How do you pick yourself up after getting wiped out? | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Anyone getting cashback from XTB? How much are you getting? 1 reply

Is it possible to avoid getting wiped out by a move like SNB? 42 replies

What do you ask yourself before a trade? 4 replies

Stop-Loss levels wiped out deliberately? 8 replies

How do you pick yourself up after getting wiped out?

  • #1
  • First Post: May 3, 2009 10:49pm May 3, 2009 10:49pm
Hi everyone I'm new here. I've been watching these forums for a couple of weeks, and am glad to be a part of the community.

I don't know where to begin...I am a newbie trader, who was trading for about five weeks (after practising for two months) and just last week went through the painful experience of being wiped out, (well almost...acct balance is under $25, so not enough to open even a mini lot, and the software I use doesn't allow micros).

I won't get into how much I lost, but I will say that it hurts like hell. Not the money...but the feeling of failure, of humiliation, of not being able to properly learn a new method of making money. I do know what I did wrong...it's the same as the rest of the 90% of newbie traders that fail. I didn't treat my account as a business, I constantly risked more than 2% of my account, and a lot of times just stayed in trades for far too long, not admitting that I was wrong...which ultimately cost me.

The thing is, I don't know where to go from here. I spent good money on a course learning to trade back in January and so just cutting my losses and walking away is not an option. Maybe I wasn't ready to go live when I did...but that doesn't mean I won't get to that level one day. I'm spending a lot of time on here researching new methods and strategies so I can better prepare myself for when I go live again. It's funny that all the research I'm doing now is what I should have been doing six weeks ago.

I guess I'm just having trouble making peace with my loss. I haven't launched the software in a week and I know I have to get myself back to demo trading (for at least a couple of months) or all the time I'm spending here will be for naught.

Well thanks in advance for any advice..
  • #2
  • May 3, 2009 11:10pm May 3, 2009 11:10pm
Sounds like you carried this belief into your trading. Cutting losses and walking away is sometimes your only option. Dopey mentioned in another thread today that the trick is to survive the learning curve.
Dust yourself off and learn from this experience. Treat trading like a business, this aint some great big interactive internet game.

Quote
The thing is, I don't know where to go from here. I spent good money on a course learning to trade back in January and so just cutting my losses and walking away is not an option.
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #3
  • May 3, 2009 11:21pm May 3, 2009 11:21pm
You're right it's not a game. Wish I had that mentality before I started...but I guess I'm one of those people who learns the hard way.
  • #4
  • May 4, 2009 12:11am May 4, 2009 12:11am
Quoting fxpipper
Maybe I wasn't ready to go live when I did...but that doesn't mean I won't get to that level one day.
You're more ready than ever to go live. Live trading on even a $100 account is a far more valuable use of your time than demo-trading $50k.

Why not open an acc somewhere that allows micro (nano?) contracts like Oanda and trade live with a hundred bucks or so until you're confident enough to put a large amount in again?
  • #5
  • May 4, 2009 12:19am May 4, 2009 12:19am
Quoting fxpipper
I guess I'm just having trouble making peace with my loss. I haven't launched the software in a week and I know I have to get myself back to demo trading (for at least a couple of months) or all the time I'm spending here will be for naught.
Well thanks in advance for any advice..
Trade demo until you are profitable 3 months in a row, then open a micro / nano account with a few hundred bucks and trade until profitable for 3 months in a row. You should know where you stand by that point.
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #6
  • May 4, 2009 12:29am May 4, 2009 12:29am
Mate, I tried to PM you but I can't. Not sure if its because you may have selected not to receive PM's or you need to make a minimum number of posts?

Cheers,

Benn
  • #7
  • Edited 1:31am May 4, 2009 1:03am | Edited 1:31am
I feel for you. It must be shattering to lose an entire account.

Back in 2007 I lost around $1,100 (i.e. 11% of a $10k account, trading minilots at a disciplined 1%-2% risk per trade), at which point I realized my strategy simply wasn't good enough. I've been trading in demo ever since, and I won't move back to live until I'm confident that I can win as consistently as I'd like. If I never reach that point, then so be it.

One thing I've learned: the markets are uncompromising, and will happily take all of your money, until you find a way of wining consistently....... assuming that's possible, LOL. But as long as you stay in demo, you can refine a strategy, and practise trading, without any real risk.

I know there are folk who say that you can't learn while in demo. That might be true for them, but for me, there's no difference between demo and microlots, at least psychologically. Whether I have nothing, or (for example) $10 at risk on a trade, it makes no difference as to how easily I sleep. But why donate $10 repeatedly (on each losing trade) to the market, when I don't have to?

I think that one of the biggest dangers is thinking "I'm smarter than the average guy, and there are folk claiming to make big money from forex, therefore I should succeed at this business". Those kind of expectations will kill you (and ultimately add to any humiliation you feel from failure). The markets don't respect intelligence.

