Has Anyone made An EA to trades the opposite, Inverse or Converse Of another EA ?? | Forex Factory

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Has Anyone made An EA to trades the opposite, Inverse or Converse Of another EA ??

  • #1
  • First Post: Jun 10, 2009 2:11pm Jun 10, 2009 2:11pm
Hello World! Trading Community of FF.

If there is all ways a constant battle to optimise EA'z only to have their performance degrade soon after, has anyone seen one or attempted to code an EA that would trade the opposite of an EA that once performed better than 60% but is now no better than 10% say.

That EA should now be an excellent reverse Indicator, while it continues to perform below the lower 25% of profitability. So such an EA would be capable of taking the signals from another EA(that has become unprofitable), or even the buy or Sell orders on and account and Flip them around, so that longs become shorts and vice versa and that result is traded, live or on demo.

I trade but cannot Code. I have ideas that I would wish to turn to profit, so this is an invitation to those among us whose expertise is up to providing a solution.

Private as well as public discussions in this regards are most welcome.

Let the ideas contend and let's se if we can find another route to successfully trading EA's. Sure trading is fun but the balance needs to be positive in order to be sustainable.

So, I humbly ask for your help. Feel free to PM me as well, if you prefer, though more of us benefit from open discussions.

Thank you
  • #2
  • Jun 10, 2009 3:57pm Jun 10, 2009 3:57pm
That's an interesting proposal. But consider this...

Do all EAs with a low win rate work better when you take the opposite signal?
  • #3
  • Jun 10, 2009 4:19pm Jun 10, 2009 4:19pm
Quoting Ronald Raygun
That's an interesting proposal. But consider this...

Do all EAs with a low win rate work better when you take the opposite signal?
not all i dont think but I have coded something like this before and it had success for a while...dont use it anymore as i abandoned the original EA that i coded it to work off...but it worked somewhat ok for a couple months.
  • #4
  • Jun 10, 2009 4:28pm Jun 10, 2009 4:28pm
Quoting Ronald Raygun
That's an interesting proposal. But consider this...

Do all EAs with a low win rate work better when you take the opposite signal?
Hello There,
Privileged meeting up with you. Been following your frank and insightful post that contribut to the wisdom of this community.

Thanks for the input. I have no real answer Just a thought I think worth exploring. The only real test of any system, which at best can approximate market condition and cream pips from where the market ultimately heads, is the forward tests. Optimization and back testing a merely good indication. If such a system were designed or found we would lean on the wisdom of forward testing to answer this.

So mine.. to you Sir Ronald Raygun is.. do you have such a system or would you be able to contribute to finding the answer to the/you question?

"Do all EAs with a low win rate work better when you take the opposite signal?"

I think it is worth the try. An in any case the first step would be to have the EA to test this on right?

If I had the skill I would surely exercise this possibility. If the market rejects the idea, we then say thank you mighty teacher, and move on to another solution to which the market is favourable.

Thanks for the input and we hope you will continue to persist in solving this.
  • #5
  • Jun 10, 2009 4:46pm Jun 10, 2009 4:46pm
Quoting Trk
not all i dont think but I have coded something like this before and it had success for a while...dont use it anymore as i abandoned the original EA that i coded it to work off...but it worked somewhat ok for a couple months.

Might that be a suggestion on where to start? The actual code may be tricky to release (I know) even though it has been shelved for some time now, his may be the right time to revisit the idea.

But at leas the general ideas surrounding, the technique you employed, could you please share those? After all you did reap some successes. Who knows? There may be other ideas here, that can strengthen the method and thus provide the solution we need.

Thanks for the contribution Sir.
  • #6
  • Jun 10, 2009 6:27pm Jun 10, 2009 6:27pm
Quoting Ronald Raygun
That's an interesting proposal. But consider this...

Do all EAs with a low win rate work better when you take the opposite signal?

An excellent question. And one I've studied in depth. The results of my tests and observations are that sadly the reason most systems are unprofitable isn't because of the win rate. It is typically a function of average profit or loss per trade. Most systems fall in the category of not covering trading costs. Trading costs are spreads inclusive of slippage + commission and any fees. This is the main reason bucket shops have little to fear from automated systems or scalping traders.

