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How big an account one needs to win in forex everyday?

  • #41
  • Apr 12, 2009 1:10pm Apr 12, 2009 1:10pm
Quoting mparker
opie --- remember that neat little kid on the andy griffith show (its on cable re-runs) he went on to become a very notable director, and you SO remind me of him --- even to the same names !

thnx for the laugh !

Ooryay elcomway.
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  • #42
  • Apr 12, 2009 1:21pm Apr 12, 2009 1:21pm
Quoting billye
apologize Cobra ...

by saying that your bank fund manager can save in madoff banks and get risk free 10% ROI ... I am referring to someone really did it.
I am not indicating that he himself is playing accounting tricks... and I wouldn't guess.

for your goal I partially agree that part-time trader can aim for 10% ROI in a bear stocks market year,
-- if he puts in full time and full effort and for his own money and family/life stake, and take a little risk, he could have achived higher; but it's different case if managing others.

in a bull...
Do you know what you are trying to say here? I certainly don't!
By the way this is Forex Faxtory not 10%ROI Stock Circus!
Never Ever Give Up!
  • #43
  • Apr 12, 2009 1:25pm Apr 12, 2009 1:25pm
ya know, THAT could well be a problem down the road --- what do they call it anyway . . . . . . . "unforeseen circumstance ?"

I better get my George Sorros suit and tie ready !

now 10%, while not a horrid number, wont take a $1000 account to a point where you become self sufficient in a year or so, although as pointed out, 10% on a billion dollars puts you into a whole different ball park and league --- even the cheerleaders are a whole lot different also !

but what ever happened to "zero sum", which i where I entered the conversation, since the money takes care of itself --- you either gonna make it or not make it, and theres a lot you can do by learning to trade, but if its not in you, then its not in you !

but WARFARE --- the rape and pillage, the slaughter of innocent investors trying for their measly 10% --- the destruction of banking institutions and the pulling down of their walls -- the hanging and shooting of bank managers --- NOW THERES SOMETHING ZERO SUM ADVOCATES CAN SINK THEIR TEETH INTO, so to speak !

Lets get back to blood and guts and the destruction of all the other traders in the world --- lets get down to basics here !

LOL

mp



Quoting Leonlorenzo
Why wont it? Many people on your thead are making atleast 350pips a day, and there only rookies/newbs. At 84k+ pips per anum per head I think you may just be the guy who starts the biggest liquidity crisis ever.

I was responding to Cobra where he mentioned % Return, and was just stating that larger size likely goes hand-in-hand with lower % return.
  • #44
  • Apr 12, 2009 1:31pm Apr 12, 2009 1:31pm
Quoting mparker
ya know, THAT could well be a problem down the road --- what do they call it anyway . . . . . . . "unforeseen circumstance ?"

I better get my George Sorros suit and tie ready !
You have to own one of these....
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Living the adventure in my head.
  • #45
  • Apr 12, 2009 1:32pm Apr 12, 2009 1:32pm
Quoting Cobra
Do you know what you are trying to say here? I certainly don't!
By the way this is Forex Faxtory not 10%ROI Stock Circus!
i'm talking about what to expect with low effort for most people, there are data out there for many years,

saying bank savings 2-3%, bonds 4%, stocks long term 8% over 10 yrs.

for forex I think average should be a little below water assuming no overtrading and no overleverage.

if you have more objective data from authority showing what should be the average expections out of these tradings, pls list.
  • #46
  • Apr 12, 2009 1:37pm Apr 12, 2009 1:37pm
It's such an open ended question! Ask twenty different traders, get twenty different replies. There are just way too many variables to give a single definitive answer.

My target is 20% per month (I'm still new).
My goal is not to have my a$$ handed to me on a paper plate!
  • #47
  • Apr 12, 2009 1:37pm Apr 12, 2009 1:37pm
NEATO -- if i wore that one evening, the McGivers would be raping and pillaging ME !

nice to see your sense of humor !

mp

Quoting Leonlorenzo
You have to own one of these....
  • #48
  • Apr 12, 2009 1:38pm Apr 12, 2009 1:38pm
Quoting billye
i'm talking about what to expect with low effort for most people, there are data out there for many years,

saying bank savings 2-3%, bonds 4%, stocks long term 8% over 10 yrs.

for forex I think average should be a little below water assuming no overtrading.
My dear friend
Thx for your inputs. I rather stick to what i know best. Forex. I rather do what i do best. Forex Trading.

