big and making money, you should run away if you subscribe to this idea.....

Wow, introduce common sense people, MM's or any other business model, people lose, trying to win, all the time. Market makers "may" hold on to the other side of the trade, or they may send it off to there liquidity provider, aka a bank its up to them.

I will say this again, conspiracy theorists are newbs, and dont get this market, have probably never seen a desk,...
Fine with me if you want to post your thoughts, but if you had read my post carefully, you would see that I clearly stated that being with an ECN is a way you can trade larger amounts and will most likely be just fine. I even gave an example of a large profit I made in 1 minute ($10K), and all was fine. I was only pointing out that somebody somewhere LOST that $10K that I won (and I'm just 1 trader; they probably lost 1000 times that much), and it would not be unreasonable to expect they MIGHT try to take measures to not lose big like that again.

Yes, I understand that they typically focus on scalping. I also understand that sometimes a market maker can pass on the orders to the interbank market. But to offer yet again another example, do you know many traders who were profitable at ODL Securities and had their accounts closed? I do. And guess what? They're weren't all scalpers. I also know people who had accounts at other market makers, and could not get all of their money out, just their original principle, not the profits. I have an explanation for why this happens; do you??

So, what do you suggest then? Should we refrain from being "conspiracy theorists" as you put it, and just ignore it when a broker closes our account or withholds our money? When brokers pull that kind of stuff, is it simply a figment of our imagination because we are "uneducated" and "don't get this market"? LOL, I think there may be a greater deficit of common sense here than you may be recognizing my friend.

I've been trading profitably for over 1 1/2 years now, and I now do this as my full time profession. But oh yeah that's right I almost forgot: according to you I am a newbie, and have no idea how this works.

Hmmm...do you see something wrong wth this picture?? Well, good luck...
  • #45
  • Feb 10, 2009 5:25am Feb 10, 2009 5:25am
Quoting fxtrader42
Guys with big dollars are generally carry traders? SO NOT TRUE! Why do you think this, you sound like an idiot becasue it is not true especially now. Let me ask you a question if you make money, does somebody else lose? Same question for forex, stocks, futures or any other trade?
That is true in this market, Carry traders are definitely on the sideline. Should have made that more clear.

FYI <30% of the retail spot market is retail, and yes a very large majority are corporations, hedge funds (which in most cases are carry traders) and true carry traders. Just because you dont agree with me, doesnt mean I am an idiot....
  • #46
  • Feb 10, 2009 5:34am Feb 10, 2009 5:34am
Quoting TC East
Fine with me if you want to post your thoughts, but if you had read my post carefully, you would see that I clearly stated that being with an ECN is a way you can trade larger amounts and will most likely be just fine. I even gave an example of a large profit I made in 1 minute ($10K), and all was fine. I was only pointing out that somebody somewhere LOST that $10K that I won (and I'm just 1 trader; they probably lost 1000 times that much), and it would not be unreasonable to expect they MIGHT try to take measures to not lose big like that again....
I for one don't have the time to have a pissing match with you, nor the desire. However if your (and no I am not talking about you specifically, but people as a rule) only reason for losing consistently is that the "dealer is out to get you" Hence the topic of this conversation, then you are flawed in your thinking. Your "friends" I would only believe if they show you there statements, and you have spoke with the desk on every single questionable trade. I have had trades that are questionable on MANY occassions, however rather than point the finger outwards, i look at the three pointing back at me, and attempt to find an answer to why it is that I lost (not saying that either of you don't)

