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Prove profitability without revealing trade conditions?

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited May 29, 2009 11:45am May 28, 2009 11:15am | Edited May 29, 2009 11:45am
Im starting this thread to ask If anyone knows of a way to 100% no faking possible, prove that you have taken certain trades without revealing The trades them selves. Id prefer to keep my entries and exits private In my journal but prove without a doubt that I am taking the profitable/unprofitable trades.

Maby there is an MT4 plugin or some kind of setting that shows P/L but blocks out the Trades entry ect.

Any kind of statement or Screenshot can be altered so id prefer not to use these.

Any help welcome.

Leon
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #2
  • May 28, 2009 11:45am May 28, 2009 11:45am
BUMP
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #3
  • May 28, 2009 12:09pm May 28, 2009 12:09pm
Someone found the holy grail !
Measure twice, cut once
  • #4
  • May 28, 2009 1:24pm May 28, 2009 1:24pm
Independent performance tracking website, they'll monitor performance, risk, reward, and come up with a Sharpe ratio as well, but not the actual trades.

There are a few around although I haven't really looked at any of them, maybe try http://www.collective2.com/
  • #5
  • May 28, 2009 2:14pm May 28, 2009 2:14pm
Quoting pipmutt
Independent performance tracking website, they'll monitor performance, risk, reward, and come up with a Sharpe ratio as well, but not the actual trades.

There are a few around although I haven't really looked at any of them, maybe try http://www.collective2.com/
Thanks for posting this, Pipmutt. Using such a service seems like a good idea. In the case of this one though, doesn't it seem like they may not be completely unbiased ind independent? It looks like they are middlemen in the black box business as well as testers.
  • #6
  • May 28, 2009 2:47pm May 28, 2009 2:47pm
Quoting FXSurfer
Thanks for posting this, Pipmutt. Using such a service seems like a good idea. In the case of this one though, doesn't it seem like they may not be completely unbiased ind independent? It looks like they are middlemen in the black box business as well as testers.
Ah right, that's not good then, sorry I didn't realize that.

There must be a reliable site somewhere which tracks performance, I'm sure I've seen a few in the past but I can't find the links now.
  • #7
  • May 28, 2009 5:22pm May 28, 2009 5:22pm
I suppose I could record my balance after each trade for afew seconds and wiggle the window around. Could still be faked Im sure, but would be more difficult to do.

Originaly I was thinking about how on Mt4 you can let viewers access your demo account and see whats going on, but was wondering If there was a way to do this but not let them see the trade specifics.

hmmm.,..
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #8
  • May 28, 2009 5:24pm May 28, 2009 5:24pm
Quoting aediaz1
Someone found the holy grail !
Not the holy grail im sure, but a way of trading that Is based on a known cause and effect.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #9
  • May 28, 2009 5:33pm May 28, 2009 5:33pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Not the holy grail im sure, but a way of trading that Is based on a known cause and effect.
Also known as supply and demand in the financial market

Why are you messing around with these stuff? You're acting like gollum when he found the ring. Remember that what you have discovered have most likely been discovered before.

Still planning to go for Thailand?
Measure twice, cut once
  • #10
  • May 28, 2009 5:35pm May 28, 2009 5:35pm
Quoting pipmutt
Independent performance tracking website, they'll monitor performance, risk, reward, and come up with a Sharpe ratio as well, but not the actual trades.

There are a few around although I haven't really looked at any of them, maybe try http://www.collective2.com/
anybody know of any other independent tracking sites? i use oanda and lots of site i've see are tailored for mt4.

i would love to be able to have all those parameters tracked automatically for my trades. thanks
  • #11
  • Edited 6:06pm May 28, 2009 5:54pm | Edited 6:06pm
Quoting aediaz1
Also known as supply and demand in the financial market

Why are you messing around with these stuff? You're acting like gollum when he found the ring. Remember that what you have discovered have been discovered before and it seems that you use more energy hiding your discovery than taking it further.

Still planning to go for Thailand?
Giving away an edge Is like giving someone else your money, Ive worked hard and the only people who deserve to know what Im doing are people who have worked equally well and hard In the same area. Ill be taking my trading as far as I possibly can rest assured.

Something that people dont seem to grasp here is that Im not In this for a hobby. Im doing this because I want to make as much money as I possibly can through learning about real market moving factors, not the fun pattern-spotting that we see here.

Just to add, like I always do, I am not a profitable trader, I am not trading live yet but things are coming together. Its just a matter of recording demo trades to gain confidence In what Im doing now. My trading is very methodic, I decide on a price level that meets my conditions, and place a pending order with a set TP and SL and wait for it to be triggered, these levels are decided from what my back/forward testing has proven are the best values to catch the edge, there is no discretion involved once I have chosen an entry price.