Good luck, go back to demo (or stakes that don't matter to you) and keep on trying. At best, you will eventually become one of the elite who extract profit from this forbidding business. At worst, you'll learn a heck of a lot, about the markets, and about yourself.
  • #8
  • May 4, 2009 1:39am May 4, 2009 1:39am
Quoting hanover
I think that one of the biggest dangers is thinking "I'm smarter than the average guy, and there are folk claiming to make big money from forex, therefore I should succeed at this business, right from the get-go". Those kind of expectations will kill you (and ultimately add to any humiliation you feel from failure). The markets don't respect intelligence.
I really enjoyed that post in general.

In the demo vs. Live debate I think live is the closer experience because of the getting slipped / requote factor that comes into play on a live account. I would probably trade 1cent pips on oanda but Hanover makes a very valid point on the live vs. Demo debate with the constant ten dollar donations.

With regards to hanovers above quote, it's very relevant, one of the things that changed my trading was "letting go" of being right and wrong.

I used to think to myself when I started "hey im a pretty smart guy, i should be able to analyze this and outsmart all these losers" but that is asking for disaster because a win does not mean anything in forex, you never REALLY know why orderflow was generated in your direction.

Trading has high school dropouts battling phD holders, and none of them have a right to anything, the only thing that matters is if they have an edge on the market or it they don't. If you know that your methodology is strong, you don't care about a loss, or a string of losses . . Or account drawdown, because you know eventually your methodology will come right.


Anyway, main point of this post - to the original poster, if you are feeling down with regards to . . . "If you relate your forex losses to the fact that you [cannot make money]" Then you will be in a terrible place. You need to take yourself, in self worth terms, out of the equation. Do not relate "success or failure" in forex to yourself.


Godspeed to you,
Jig
  • #9
  • May 4, 2009 1:43am May 4, 2009 1:43am
Don't give up. Open another 2 demo accounts. Trade on the daily. Try different strategies. Hunt down the traders who seem to know what they'rer talking about and look back through their trades. Ask questions. Work hard. Don't over trade. rade very small lots. Record what you do. Look back and analyse failed trades (when I do that I am shocked at my stupidity!).

Stay positive or get out.
Gone to a better place
  • #10
  • May 4, 2009 3:45am May 4, 2009 3:45am
FX..you've got to find within you the will to get back on the horse...what I feel like suggesting is read and follow j16....demo or micro is up to you...

hanover...I was quite surprised when I read you were only on demo considering your posting history and you 10v status....live and learn eh?

cheers...
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #11
  • Edited 4:04am May 4, 2009 3:53am | Edited 4:04am
Quoting fxpipper
I do know what I did wrong...it's the same as the rest of the 90% of newbie traders that fail. I didn't treat my account as a business, I constantly risked more than 2% of my account, and a lot of times just stayed in trades for far too long, not admitting that I was wrong...which ultimately cost me.
I just re-read your post, and the highlighted part made a bigger impact on me.

You say that you knew what you did wrong. Surely that is half of the battle.

According to best-selling author Dr Alex Elder, trading involves (1) method, (2) MM, (3) mindset.......

Do you have a winning method? Do your entries and exits deliver a genuine edge? If the answer to these questions is 'no', or even 'I'm not sure', then the market will end up taking your money, no matter how small you size your positions (MM), or how much discipline (mindset) you bring to your task. MM and mindset merely determine how quickly you prosper or sink. Poor MM and ill-discipline will likely deplete an account more quickly than an ineffective method, and may therefore mask the latter.

There's another correlation between the three ingredients. If method is impotent, then losses will ensue, and as confidence dissipates, maintaining discipline will become increasingly difficult.

When you trade live, you're faced with both the methodological and psychological battles simultaneously. Demo (or insignificant stakes) allows you to ease in one step at a time, proving your method, and thus evolving the confidence needed to take your trading to the next level.

So I guess the question every losing trader must ask is: Is it the method that's ineffective, or the implementation (mindset)? Prove the method first, and when you've gained the necessary confidence, maintaining discipline should be that much easier.