Point is, before we start saying that this is a HUGE MULTI MILLION DOLLAR SCAM THAT YOU CAN NEVER MAKE MONEY AT....lol, start asking why it is that only the losers in forex seem to make there way to the forums (not all of us are losers, I know this and am not saying FXtrader42 or you tc east are) I am just saying that 90% of this forum is just that, people burned, trying to blame someone other than themselves.
  • #47
  • Feb 11, 2009 10:52pm Feb 11, 2009 10:52pm
Quoting pointorpip
I for one don't have the time to have a pissing match with you, nor the desire. However if your (and no I am not talking about you specifically, but people as a rule) only reason for losing consistently is that the "dealer is out to get you" Hence the topic of this conversation, then you are flawed in your thinking. Your "friends" I would only believe if they show you there statements, and you have spoke with the desk on every single questionable trade. I have had trades that are questionable on MANY occassions, however rather than point the...
You say you don't have the time, but you chose to take the time to comment on a post I made for someone else, so I thought it appropriate to respond to you. However, point taken; fair enough. There's probably some truth in your statements. I guess my main point (which was written for a newbie specifically asking for my opinion), was that you can't just dismiss broker selection as an insignificant thing. It's certainly not the most important determinant of your success (your trading is), but it CAN have a definite impact. So, given that, I wanted to point out some of the potential pitfalls in that area.

I almost lost $25,000 when Tradex Swiss AG went under. I closed my account just days before all of their customer accounts were frozen. That was mid 2007, and I think clients are still trying to get their money back to this day, more than 18 months later. Why did I close my account? Well, I was a newbie then, but they just didn't "smell" right to me, and I felt in my gut I couldn't trust them with my money. Might have just been a lucky guess, but it turned out to be a right decision that saved me $25K. Anyway, since my forex career was almost over before it began due to broker impropriety, I guess I'm a little more sensitive to that stuff than your average guy.

Anyway, it's all good, and I do respect your comments.

Peace...
  • #48
  • Feb 11, 2009 11:33pm Feb 11, 2009 11:33pm
Broker do take opposit Trades.
Why and How ?
When you send small orders to broker, Broker collect all small orders in there Basket and then they send single large order to Bank, Bank do not accept small orders.
When your order is internaly hold at broker place..... broker is at high risk. so to compansate that risk broker open opposit order agaist your order, if they do not do this...they will go bankrupt.

Large order they directly send to Banks, and no risk for broker and they get money from spread.

ECN broker directly send all orders to banks since orders are large in size.
  • #49
  • Feb 12, 2009 5:53am Feb 12, 2009 5:53am
Quoting ramdas
Broker do take opposit Trades.
Why and How ?
When you send small orders to broker, Broker collect all small orders in there Basket and then they send single large...
This is a pretty good explanation, small orders cant manipulate the market, so why do you care who has the other side of it, in an ECN, or any other model someone is always the other side of it, and before you say "I would prefer it wasnt my broker" think about that one, They have larger orders that they are more concerned withm and wouldnt touch the market to hit the small orders. and to answer (before you ask) what if there are "tons" of smaller orders, there aren't. Less than 30% of this market is traded by retail, and seperate that out between all the brokers globally....You get my point. (p.s. the whole aggregate filling thing is just how i explained this)
  • #50
  • Feb 16, 2009 9:57pm Feb 16, 2009 9:57pm
Quoting trader121
Of course they take the opposite side, who wouldnt? Brokers and Banks are the only ones who really make money in the forex market.

That's why they give every new trader a warm welcome.
this is why people need to watch these:

Inserted Video


Inserted Video


did that and never looked back because it's the truth! point blank! you just have a much better chance with an ECN! did a mt4 ECN bridge and got the best of both worlds. a silly little scalping gbp EA that cleans house! and another in the works!
  • #51
  • Feb 17, 2009 6:17am Feb 17, 2009 6:17am
Quoting hazelj80
[...] you just have a much better chance with an ECN! did a mt4 ECN bridge and got the best of both worlds. a silly little scalping gbp EA that cleans house! and another in the works!
And what exactly makes you think ECN brokers do not profit from your losses? why would commissions be enough when they could have the whole booty as well? Why brokers with the 'ECN' tag are automatically trusted, when it could be a scam too?

When you talk about an mt4 ECN bridge you mean you have authored some application that can grab signals from mt4 and put the trades in a non-mt4 platform?

