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VantagePoint discussion thread

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 6, 2005 3:28pm Oct 6, 2005 3:28pm
Welcome to the Vantage Point Sofware Review. A suggestion to understand these reports and minimize questions that are already answered:

1. Read the review thread first.
2. Look at the Sample System.
3. Take a look at the graphic shots.
4. Post questions or comments in this thread.

Thanks,

FT
  • #2
  • Oct 6, 2005 4:35pm Oct 6, 2005 4:35pm
Hi Fiji,

Thanks for starting a great and valuable Forum.

First let me say, the amount of work you have put into your review of the VantagePoint program is simple outstanding. I'm no English major, but your review is well written, easy to follow and to the point.

At this point I have no intentions of ording the VantagePoint system, due to cost and lack of my own trading experience. After I have a year or so of real money trading under my belt, this would be a program I will be certainly interested in purchasing.

Thanks again!
  • #3
  • Oct 6, 2005 5:05pm Oct 6, 2005 5:05pm
Quoting Anpar
Hi Fiji,

Thanks for starting a great and valuable Forum.

First let me say, the amount of work you have put into your review of the VantagePoint program is simple outstanding. I'm no English major, but your review is well written, easy to follow and to the point.

At this point I have no intentions of ording the VantagePoint system, due to cost and lack of my own trading experience. After I have a year or so of real money trading under my belt, this would be a program I will be certainly interested in purchasing.

Thanks again!
Anpar. Thank you for being the first person to give me some feedback on this review. I greatly appreciate your compliments on my work. I also understand your thoughts about cost and trading experience. While I first bought this software for the futures markets as a relatively new trader I found the software very useful but also found I could use its information more effectively once I gained more trading experience.

FT
  • #4
  • Oct 6, 2005 6:31pm Oct 6, 2005 6:31pm
Hi Fiji,

Great review. Very well balanced with pros and cons. Very valuable coming from an experienced trader point of view.

Thank you very much to FF & Fiji for putting these reviews together (Merlin - I could do with a smiley with a big thumbs up to go in here )<merlin -="" i="" could="" do="" smiley="" with="" a="" big="" thumbs="" up=""><merlin -="" we="" need="" smiley="" with="" a="" big="" thumbs="" up=""><merlin -="" i="" could="" do="" smiley="" with="" a="" big="" thumbs="" up="">

Best regards
Alan</merlin></merlin></merlin>
  • #5
  • Oct 6, 2005 6:38pm Oct 6, 2005 6:38pm
Quoting firehorse
Hi Fiji,

Great review. Very well balanced with pros and cons. Very valuable coming from an experienced trader point of view.

Thank you very much to FF & Fiji for putting these reviews together (Merlin - I could do with a smiley with a big thumbs up to go in here )<MERLIN do="" up="" thumbs="" big="" a="" with="" smiley="" could="" i="" -=""><MERLIN up="" thumbs="" big="" a="" with="" smiley="" -="" need="" we=""><MERLIN do="" up="" thumbs="" big="" a="" with="" smiley="" could="" i="" -="">

Best regards
Alan</MERLIN></MERLIN></MERLIN>
Hi Alan,

Thanks for your generous comments. Thanks also to Merlin for his encouragement and confidence to help make this happen. We truly hope it will provide useful feedback on the tools available in the marketplace. Should this review prove to make the forum a better place for traders then others will follow.

FT
  • #6
  • Oct 6, 2005 6:40pm Oct 6, 2005 6:40pm
Quote
Hello Fiji;
Nice articles u ve made so far and very enthusiastic words about VP software. I ve some inquiries: first wt is the average stop loss order pips per trade, second, does the VP suitable for intra-day trader like most of us, third, is there a rule after seeing a crossover on the MAs -like entering after the cross-over candle- fourth, don't u consider the pricing of such software rather expensive? I reviewed thier pricing strategy and seemed new to me!!

Thx alot for ur concern.

Ahmad
Hi Ahmad,

Thank you for your encouraging comments and for your questions. I'll answer them below:

1. Take a look at the trade log in the sample system thread http://www.forexfactory.com/fijirepo...y_trades_3.htm
and you'll see the number of pips each stop for each trade was set to. I beleive the average stop was around 33 and the average target was around 85.

2. The sample system was intraday. As I mentioned there I'd set the entry orders at the beginning of the trading day and close by EOD in most cases.

3. There are a number of ways you can use the crossovers. You can use predicted short term crossing over predicted long term, predicted short crossing actual long, predicted short crossing actual short, etc. As I mentioned in the article this is pretty much a sophisticated indicator around which you build your own system or use as a confirming indicator or trade filter for an existing system.