To the thread starter: To have success fading a system, it will need a high enough average loss per trade to be able to cover trading costs when faded and still net out a profit. Forget about the win% it really isn't important.
  • #7
  • Jun 10, 2009 7:20pm Jun 10, 2009 7:20pm
Thank you for your kind considerations and responses. Let the ideas contend and hopefully the crème will assume it's natural position.

I am a *TRADEr, and I am interested only in being profitable. I am genuinely seeking to find a solution to this possibility. My search ahs lead me down an interesting path thus far. I intend to see if there is any real possibility in it. Know this, that information is now free if you are willing to share and search.

I am not certain of the rules regarding plain references here, so I'll attempt to pass the information on, indirectly. If you *COPY, just the letters here(inthis post) in caps and join them in one word, in the order thy appear, then do a search on that phrase, may be I was not the only one thinking of the possibility.

Now I have had my share of scams and learnt my lessons, so this is not in support of one way or the other. This thread was started to share ideas on a very likely possibility. A lot of people laughed the Wright Brothers to scorn. The first flight was a mere hop by today’s standards. Sure, Planes still have accidents but it is one of the safest modes of travel. What if the Wrights had, succumbed to lack of information or lack of cooperation? Where would the aviation industry be? We can never say... and that is my point exactly, we can never know, let the ideas contend and we'll see what we find.

Within the rules of this forum when you view the suggested information above, let’s see if it is still possible to develop an EA or Method to trade reverse trading signals. Once again we never know. And until we have honestly tied the idea, should we abandon it because we are scared that we may just succeed, or that the ugly duckling may one day emerge a swan.

Again, I thank you all for contributing. May we yet succeed, where we invest our energies.
  • #8
  • Jun 10, 2009 9:50pm Jun 10, 2009 9:50pm
Ok, once my main trading computer recovers (Long story short, it lost power during a storm and my backup systems took over and liquidated my accounts), I'll go ahead and code an EA to do this.
  • #9
  • Jun 10, 2009 10:25pm Jun 10, 2009 10:25pm
Quoting pathumracled
...
Sir Ronald Raygun

Sir Ronald hahaha Oh - I like it

Hi Pathumracled,
Are you looking for more than a Reverse switch added into an ea, to buy on what was a sell signal & sell on what was a buy signal.

cheers scalpz
Target 2 : Stoploss in the green
  • #10
  • Jun 10, 2009 10:48pm Jun 10, 2009 10:48pm
Mmmhhh... IMHO making is EA is quite frustrating, it ain't easy especially to meet the user satisfaction.

As one of EA user I could see there are two kind of EA, currently the one that catch trend and the one that catch profit in sideways. So far I haven't see EA that could profit in both market. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. But I'm also anxious how the people think - what is and how the profitable EA method should be.
Just a monkey who love to dance and laugh. {Promotion Removed}
  • #11
  • Jun 10, 2009 11:32pm Jun 10, 2009 11:32pm
Well sanzaru, have you considered running both a trending EA and a raging EA at the same time?
  • #12
  • Jun 11, 2009 5:58am Jun 11, 2009 5:58am
Quoting scalpz
Sir Ronald hahaha Oh - I like it

Hi Pathumracled,
Are you looking for more than a Reverse switch added into an ea, to buy on what was a sell signal & sell on what was a buy signal.

cheers scalpz
scalpz, Good day,
I do not know what a reverse switch is. I am just seeking a method that will take the signal from one EA or the Signals from one account, turn them around (Buys, into sells and sells into Buys; with the usual money management: Stops, limits etc) and trade those flipped signals.

So if an EA with a Reverse Switch can accurately and efficiently accomplish this, the yes by all means.