Good luck in what you are doing. May your trading wishes come true!
Never Ever Give Up!
  • #49
  • Apr 12, 2009 1:43pm Apr 12, 2009 1:43pm
Quoting opie999
It's such an open ended question! Ask twenty different traders, get twenty different replies. There are just way too many variables to give a single definitive answer.

My target is 20% per month (I'm still new).
My goal is not to have my a$$ handed to me on a paper plate!
Nice to see real traders with real goals in here!
Keep it up! 20% per month is achieveable!
Good trading.
Never Ever Give Up!
  • #50
  • Edited 1:54pm Apr 12, 2009 1:44pm | Edited 1:54pm
I mean, the bank's fund manager could simply accept clients fund and deposit in madoff's bank and get 10% ROI. is this a way considered risk free for many years?

okey, I agree that I was making a joke just now and I apologize for this. I have no proof that the one you see did not do it by trading.

Quoting Cobra
Do you know what you are trying to say here? I certainly don't!
Originally Posted by billye http://www.forexfactory.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
apologize Cobra ...

by saying that your bank fund manager can save in madoff banks and get risk free 10% ROI ... I am referring to someone really did it.
I am not indicating that he himself is playing accounting tricks... and I wouldn't guess.
  • #51
  • Apr 12, 2009 1:46pm Apr 12, 2009 1:46pm
its really pretty simple psychology, as RIGHT NOW, your needs are not excessive, but money is a drug to most, and like a drug the need GROWS !

today being a millionaire is not much in NYC with condos and co-ops going for that price alone, leaving you not much left to buy groceries.

once you make a few million, then you begin eyeing someones BIGGER yacht and home, and now your "desires" multiply exponentially !

WHERE DOES IT STOP --- ask the persons shrink, and they wont even know !

the answers depend on the desires, but for "normal" people, starting out on the path to becoming a billionaire, i think i answered the question down there a few posts back ---- $20K wont do it cause you need to DRAW the money AND increase the amount to cover the draw and expenses, so you move up to $50K which is "enough", given decent trading abilities to both cover "normal, not multi millionaire needs" AND build your equity quickly at the same time.

the MORE you have, given you can trade and not just throw it away, the faster, easier and more you will earn --- kinda a law of physics i think !

then of course, out on your lawn, you may meet that ancient chinese general who knows so much about warfare, and THERE GOES everything !

damn that zero sum crap !

LOL

mp



Quoting opie999
It's such an open ended question! Ask twenty different traders, get twenty different replies. There are just way too many variables to give a single definitive answer.

My target is 20% per month (I'm still new).
My goal is not to have my a$$ handed to me on a paper plate!
  • #52
  • Apr 12, 2009 2:01pm Apr 12, 2009 2:01pm
Quoting billye
i'm talking about what to expect with low effort for most people, there are data out there for many years,

saying bank savings 2-3%, bonds 4%, stocks long term 8% over 10 yrs.

for forex I think average should be a little below water assuming no overtrading and no overleverage.

if you have more objective data from authority showing what should be the average expections out of these tradings, pls list.
Who cares about "most people"?!? I'm sure as hell not "most people"! This is high effort stuff especially when starting out. Bank savings and long term investing in equities simply does not compare to what we do trading spot forex. It's like comparing a dump truck to a formula one race car, i.e. slow and relatively safe versus high speed and high risk. It's all about RISK!!

Generally speaking, the higher the risk, the greater the potential return. I happen to agree with ShelbyCobra, 10% per annum just doesn't cut it. It may be just peachy keen for you and I respect that. For me, it's go big or go home. That's what attracted me to forex in the first place!!
  • #53
  • Apr 12, 2009 2:04pm Apr 12, 2009 2:04pm
Quoting billye
(1+20%)^12 month=890% return a year.

I'm making no judgments, I am showing the math result only.

oh

890% ^ 50 yrs= 3 x 10^47 $ which can buy the earth....
"The world is not enough"

Nice movie btw. ^^
  • #54
  • Apr 12, 2009 2:04pm Apr 12, 2009 2:04pm
Quoting billye
negative sum for all traders, if remove the broker part who profit from spread.
It's negative sum for the losers and I doubt that's why you're here. Nothing else matters but winning, yes?
  • #55
  • Edited 2:48pm Apr 12, 2009 2:06pm | Edited 2:48pm
Quoting opie999
Generally speaking, the higher the risk, the greater the potential return. I happen to agree with ShelbyCobra, 10% per annum just doesn't cut it. It may be just peachy keen for you and I respect that. For me, it's go big or go home. That's what attracted me to forex in the first place!!
hi opie

yeah I only mention that 5-10% ROI a year for part time trader with low risk taken.
(part time meaning trading high time frame, trading less; low risk means low leverage, like position size=acc size or 10% of acc size)

if people want to put in high effort and high stake I guess it could mean better result with higher risk. but you also mentioned that you're aware of the risk.