______________________________

Quoting coscorp
hanover...I was quite surprised when I read you were only on demo considering your posting history and you 10v status....live and learn eh?
See the first part of my post here. I'm a programmer, not a professional trader.
  • #12
  • May 4, 2009 7:13am May 4, 2009 7:13am
don't waste money on courses. i took 1 back awhile ago b4 i found this site. i found that what the course taught me can all be found here. with more indepth explanations n with charts 2 boot. that's y demo trading your idea is important. u will know whether your idea works n can know the flaws b4 u decide 2 go live.
  • #13
  • May 4, 2009 12:03pm May 4, 2009 12:03pm
Right don't waste money on useless courses. Everything you need to know
is free. Best teacher is trail and error.
  • #14
  • May 4, 2009 12:23pm May 4, 2009 12:23pm
Quoting mrgreen
Sounds like you carried this belief into your trading. Cutting losses and walking away is sometimes your only option. Dust yourself off and learn from this experience. Treat trading like a business, this aint some great big interactive internet game.
I couldn't have said it any better!
Fxpipper, would you rather lose small or would you rather lose big? Eiither way it shouldn't matter because the point is, you lose. A small loss carried over can turn into a huge loss. During trading, you must established your mistakes and "fix it" ... not let it ride. The most profitable strategy will do nothing for you without a good knowledgable grasp of the basics of money management. As MrGreen said, "Cutting losses and walking away is sometimes your only option". Now, you've metioned that you made peace with your lose but you needed to make peace with it long before it wiped your account out. Peace should have been made during that live trade, not afterwards!

The next step for you is not to reflect on your lose but to plan and prepare for your come-back. You do not need to demo or live trade until you understand that trading is a business and not a video game that sits on your furture hope and dreams of being rich and living the life of a socialilte. Instead, pick up a trading book or google Trade Money Management or what ever. Don't look a chart for up to a year or how ever long it takes you to understand the words Money Management. At the same time, you don't need to be studying the latest/greats trading strategies. Instead, pick up a book and/or google Money Management. I guarantee, as soon as you get a grasp of money management and limited your loses, you will not be asking anyone on this thread for help. Instead offering your own advise to noobs who are in the same situation you were in.

Remember ... Money Management. Happy Pipp'in
  • #15
  • May 4, 2009 6:09pm May 4, 2009 6:09pm
Gotta thank everyone for their honest and helpful responses....I'm eager to post responses for everyone, and will as soon as I get onto a computer, (I'm typing this from my iphone).

In the meantime Mr. Benn I don't know why I'm not getting your PMs... I can't seem to PM you (or anyone else) either. I did activate it...oh well.

Will write again soon!
  • #16
  • May 4, 2009 10:58pm May 4, 2009 10:58pm
Quoting FXive
You're more ready than ever to go live. Live trading on even a $100 account is a far more valuable use of your time than demo-trading $50k.

Why not open an acc somewhere that allows micro (nano?) contracts like Oanda and trade live with a hundred bucks or so until you're confident enough to put a large amount in again?
That is an interesting idea. I never thought of switching brokers before...I never knew there were so many. LOL. I'll definitely give this some serious consideration.
  • #17
  • May 4, 2009 11:01pm May 4, 2009 11:01pm
Quoting LasVahGoose
Trade demo until you are profitable 3 months in a row, then open a micro / nano account with a few hundred bucks and trade until profitable for 3 months in a row. You should know where you stand by that point.
Yeah I agree this is a good idea. I read the first post in "james16 Chart Thread" and I do plan on following this method as best I can. The daily chart will take some getting used to...
  • #18
  • May 4, 2009 11:05pm May 4, 2009 11:05pm
Quoting hanover
I feel for you. It must be shattering to lose an entire account.

Back in 2007 I lost around $1,100 (i.e. 11% of a $10k account, trading minilots at a disciplined 1%-2% risk per trade), at which point I realized my strategy simply wasn't good enough. I've been trading in demo ever since, and I won't move back to live until I'm confident that I can win as consistently as I'd like. If I never reach that point, then so be it.

One thing I've learned: the markets are uncompromising, and will happily take all of your money, until you find a way of wining...
Sorry about the losses.

Yeah I definitely want to try to formulate a strategy. I've seen some on here that make sense and will try them out. You're right about having a somewhat elitist attitude after a few successful trades. I learned the hard way, unfortunately.
  • #19
  • May 4, 2009 11:10pm May 4, 2009 11:10pm
Quoting Jigsaw
Anyway, main point of this post - to the original poster, if you are feeling down with regards to . . . "If you relate your forex losses to the fact that you [cannot make money]" Then you will be in a terrible place. You need to take yourself, in self worth terms, out of the equation. Do not relate "success or failure" in forex to yourself.


Godspeed to you,
Jig
You're absolutely right! Guess I just had a tough time controlling my emotions. It's great that you can put things in perspective and think with a clearer head after some time has passed. I hope to learn some discipline and to take emotion out of the equation in the future. I'm sure it'll come with practise.
  • #20
  • May 4, 2009 11:13pm May 4, 2009 11:13pm
Quoting smikester
Don't give up. Open another 2 demo accounts. Trade on the daily. Try different strategies. Hunt down the traders who seem to know what they'rer talking about and look back through their trades. Ask questions. Work hard. Don't over trade. rade very small lots. Record what you do. Look back and analyse failed trades (when I do that I am shocked at my stupidity!).

Stay positive or get out.
Thanks for the words of wisdom. I plan to spend a lot of time bugging seasoned traders on here and in "real life".
0 traders viewing now