I dont think thailand is going to happen this year, Im going to Italy in the summer and starting college In September. Hopefully next year....
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #12
  • May 28, 2009 6:29pm May 28, 2009 6:29pm
One thing that people need to get straight is that the only reason they can't trade patterns is because they don't understand it and are trapped in all the classical learnings written by stock-traders. You guys add way too much discretion and hybrid drawings. But no-one can blame you, the real essence of pattern trading isn't commonly well-known.

Leon; Good luck, you'll need a bit of that too, believe me.
Measure twice, cut once
  • #13
  • May 28, 2009 6:37pm May 28, 2009 6:37pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
prove that you have taken certain trades without revealing The trades them selves. Id prefer to keep my entries and exits private In my journal but prove without a doubt that I am taking the profitable/unprofitable trades.
Why would you need to prove anything to anyone but yourself?

P.S. I am glad that you finally found a way.
  • #14
  • May 28, 2009 6:48pm May 28, 2009 6:48pm
Quoting aediaz1
One thing that people need to get straight is that the only reason they can't trade patterns is because they don't understand it and are trapped in all the classical learnings written by stock-traders. You guys add way too much discretion and hybrid drawings. But no-one can blame you, the real essence of pattern trading isn't commonly well-known.

Leon; Good luck, you'll need a bit of that too, believe me. How far are you on the path now ?
Id say that the TA traders are the ones who are trapped, but thats just an opinion. What kind of hit-rate do you average trading patterns? This isnt the beggining of a **** measuring contest, Im just curious.

4ish years, my interest growing throughout the term. For the 1st year and over I didnt comit much time though.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #15
  • Edited 7:04pm May 28, 2009 6:50pm | Edited 7:04pm
Quoting doblece
Why would you need to prove anything to anyone but yourself?

P.S. I am glad that you finally found a way.
To show off.

Or maby to make a point....

Something else to do while stuck at the Laptop aswell. Plus the fact that success brings oportunities, you never know who might be watching.

PS. Or I could publicly crash and burn, which I have no problem with you guys see'ing. If im one thing, Im honest.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #16
  • May 28, 2009 7:02pm May 28, 2009 7:02pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
To show off.

Or maby to make a point....

Fair enough

You could maybe only post the graph?
  • #17
  • May 28, 2009 7:13pm May 28, 2009 7:13pm
Leon I've been in the trading business for a long time and ill tell you somthing. You may have found somthing that really works for you on a demo account but that really means nothing if you ask a expereinced trader because trading in a live account is a totally different BEAST. If you dont want to talk about your system then why do u want to show off your results unless if you have a hidden agenda to market it. Only way to prove your system to the world my friend is to open a thread and post live signals so others can trade your signals and see if it works without giving your strategy away. Every other way can be scammed and not trustworthy no matter what type of a holygrail of a result you post.
  • #18
  • May 28, 2009 7:24pm May 28, 2009 7:24pm
Quoting dude007
Leon I've been in the trading business for a long time and ill tell you somthing. You may have found somthing that really works for you on a demo account but that really means nothing if you ask a expereinced trader because trading in a live account is a totally different BEAST. If you dont want to talk about your system then why do u want to show off your results unless if you have a hidden agenda to market it. Only way to prove your system to the world my friend is to open a thread and post live signals so others can trade your signals and see...
Thanks for the Post dude007,

Like I said before... success brings oportunities. I think people here know that I would never be involved In marketing a system on FF. Can you explain what exactly (In your opinion) could turn a strategy profitable In demo In to a loser Live? Slippage and requotes are the only problems I can see, and I dont think that I will have any significant emotional barriers to deal with.

Leon
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #19
  • May 28, 2009 8:14pm May 28, 2009 8:14pm
If you are serious about trading as a career, a public crash & burn is the last thing you want. I know the excitement which comes with thinking that you have the case cracked, but I would keep cool until you have proven you idea with real money for a period of time (just in case).
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
  • #20
  • May 28, 2009 8:45pm May 28, 2009 8:45pm
Quoting Craig
If you are serious about trading as a career, a public crash & burn is the last thing you want. I know the excitement which comes with thinking that you have the case cracked, but I would keep cool until you have proven you idea with real money for a period of time (just in case).
You know Im serious about this craig, would be amazing If I wasnt after all this time.

Ive got a question for you actually, assuming a 1:1 RR, How many trades In a sample would would I need to collect (minimum) so that I could derive an accurate/significant Hit-rate %? I understand that Past performance is not an indication of future results and w/e, but just as a means to work out what my optimum position size would be.

Leon
Living the adventure in my head.
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