Is a MT4 broker with a supposedly ECN connection trustworthy in your opinion?
  • #52
  • Mar 11, 2009 1:43am Mar 11, 2009 1:43am
yeah, l know they are better and it is a real ECn connection or bridge where I can scalp very quick. but there only three. i'm with one and have better trades and spreads than any market maker i was ever with. don't believe that?! check my profile for the homepage link. 56% made already this month... what the guys says makes sense. you dont eat where you sh*&!! look at teh commission he made from the trades I had. multiply that by the 200 or so accounts he manages plus whatever lil spread PER DAY and you see he eats very well! no broker will make money if bad word get out they don't like people to win! and you're right, an ECN can be a scam but it's up to the individual trader to do complete research on the broker they may want to live trade with.
  • #53
  • Jun 10, 2009 10:58pm Jun 10, 2009 10:58pm
Mmmhh... it's quite interesting subject.

How we find out the best ECN broker and based on what criterias?

Sorry got a little way off from the main post. *Peace.
Just a monkey who love to dance and laugh. {Promotion Removed}
  • #54
  • Jun 10, 2009 10:59pm Jun 10, 2009 10:59pm
Quoting Jhig
And there it is in BIG, BOLD LETTERS...

Quote
ALPARI ACTS AS A COUNTERPARTY. THE FOREIGN CURRENCY
TRADING YOU ARE ENTERING INTO IS NOT CONDUCTED ON ANY
EXCHANGE. ALPARI (US) LLC IS ACTING AS A COUNTERPARTY IN
THESE TRANSACTIONS AND, THEREFORE, ACTS AS THE BUYER WHEN
YOU SELL AND THE SELLER WHEN YOU BUY. AS A RESULT, ALPARI’S
INTERESTS MAY BE IN CONFLICT WITH YOURS. UNLESS OTHERWISE
SPECIFIED IN YOUR WRITTEN AGREEMENT OR OTHER WRITTEN
DOCUMENTS ALPARI ESTABLISHES THE PRICES AT WHICH IT OFFERS
TO TRADE WITH YOU. THE PRICES ALPARI OFFERS MIGHT NOT BE THE
BEST PRICES AVAILABLE...

Excellent due diligence on your part, fry2010. These days, not a lot of traders read the Contract before signing on the dotted lines.
Hmm i thought only MarketMaker that act as Counterparty
Is Alpari a MarketMaker?

Btw that Contract is from Alpari-US, what about Alpari-UK?
  • #55
  • Jun 11, 2009 8:13am Jun 11, 2009 8:13am
Quoting AdamN
Hmm i thought only MarketMaker that act as Counterparty
Is Alpari a MarketMaker?

Btw that Contract is from Alpari-US, what about Alpari-UK?
I think Alpari is in tier 3 as broker. As for Alpari UK CMIIW the difference only that the US under NFA regulation, while the UK under FSA regulation (http://www.fsa.gov.uk/).

Anyone can give better explanation, I'm not good at explaining.
Just a monkey who love to dance and laugh. {Promotion Removed}
  • #56
  • Jun 11, 2009 10:16am Jun 11, 2009 10:16am
  •  onu
  • | Joined Feb 2006 | Status: superior senior member | 746 Posts
Quoting AdamN
Hmm i thought only MarketMaker that act as Counterparty
Is Alpari a MarketMaker?

Btw that Contract is from Alpari-US, what about Alpari-UK?

ofcourse its a market maker, like 99% of mt4 brokers
  • #57
  • Jun 11, 2009 10:36am Jun 11, 2009 10:36am
  •  onu
  • | Joined Feb 2006 | Status: superior senior member | 746 Posts
Quoting hazelj80
yeah, l know they are better and it is a real ECn connection or bridge where I can scalp very quick. but there only three. i'm with one and have better trades and spreads than any market maker i was ever with. don't believe that?! check my profile for the homepage link. 56% made already this month... what the guys says makes sense. you dont eat where you sh*&!! look at teh commission he made from the trades I had. multiply that by the 200 or so accounts he manages plus whatever lil spread PER DAY and you see he eats very well! no broker will make...

