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Get millions or commit suicide!

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 25, 2005 6:55am Oct 25, 2005 6:55am
I was thinking about very strange strategy. I called it get millions or commit suicide .
I explain it with an example and is mostly intended for mini traders.
You have 1000$ and leverage 200:1. Thus you control 200 000. Spread is 2 pips on EUR/USD.You think you have clear signal to go short at EUR/USD.
You are selling 150 000. Spread 30$ and your margin is 220$. IF EUR/USD goes 14 pips against you, broker automatically liquidate your position and you lost 250 on a trade. But if it went to your direction by 20 pips and you placed stop to BE and later it went by 40 pips think how happy you will be?

If you lost now you have 750 and begin everything again

I think it worth trying but only on mini
kiss the trend
  • #2
  • Oct 25, 2005 3:12pm Oct 25, 2005 3:12pm
LOL! i love this guy!!!

i say try it man! why not? you could treat each account like a single trade, and ratchet up your account size (formerly position size) on some geometric mean based strategy (ie optimalF). dedicate a few thousand to the project you could walk away a millionaire like larry williams did.

get rich or tryin!
Relax and be happy.
  • #3
  • Oct 25, 2005 6:55pm Oct 25, 2005 6:55pm
why not just lower the leverage and wait a few extra months to make your million ? By my math it seems it would require the same win/loss ratio...

Rgds
  • #4
  • Oct 25, 2005 8:25pm Oct 25, 2005 8:25pm
Yes! this is what I'm saying higher leverage will get you more and you only risk a little? the only way you lose is if you dont have your stops placed....... arrrrrgh I'm getting fustrated with myself... so here its cool, in the event of your account only being $1000.00 This is how I planned to do my start of the real account,,,,


Mike
***Building an EMPIRE one pip at a time***
  • #5
  • Oct 25, 2005 8:29pm Oct 25, 2005 8:29pm
Going this route what would your pips be worth? thanks... please add anything else that would determine yuor pip value. as I'm still trying to grasp this concept




Mike...
***Building an EMPIRE one pip at a time***
  • #6
  • Edited 5:46am Oct 26, 2005 5:39am | Edited 5:46am
Quoting fx-trader777
I was thinking about very strange strategy. I called it get millions or commit suicide .
I explain it with an example and is mostly intended for mini traders.
You have 1000$ and leverage 200:1. Thus you control 200 000. Spread is 2 pips on EUR/USD.You think you have clear signal to go short at EUR/USD.
You are selling 150 000. Spread 30$ and your margin is 220$. IF EUR/USD goes 14 pips against you, broker automatically liquidate your position and you lost 250 on a trade. But if it went to your direction by 20 pips and you placed stop to BE and later it went by 40 pips think how happy you will be?

If you lost now you have 750 and begin everything again

I think it worth trying but only on mini
I thought about a variation of this a couple years ago as a potential strategy for undisciplined traders who could not cut their losses. Load up the max number of contracts your margin allows and let the broker stop you out on a margin call. The normal policy for a mini is to kill all trades on a margin call.

I called a broker or two (fxcm was one) and talked to them to determine if it would work on a live account because it was pretty reliable on a mini demo account. Problem was I could not get a definite answer about how reliable the liquidation point is. FXCM told me that on a mini they are supposed to liquidate all postions when you get a margin call but they said in practice you could see a lot of slippage on that and you could also see only partial liquidation and the other trades would continue to lose. I tried maxing out leverage a couple of times to test that theory and found that I did not get the precise results I was hoping for. There was slippage on both liquidations and it was different both times. Once I'd proved it was uncertain I decided it was just too costly to keep up the experiment and continue getting uncertain results.

My theory is that because there is no stop loss and no guaranteed policy for margin liquidation even on a mini you are kind of at the mm's mercy especially if the margin alarm gets triggered and a manual intervention on their part occurs They can let it run a bit if it is giving them some profits.

FT
  • #7
  • Oct 26, 2005 5:50am Oct 26, 2005 5:50am
Quoting Gyva
Yes! this is what I'm saying higher leverage will get you more and you only risk a little? the only way you lose is if you dont have your stops placed....... arrrrrgh I'm getting fustrated with myself... so here its cool, in the event of your account only being $1000.00 This is how I planned to do my start of the real account,,,,


Mike
compounding is how you make real money. Go ahead and blow it out of your system if you have to. Lose that first thousand with high leverage so you can find out exactly how it is done and then you will not be confused about the dangers of high leverage. Sometimes you gotta touch that stove to remove any doubt that it is hot. Thousand dollar lessons are common in trading. The most expensive education is the most valuable.