One main advantage of the predicted high and low is that once you get a crossover (say it is a long signal) you can set a limit entry near the low of the day and be in profit later in the day even if the market does not do much or the crossover reverses.

Regarding your thoughts about cost of the software. How much money have you lost in the markets? Would a good piece of software have saved you some of that money or perhaps more than paid for itself? Automobiles are expensive too. Much more expensive than trading software. Did your automobile make you money last year? Some would say yes and some would say no. Either way it all depends on how you use it.

FT
  • #7
  • Oct 6, 2005 10:39pm Oct 6, 2005 10:39pm
Quote
Fantastic review Figi, I love the way you broke everything down.
This is a review I can honestly feel is an unbiased review.
Thanks Quinn,

Quote
If I could afford it I would get it now. However I'd like to ask you something.

I signed up witha couple of signal services and also bought the braintrading package to use. I did make a net gain, but ended up not using any after awhile.
I guess the reason is this;I felt if I didn't know how I made money, how will I know when I'm going to lose money.
When I was using these services I never once got excited because I made money, because I didn't know how I made it.
Good question. Pehaps I could ask a couple questions first? What about the money you made with classic indicators or perhaps the money you made from trying the price setups Jim has been teaching. How did you make that money? Do you trust the results you get from your computer less because you don't know the algorithms it uses in the CPU?
Quote
Would the system you reviewed be something that might compliment my trading if I waited until I managed to make winning trades on my own. This is what I'm hoping for after I take Jim's PF.
Possibly. You'd probably have to get used to the idea that an indicator does something you don't know about. If you don't mind me asking a question or two to understand what your thoughts are about how you make money....? Without checking can you tell me the precise formula each of your indicators is based on? If you don't have the forumulas memorized do you really know what just happened when a signal is triggered. Consider this: If a trade loses money do you go look at the forumulas in your indicators to find out why the trade lost money? I guess what I'm attempting to find out is just how important it is to learn how the thing works in order to use it. If that is the most important thing to you in trading then don't get an indicator you don't know inside and out.

Quote
Again thank you and Merlin for making this come together, it is going to be another great addition to Forex Factory
Thanks! We couldn't do it without you.

FT
I started out with nothing, and I've got most of it left!
  • #8
  • Oct 6, 2005 10:45pm Oct 6, 2005 10:45pm
FT,

First thanks for a great review, very informative and potentially enlightning, I also feel comfortable with your writing style, to the point and you come across as someone who is very humble, I like that. Anyway you mention a couple times about a sample system thread, but I don't see it anywhere, is that just because its not created yet or am I not looking in the right place?

Thanks,

Sam
  • #9
  • Oct 6, 2005 10:51pm Oct 6, 2005 10:51pm
great stuff fij, i would give a finger or two to be able to communicate my thoughts onto " paper" like you can. jim
  • #10
  • Oct 7, 2005 1:57am Oct 7, 2005 1:57am
Hi FT,

Thank you for such a detail review, very informative. I hope you don't mind if I quote some of them. All the best for everyone

Thanks man. Good to see you are still around Dave. Please be sure to give credit to me and ForexFactory if you use quotations from the articles.

Thanks,

FT
  • #11
  • Oct 7, 2005 4:02am Oct 7, 2005 4:02am
Quoting SamDan
FT,

First thanks for a great review, very informative and potentially enlightning, I also feel comfortable with your writing style, to the point and you come across as someone who is very humble, I like that. Anyway you mention a couple times about a sample system thread, but I don't see it anywhere, is that just because its not created yet or am I not looking in the right place?

Thanks,

Sam
Is this thread not visible from the "Fiji Reports" thread? Perhaps Merlin has left it out but it is visible to me. Has anyone else had a problem viewing the "sample system" thread?

http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...ead.php?t=2698

Thanks,

FT
  • #12
  • Oct 7, 2005 7:47am Oct 7, 2005 7:47am
Hi FT,

Thanks very much for a great review of this s/w. Browsing through the Vantage Point website, I noticed that there's a claim of 80% accuracy. As you noted in the thread with the various graphs you posted, you've chosen days where the system has performed very well to illustrate your points. I wonder though whether your experience with the s/w is that the system is accurate 4 times out of 5; this just seems a "too good to be true" ratio taken at face value. And, secondly, on the days that the s/w was not able to forecast the day properly, just how far off was it and was is mostly for e.g. unexpected economic events?

Thank you!
  • #13
  • Oct 7, 2005 8:47am Oct 7, 2005 8:47am
Quoting fijitrader
Is this thread not visible from the "Fiji Reports" thread? Perhaps Merlin has left it out but it is visible to me. Has anyone else had a problem viewing the "sample system" thread?

http://www.forexfactory.com/forexfor...ead.php?t=2698

Thanks,

FT


Thanks, I'm able to view the thread when I click the link but I don't see the thread under Fiji Reports, the graphics thread is there but not the sample system, not sure if anyone else has the same problem.