Thanks for your input and contributions.
  • #13
  • Jun 11, 2009 7:40am Jun 11, 2009 7:40am
Quoting Ronald Raygun
Well sanzaru, have you considered running both a trending EA and a raging EA at the same time?
Huh? Is that possible to run two EA on the same pair? Sorry for being a noob. But I do interested to find out. Will you teach me Ronald Raygun?
Just a monkey who love to dance and laugh. {Promotion Removed}
  • #14
  • Jun 11, 2009 8:39am Jun 11, 2009 8:39am
It's very easy, just open two charts.
  • #15
  • Jun 11, 2009 12:29pm Jun 11, 2009 12:29pm
Quoting Ronald Raygun
It's very easy, just open two charts.
Ah how silly of me. Never though that simple.

Thank you for the revelation. I could learn more from your trading experience. thank you.
Just a monkey who love to dance and laugh. {Promotion Removed}
  • #16
  • Edited 4:42pm Jun 11, 2009 4:41pm | Edited 4:42pm
Quoting pathumracled
scalpz, Good day,
I do not know what a reverse switch is. I am just seeking a method that will take the signal from one EA or the Signals from one account, turn them around (Buys, into sells and sells into Buys; with the usual money management: Stops, limits etc) and trade those flipped signals.

So if an EA with a Reverse Switch can accurately and efficiently accomplish this, the yes by all means.

Thanks for your input and contributions....
Hi pathumracled,
Reverse switch is some bits of code added into an ea to make it trade opposite to what the original logic works out. Trade management etc is still controlled by the original ea.

Try this on a copy of your ea;
// put this type of line early in the ea, say near the end of your external variables

extern bool ReverseSystem=false;//--------------buy instead of sell, sell instead of buy

// & put these sort of lines just after the ea has worked out if "BUY" or "SELL" is true & before the order is sent based on whether "SignalBUY" or "SignalSELL" is now true.

string SignalBUY="false";
string SignalSELL="false";

if(BUY=="true")if(ReverseSystem)SignalSELL="true";else SignalBUY="true";
if(SELL=="true")if(ReverseSystem)SignalBUY="true";else SignalSELL="true";

// Then change the if( ) function to use "SignalBUY" or "SignalSELL" instead of the origianl "BUY" or "SELL" or what ever is already there.

Wow - thats harder to explain than I thought.
Maybe load a mq4 copy of your ea or parts of it & see if I can reck it.
& then Sir Ronald might tell us where I go wrong.

cheers scalpz
Target 2 : Stoploss in the green
  • #17
  • Jun 11, 2009 5:26pm Jun 11, 2009 5:26pm
Thank you Scalpz:
for the "revese switch" explanation. I have no programing skills though except that I know when the EA icon is grey, it is locked.
The one I'm looking at is locked, so I can't view code in Editor. So the solution would possibly be to leave code and EA as normal, let it do what it is doing then invert the (trade the opposite signal) signal. That, that way it would be a revrse indicator, to use your terminology . Just need that though t to be automated. Coming from the days of pip-watching and screen-gazing, that leave me with time for little else. Not much fun, in that neither was there profits

But the assitance is welcome.
  • #18
  • Jun 11, 2009 6:00pm Jun 11, 2009 6:00pm
I tried it, the old system wasn't working cause the SL got hit all the time, so reverse set the TP to where the SL was and hey presto, well actually no cause your profits are small and your SL is likely none existant.

Sorry!!

I've written 100 EA's which all failed so logical reversing would make me a millionaire, sadly it's never that easy.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #19
  • Jun 11, 2009 6:03pm Jun 11, 2009 6:03pm
Quoting Turveyd

I've written 100 EA's which all failed so logical reversing would make me a millionaire, sadly it's never that easy.
  • #20
  • Jun 11, 2009 6:17pm Jun 11, 2009 6:17pm
Quoting Turveyd
I tried it, the old system wasn't working cause the SL got hit all the time, so reverse set the TP to where the SL was and hey presto, well actually no cause your profits are small and your SL is likely none existant.

Sorry!!

I've written 100 EA's which all failed so logical reversing would make me a millionaire, sadly it's never that easy.
Turveyd: The input is most welcome. Let the contributions and Ideas flow freely, then the creme will take it's natural position, diamonds aming the stones if you will?
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