FT
  • #8
  • Oct 26, 2005 7:50am Oct 26, 2005 7:50am
Quoting Gyva
Going this route what would your pips be worth? thanks... please add anything else that would determine yuor pip value. as I'm still trying to grasp this concept




Mike...
YOu mean if I enter at USD/CHF a pip value is less than 1? and there are more pips left to margin call?
I think the most appropriate pair is AUD/USD or NZD/USD with their small volatility.
Also do not you think this strategy will be good during influental fundamentals? NFP, GDP or something else? there are a lot of cases when fundamental caused 50 pips one direction change. For example if you entered right away on info release you would have got 50 pips (150 000*50pips = 750$)
kiss the trend
  • #9
  • Oct 26, 2005 8:50am Oct 26, 2005 8:50am
Quoting fijitrader
compounding is how you make real money. Go ahead and blow it out of your system if you have to. Lose that first thousand with high leverage so you can find out exactly how it is done and then you will not be confused about the dangers of high leverage. Sometimes you gotta touch that stove to remove any doubt that it is hot. Thousand dollar lessons are common in trading. The most expensive education is the most valuable.

FT
Amen, Fiji!

Gyva, go ahead and do what Fiji suggests, because it will absolutely cure you of your high leverage fever. You might need to do it twice like I did.

Look Gyva, since you're going to be giving your money away to another trader anyway, why not do your high leverage blowout on a demo account. Then send the money you would have lost to me!

sxaxlxvxaxtxixoxnxbxyxgxrxaxcxexdxoxtxoxrxgx
  • #10
  • Edited 4:02pm Oct 26, 2005 3:55pm | Edited 4:02pm
I have been doing this on mini accounts, you saw the 41 trades I posted.. but then again many believe thats not enough, I continue to take the market for 2, 3, 4 pips at a time consistantly. I think since you all are trying to take 20 pips plus a trade or more you dont understand my strategy. If I also had a TP at 20pips away thats scary, the market would most likley dip before you got to that 20 pip TPs and in that dip could could be great losses. Thats not me. I watch for a consistant support and resistance and trade the ups and downs, I never leave my screen, if the price breakes through the support or resistance I stop instantly even though my stops are in place I only have them there incase the market gets so active I cant react fast enough (I have my close box open and hand on mouse) If it strays even 2 pips outta that norm I'm out period. Therfore I lose very little and will make up that lost normally within the first 2 trades the next time the support and resistance are established....... I will have to let my real acount balance do my argueing since this plan in not what your used to... Even if you dont agree with me I still wish happy trading to all...

I will be trading with oandas highest leverage 50:1 if I prove the system works I'll open another platform that offers even higher leverage.... Sorry guys please dont hate me lol.... If I am wrong I will bow down admit my ignorance and find the highest building to jump off of in wall street... Just kidding... only time will tell...

Mike...
***Building an EMPIRE one pip at a time***
  • #11
  • Oct 26, 2005 4:00pm Oct 26, 2005 4:00pm
Quoting Gyva
I have been doing this on mini accounts, you saw the 41 trades I posted.. but then again many believe thats not enough, I continue to take the market for 2, 3, 4 pips at a time consistantly. I think since you all are trying to take 20 pips plus a trade or more you dont understand my strategy. If I also had a TP at 20pips away thats scary, the market would most likley dip before you got to that 20 pip TPs and in that dip would could be great losses. Thats not me. I watch for a consistant support and resistance and trade the ups and downs, I never leave my screen, if the price breakes through the support or resistance I stop instantly even though my stops are in place I only have them there incase the market gets so active I cant react fast enough (I have my close box open and hand on mouse) If it strays even 2 pips outta that norm I'm out period. Therfore I loses very little and will make up that lost normally within the first 2 trades the next time the support and resistance are established....... I will have to let my real acount balance do my argueing since this plan in not what your used to... Even if you dont agree with me I still wish happy trading to all...

I will be trading with oandas highest leverage 50:1 if I prove the system works I'll open another platform that offers even higher leverage.... Sorry guys please dont hate me lol.... If I am wrong I will bow down admit my ignorance and find the highest building to jump off of in wall street... Just kidding... only time will tell...

Mike...
It was once thought that the sound barrier could not be broken, but I've met the man who did it. Perhaps you'll be the first to break the leverage barrier. If so, I can say I met you too! Keep us posted.
sxaxlxvxaxtxixoxnxbxyxgxrxaxcxexdxoxtxoxrxgx
  • #12
  • Edited Oct 27, 2005 1:41am Oct 26, 2005 5:21pm | Edited Oct 27, 2005 1:41am
Quoting Gyva
I will be trading with oandas highest leverage 50:1 if I prove the system works I'll open another platform that offers even higher leverage.... Sorry guys please dont hate me lol.... If I am wrong I will bow down admit my ignorance and find the highest building to jump off of in wall street... Just kidding... only time will tell...

Mike...
My friend I hope I didn't confuse you when I said go ahead and blow your account out with high leverage. What I meant was trading leverage and not the leveage setting on your account. By all means use the highest leverage setting on your account or even try different leverage settings. In the end it is your trading leverage which is all that counts. I was referring to trading leverage much like was suggested in the topic of this thread.

To determine pip value just realize that all but the JPY is calculated in 1000/ths of a dollar. 1 pip = 1/1000 of a dollar. So when you see that the EUR/USD is trading at 1.2101 that means that each EURO is worth 1.2101 or a dollar and 21.01 cents. Another way to put it is that a pip is always (except the yen) 1/100 of a cent. At least for now this is how to calculate pip value for the majors. (Once you learn all the major currencies then you'll easily be able to calculate less common currencies such as the bhat, dinar, and yuan.)