Sam
  • #14
  • Oct 7, 2005 9:02am Oct 7, 2005 9:02am
Hi,
Quoting SamDan
Thanks, I'm able to view the thread when I click the link but I don't see the thread under Fiji Reports, the graphics thread is there but not the sample system, not sure if anyone else has the same problem.

Sam
Same here. I can only see the sample system if I click on the link provided by Fiji.

Regards
Alan
  • #15
  • Oct 7, 2005 9:08am Oct 7, 2005 9:08am
Quoting firehorse
Hi,Same here. I can only see the sample system if I click on the link provided by Fiji.

Regards
Alan
Thanks. I've emailed Merlin requesting that it be fixed. There is a sample system thread, a graphics thread, a "read this first" thread, and a "methodology" thread as well as the article thread and graphics thread. If someone could post (one will do it) which ones are actually visible and which are not that may help Merlin to fix the problem.

Thanks,

FT
  • #16
  • Oct 7, 2005 4:38pm Oct 7, 2005 4:38pm
Quoting fijitrader
Thanks. I've emailed Merlin requesting that it be fixed. There is a sample system thread, a graphics thread, a "read this first" thread, and a "methodology" thread as well as the article thread and graphics thread. If someone could post (one will do it) which ones are actually visible and which are not that may help Merlin to fix the problem.

Thanks,

FT
man this is really weird, never seen it happen before. i looked at the permissions and cant figure it out. fiji, try re-posting the thread and see if that works.

can someone else give us a count of how many threads you can see in this forum? there should be 6.
Relax and be happy.
  • #17
  • Oct 7, 2005 4:48pm Oct 7, 2005 4:48pm
Quoting merlin
man this is really weird, never seen it happen before. i looked at the permissions and cant figure it out. fiji, try re-posting the thread and see if that works.

can someone else give us a count of how many threads you can see in this forum? there should be 6.
Ok I tried reposting it but I don't know if people can see it or not. I know that it is now at the top where I don't want it and not at the bottom where I origiinally placed it. Can you move the thread to the bottom Merlin?

FT
  • #18
  • Oct 7, 2005 4:49pm Oct 7, 2005 4:49pm
Hi,
Quoting merlin
man this is really weird, never seen it happen before. i looked at the permissions and cant figure it out. fiji, try re-posting the thread and see if that works.

can someone else give us a count of how many threads you can see in this forum? there should be 6.
I just checked and it just popped up to be visible

Good going with that magic wand of yours

Regards
Alan
  • #19
  • Oct 7, 2005 4:58pm Oct 7, 2005 4:58pm
Quoting firehorse
Hi,I just checked and it just popped up to be visible

Good going with that magic wand of yours

Regards
Alan
Thanks Alan. There are actually two copies of that thread there now.
  • #20
  • Oct 8, 2005 5:58am Oct 8, 2005 5:58am
<hr style="color: rgb(209, 209, 225);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> Hi FT,

Thanks very much for a great review of this s/w. Browsing through the Vantage Point website, I noticed that there's a claim of 80% accuracy. As you noted in the thread with the various graphs you posted, you've chosen days where the system has performed very well to illustrate your points. I wonder though whether your experience with the s/w is that the system is accurate 4 times out of 5; this just seems a "too good to be true" ratio taken at face value. And, secondly, on the days that the s/w was not able to forecast the day properly, just how far off was it and was is mostly for e.g. unexpected economic events?

Thank you!
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
To clarify... The "pictures" I posted were primarily ones where the systems predictions were pretty much right on the money. However the sample system I posted contains both the wins and losses from my trades during that period.

As far as their 80 percent accuracy I addressed that in the article. If you'll recall I mentioned that it refers to one of the indicators -- the "predicted 10 day moving average" which predicts market direction 4 days in advance. That indicator is correct about 80 percent of the time and varies somewhat from one market to another. However knowing that the 10 day moving average will be above (or below) where it is today -- 4 days in advance is not enough information to make money. If this software signalled trades and was right 80 percent of the time that is in a pretty rare arena indeed. Even if it did that is not such a great feat. I've created systems that backtested 96 percent accuracy but the targets were about 20 pips and the stops were about 250 pips. I didn't lose often but take those three or four losses out of 100 within a few trades of each other and the system would have a huge drawdown.

With VantagePoint the issue is whether you can make a profitable system from the softwares predictions. Then the next issue is whether you can trade the system profitably. VantagePoint helps a lot but you have to design a workable system to use it with.

FT
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