for negative sum, it's a common definition for spread:
a trader buy E/U at 1.3536 from broker
another trader sell E/U at 1.3535 from broker
so from this deal, broker makes 1pip.
then 2 trader in sum is -1 pip if price do not move at all...

and since they have to close it, at close there is another -1 pip paied to broker.
so the 2 trader in sum is -2pip.
  • #56
  • Apr 12, 2009 2:17pm Apr 12, 2009 2:17pm
oh my golly gosh billye --- are you stating that YOU dont win everyday -- is THAT what i read here ?

HOW could that be possible ?

SERIOUSLY !

mp


Quoting billye

win .. every day? no way.
  • #57
  • Edited 2:46pm Apr 12, 2009 2:31pm | Edited 2:46pm
Quoting ajanjua
Is 20,000 enough? Lets base answers on one lot only.
let me state what is my understanding for this title... " How big an account one needs to win in forex everyday? "
the poster leave a topic and run away...

I think he means, playing 1 standard lot, 100k size

what is the safe acc size to keep him alive (no margin call, that means win). (considering someone open a 2nd lot in extreme cases)

so he is asking if 20k acc trading 1 lot is safe? ... or if 10k acc trading 1 lot is safe, or if 30k acc trading 1 lot is safe??

this is my understanding of the topic in this thread.

win .. every day? no way generally [edit: except for a few who have proved they can, like ..]. maybe he means survive everyday.

so he means
" How small an account one needs, to survive in forex everyday trading 1 lot safely? is it 1k or 5k or 10k or 20k or 50k? acc"
generally answer is if he's not comfortable trading 1 lot, he can use mini or micro accounts.
  • #58
  • Apr 12, 2009 2:44pm Apr 12, 2009 2:44pm
Quoting billye
let me state what is my understanding for this title... " How big an account one needs to win in forex everyday? "
the poster leave a topic and run away...

I think he means, playing 1 standard lot, 100k size

what is the safe acc size to keep him alive (no margin call, that means win). (considering someone open a 2nd lot in extreme cases)

so he is asking if 20k acc trading 1 lot is safe? ... or if 10k acc trading 1 lot is safe, or if 30k acc trading 1 lot is safe??

this is...
I think you've finally nailed it. The question is absurd. It was obviously posed by a clueless n00b. We would see the question was answered more than adequately if we went back and re-read the first page of the thread. After that was when things started getting interesting!
  • #59
  • Apr 12, 2009 2:47pm Apr 12, 2009 2:47pm
well, he asked the question and now has probably been arrested by his government for asking it, so we cant ever tell what was actually meant until they release him, broken and bloody !

your interpretation certainly makes sense, and one lot with a possible two on $20K is a walk in the park with miss playmate of the year --- heck, why not have a couple of miss playmates ?

of course its completely dependent on experience and ability, but its unthinkable to me to not make it so, especiallly if one limits their trading and therefore their exposure, to downside risk !

$20K and one lot trades --- one would have to be missing an awful lot not to make that work !

mp




Quoting billye
let me state what is my understanding for this title... " How big an account one needs to win in forex everyday? "
the poster leave a topic and run away...

I think he means, playing 1 standard lot, 100k size

what is the safe acc size to keep him alive (no margin call, that means win). (considering someone open a 2nd lot in extreme cases)

so he is asking if 20k acc trading 1 lot is safe? ... or if 10k acc trading 1 lot is safe, or if 30k acc trading 1 lot is safe??

t
  • #60
  • Apr 12, 2009 2:59pm Apr 12, 2009 2:59pm
Quoting opie999
I think you've finally nailed it. The question is absurd. It was obviously posed by a clueless n00b. We would see the question was answered more than adequately if we went back and re-read the first page of the thread. After that was when things started getting interesting!
ok, I just saw this title and jump in thinking it's a rookie question, so the ROI etc things are to set expectations for him in the beginning several months or so.
now I see you guys are now talking about how big acc & profit ratios /how to make a full time trading life.
sorry for distraction....

maybe you guys can continue the FTT(full time trader) topic since it's more interesting seems and the guy opening the rookie question already disappear.

=> go ahead & cheers, it's possibly doable.(FTT)
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