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Trading with $1000 per pip?

  • Post #1
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  • First Post: Apr 1, 2009 9:40am Apr 1, 2009 9:40am
I think Oanda has a maximum of 10,000,000 units on a single trade. If you want to trade more then that then you need to open another trade.

I was just wondering if an ECN is better if say you wanted to trade 20,000,000 or more per pip?

Say the ECN was Interactive Brokers.

And no I don't have a million dollars to trade, haha. I'm just curious if there is a limit to those bucket shops where an ECN becomes necessary.

So no, this is not really relevant to me at all, lol, I have a $4000 Live account but I am interested in learning about how big money flows and how big a retail trader can trade.

Just to clarify: 10,000,000 units is roughly equal to $1000 per pip.
want I want to know is how many units a retail trader can assign per pip as a maximum. Lets say your strategy is to collect two or three pips per trade. You obviously want to be filled and not get slippage. And at the same time you need a broker than can handle your size. So is a ECN capable of handling say, $2000 per pip or greater, BUT without slippage?
With ECN you can see the size of the book so it should tell you if you are going to be filled and at what price. I've never tried 10Mil Units order so can't comment on the slippage. I'm guessing that 5-10Mil order should be fine with retail brokers like IB or MBT, but if you are really doing that size, you should use FXAll or something like that.
Quoting altrader
So is a ECN capable of handling say, $2000 per pip or greater, BUT without slippage?
With market orders? No, not the retail ECNs. Once you start talking about >5M market orders, you're going to have to accept some slippage (a pip or two).

I can't speak for FXall, but several Currenex hubs and HS FXi are very similar to the retail ECNs in terms of book depth. You don't see >5M on the inside spread. With that being said, you can fill 20M on say EUR/USD within a 3-4 pip spread.
What TraderKGB says is true, but you should also realize that the number you see on the inside spread is not necessarily representative of the true size available at that price. You will find LP's that have more actual depth than they are showing -- think iceberg orders. And the ECN's such as IB, Currenex, HotSpotFXi show similar size, but the spreads to vary a little bit. EBS, for a few currencies, has much more depth than is showing. You can easily do 20 million in EUR/USD or USD/JPY without much slippage, even though the inside bid/ask doesn't show it.
Quoting shooting15
What TraderKGB says is true, but you should also realize that the number you see on the inside spread is not necessarily representative of the true size available at that price. You will find LP's that have more actual depth than they are showing -- think iceberg orders. And the ECN's such as IB, Currenex, HotSpotFXi show similar size, but the spreads to vary a little bit. EBS, for a few currencies, has much more depth than is showing. You can easily do 20 million in EUR/USD or USD/JPY without much slippage, even though the inside bid/ask doesn't...

Shooting who are you PBing through for EBS? What experience do you have with them?
you can find this at the bottom of FXCM's website

**FXCM Trading Station allows for order sizes up to 50 million per trade. Traders have the ability to trade incremental sizes (multiple orders of 50 million for the same pair).
sorry guys but i think it is stupid to take a big size trades with market makers like oanda , i think u need tier 1 banks , L2dealer ( belongs to IG ) offer i think 10-15 tier 1 banks as a liquidity pool and they give u a direct access to this pool ...
don't even think about trading $1000 per point with a bucketshop - they will screw you over big time!
Quoting jpapin
don't even think about trading $1000 per point with a bucketshop - they will screw you over big time!
Going to agree here -- If you're executing orders over 10 mio per click you should be on some type of CNX ECN hub to handle your orders.

I would stay away from FXCM's active trader, or CNX at bucket shops like FXDD...
Quoting jpapin
don't even think about trading $1000 per point with a bucketshop - they will screw you over big time!
Couldn't agree more. If you, the trader, are continplating trading $1000 per lot with Oanda or any Retail Broker (Bucketshop),good luck. Instead you should take your account equity and hit Vegas; bet it all on Black. At least Vegas will give you a chance of winning, even if it's marginal.
It's the dream man it's the dream, aim for 1 trade per month for 20pips and thats it, 1hour per month tops

Ofcourse people who trade at this level will be 24/7 and save save save save as they'll never be rich enough.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
Quoting Turveyd
It's the dream man it's the dream, aim for 1 trade per month for 20pips and thats it, 1hour per month tops

Ofcourse people who trade at this level will be 24/7 and save save save save as they'll never be rich enough.
better off going to the casino and bet all on black/red if that's your plan!

would be nice though
you might find this interesting http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=60890
Quoting jpapin
better off going to the casino and bet all on black/red if that's your plan!

would be nice though

Dunno, you could sit around for a few hours, waiting for a strong market move, jump in and jump out for +20, maybe more at times so 3 monthly
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
If you are trading size in the majors, just use fx futures. Problem solved. No counterparty risk, and same price is available to everyone.
Quoting cesare76fx
you might find this interesting http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=60890
Thank you very much, that does help me a lot.

But I just wonder how much a 10 million unit order could move the market anyway, say the EUR/USD? e.g. $1000/pip

Those guys in that thread say break the order down for better execution so that you don't move the market.

But i want to scalp. I only need two or three pips at a time. I want to trade off fluctuations.
Quoting Privacy is gold
If you are trading size in the majors, just use fx futures. Problem solved. No counterparty risk, and same price is available to everyone.
true, this is little counterparty risk but you're exposing yourself to serious liquidity risk. 12 months ago, if you wanted to trade 100 lots during eu or us session you could most likely get that done on the inside bid/offer but in these mkts, prepare to take on board some slippage. As has always been the case in fx and most likely for the forseable future, spot fx is the deeper mkt and where you'll get the better avg price. I dont want to get into a useless spot/futures argument cos if you want to even consider thinking about trading in clips of 10 then you should know the characteristics of spot/fx and be able to determine yourself which is more practical and profitable for you. Also, if you are trading in clips of 10s then you should really just hire a developer to write an app for you to aggregate numerous spot liq pools and chuck in the futures.
Quoting altrader
Thank you very much, that does help me a lot.

But I just wonder how much a 10 million unit order could move the market anyway, say the EUR/USD? e.g. $1000/pip

Those guys in that thread say break the order down for better execution so that you don't move the market.

But i want to scalp. I only need two or three pips at a time. I want to trade off fluctuations.

2-3 pips profit per trade isn't worth it, if you factor in 13pip SL Min is useable, you'll need 5-6 profits to cover each loss and the markets got to move 5-6pips to net you 3pips, I've crunched the maths previously aim for a average of 8+ pips, ie sometimes you get 2, sometimes you get 15, or your just spinning your heals.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
Quoting Turveyd
2-3 pips profit per trade isn't worth it, if you factor in 13pip SL Min is useable, you'll need 5-6 profits to cover each loss and the markets got to move 5-6pips to net you 3pips, I've crunched the maths previously aim for a average of 8+ pips, ie sometimes you get 2, sometimes you get 15, or your just spinning your heals.
Many thanks, I'll look into that
MBT shows you what they have on their market and you can see from time to time 1000 lots order and even above that so that would be 10000$/pip but i guess that kind of orders are for real exchange not for trading.
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