sorry, dont see a homepage link in your profile
  • #58
  • Jun 14, 2009 3:19pm Jun 14, 2009 3:19pm
pointorpip you are so wrong.. i have little proof that indicate the brooker are playing with us..

i'm a newbie that want to believe that i can live by trading..
so i risk my limited money for only profit and not intend to lose..
i never trusted the opinion of broker trade against trader before,
until one day all my every trade that i placed in 1 night always turn minus..

i'm not stupid to take minus positions, not like my experiences on demo versions.. i feel that enough for today, so i hedge 1position, all other are closed. so i only had 1 position Buy also sell..
next i'm planning how to get my loss back.. by leaving the hedging and open new trades..

guess what, somehow the price never pass those hedging it seems the market run flat between it, with movement onli 1-4pip up and down..
HOW COME?? its not error, i waited for nearly 3 hours then until it begin to move about 7pips, and i start to place my positions, and suddenly all trades are closed with BIG minus.. WHAT THE HELL..??? im sure i dont even near margincall level

i begin to believe the broker are playin with us, so i open many mini account on every large known brokers and download all their MT4..
i try one of them, after few hours i started other, guess what..
the line graph indicator are diffrent.. and somehow its syncronising and begins to similar one another.. i'm not dreaming, you should try it your self..

now i allways keep 2 MT4 open eventhought i only use 1..
and in fact between brokers there are diffrent delay, there is MT4 that are faster up(FXDD) than another and there is faster down (IBFX), and those are sometimes have diffrent dirrection (TadawulFX) and some other not always have similar price direction (example: if FXDD goes up to 15000, and ibfx following 2 seconds later, and FastbrookerFX suddenly blink from 14990 to 14997 or maybe 15002, the worst one there are broker that did not even near those price, it stoped at 14990 waiting until other price went down otherwise it jumps up)

can you explain that..?? you can try it your self.. by begin to collect mt4 of other brokers..

i uses fxdd for faster up indicator, and ibfx faster down, and trade with fxpulp M1 .. somehow sometimes the fxdd price went up, and other went down, so that time i will take position buy, because the price will jump and have same level as fxdd..
nice profit..even few pips..

my opinion use ECN are safer, but here is another problems..
h*ttp://www.mbtrading.com/forexMiscFees.aspx
even opening account you have to pay $50..

info: fxpulp i'm under IB (spread only 1, nice for scalping but commission -$0,7/trade mini account, but the ib will rebate $0,2/trade)
i also trade on tadawul nice fixed spread, but i'm not recomended it, because somehow the regulation code/prove are not placed on its web anymore, it's been removed and not traceable..

i have also post the prove that money broker FXpro agains us at
h*ttp://www.forex-tsd.com/metatrader-brokers/10-mt4-brokers-metatrader-brokers-133.html
  • #59
  • Jun 25, 2009 5:38am Jun 25, 2009 5:38am
yes broker takes trade against you because 95% of the people fail and in this way broker wins 95% of the time trading against you
  • #60
  • Edited 6:12pm Jun 25, 2009 5:37pm | Edited 6:12pm
Yes they do, in fact MGForex also does this:

http://www.mgforex.com/eng/complianc...ex-trading.htm

Quote
MG Financial will act as counterparty in all transactions for your account. This means that you are buying and selling currencies in transactions with MG Financial as principal. MG Financial does not charge any commissions* for its trading accounts.



MG Financial determines in its sole discretion whether or not to cover its net long or net short position in specific currencies in the cash market at each particular moment in time.
They shouldn't even be calling them brokers if you ask me, they should be formally called Market makers or simply bucketshops. If you really want hassle free trading then I suggest you go to an ECN because the results can never be manipulated. The broker really acts as a broker - an intermediary or a middle man for all your transactions that finds a seller when you buy and finds a buyer when you sell. Of course, if you go there, the risks are greater (I believe there is no margin call in an ECN and you get the risk of having a negative balance) and the capital requirements are enormous..
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