So an example:

If you have a $10000.00 position size and it moves 1 pip that means the value increases or deceases by 1/1000 of a dollar for every every dollar. Another way to put it is that it increases in value by 1/100 of a cent for each pip that it moves.

Therefore $10000.00 X $0.0001 = $1.00 the pip value of a 10,000.00 position size is $1.00.

Lets say your position size is 3000.00 X .0001 = $0.30. Play with that for a while and then try one like the USD/CAN where the base currency is in Canadian dollars. Using the same forumula the answer will be in Canadian dollars but if your trading account is in US dollars you must convert the Canadian dollar result to US dollars to get the US dollar pip value.

FT
  • #13
  • Oct 27, 2005 12:54am Oct 27, 2005 12:54am
Quoting fijitrader
Sometimes you gotta touch that stove to remove any doubt that it is hot.
sometimes? try all the time!

thats how it is for me anyway
Relax and be happy.
  • #14
  • Oct 27, 2005 12:58am Oct 27, 2005 12:58am
Quoting fijitrader
I thought about a variation of this a couple years ago as a potential strategy for undisciplined traders who could not cut their losses. Load up the max number of contracts your margin allows and let the broker stop you out on a margin call. The normal policy for a mini is to kill all trades on a margin call.

I called a broker or two (fxcm was one) and talked to them to determine if it would work on a live account because it was pretty reliable on a mini demo account. Problem was I could not get a definite answer about how reliable the liquidation point is. FXCM told me that on a mini they are supposed to liquidate all postions when you get a margin call but they said in practice you could see a lot of slippage on that and you could also see only partial liquidation and the other trades would continue to lose. I tried maxing out leverage a couple of times to test that theory and found that I did not get the precise results I was hoping for. There was slippage on both liquidations and it was different both times. Once I'd proved it was uncertain I decided it was just too costly to keep up the experiment and continue getting uncertain results.

My theory is that because there is no stop loss and no guaranteed policy for margin liquidation even on a mini you are kind of at the mm's mercy especially if the margin alarm gets triggered and a manual intervention on their part occurs They can let it run a bit if it is giving them some profits.

FT
hmm...

good point fiji. the "Get millions or commit suicide" strategy is probably inferior because the stoploss point is unpredictable. there could be some emotional advantages, but speaking strictly math, you are better off setting a real stop loss rather than letting the MM set it for you. this game is all about predictability, and you are giving up a lot of that when you let your trades get stopped on margin calls.
Relax and be happy.
  • #15
  • Oct 27, 2005 3:10am Oct 27, 2005 3:10am
I will be compounding 5% of my account on every trade with an additional $300 every 2 weeks from my pay check to boost my compounding factor. I'll keep all posted once my account is opened.



Live or die, lets do it. Be bold..



Mike
***Building an EMPIRE one pip at a time***
  • #16
  • Oct 27, 2005 3:30am Oct 27, 2005 3:30am
Quoting Gyva
I will be compounding 5% of my account on every trade with an additional $300 every 2 weeks from my pay check to boost my compounding factor. I'll keep all posted once my account is opened.

Mike
So how does that work? What do you mean? -- betting 5 percent on a given trade? Do you mean you are going to bet 5 percent of your account on one trade? If so that is really high for starting out. You'll blow out an account pretty quickly that way.

FT
  • #17
  • Oct 27, 2005 3:49am Oct 27, 2005 3:49am
no, time will reveal, at any given time I never let my strategy stray from 2 or 3 pips. And I will win the market 10 times or more in a row 2 or 3 pips before I lose 2 or 3 pips. given these factors my account grows... You have to trust me I'm telling you the truth about my wins... do or die to escape lower middle class, if I lose I still survive house intact family goes on. If I lose $300 every 2 weeks it is in no way endangering my life or family's living. If you dont risk it you'll never get it.. or grow old getting it. My time is now.... I'll keep you posted.


Mike...
***Building an EMPIRE one pip at a time***
  • #18
  • Oct 27, 2005 6:51pm Oct 27, 2005 6:51pm
I will keep a record and share my results, it might be some work to tell you about every trade as I can jump in and back out of the market 4 times in ten - fifteen minutes.... I will think of something...


Mike...
***Building an EMPIRE one pip at a time***
  • #19
  • Oct 27, 2005 11:26pm Oct 27, 2005 11:26pm
Be careful! I think fundamental release today will be interesting. IF it is not in line with expectation I will try it in DEMO. I mean GDP number.

I am interested does not any broker offer 100000:1 leverage or more?

I want to move market with as little as 10 000 initial deposit
kiss the trend
  • #20
  • Dec 27, 2008 12:39pm Dec 27, 2008 12:39pm
I was looking through some of the old threads and came across this one and it just cracks me up... soooo I just had to bump this old thread.
Same Whore .... Different Dress
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