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  • #761
  • Mar 22, 2009 9:45pm Mar 22, 2009 9:45pm
hi..all

My question to you Fx.Ranger....you said you took that trade...no problem but you would have had plenty of time to declare the trade entry level before it was hit.....anyway....SO why did you not take the trade the next time it hit that same line......wisdomFX says he takes the first 2 times it hits....it may have also been profitable....

So you have 1 or 2 wins...great....now lets see how you go with the next 60+ trades....wisdomFX said he had been trading it since Aug ...so thats a lot of trades for only 2- 3 losing trades to get him 95%winning...
  • #762
  • Mar 22, 2009 9:55pm Mar 22, 2009 9:55pm
Hi guys,

Thanks for the welcome

I am not here to take sides or anything, just wanted to participate in a few of the conversations shared here. I only recently read this thread (this weekend), and there are lot of places where i have been mentioned .. lol .. probably as a "newbie march registered forex trader", cheerleading, etc .. lol. Its ok

Anyway, like i said, im not here to defend myself or take sides with anyone, just want a decent constructive discussion.

First off, wwwin, sorry i dont understand when you say "two levels were already busted TODAY". From what i can see the price is just between 636 and 666 levels. But maybe, ive misunderstood something.

Angler, i understand your frustration. However, from what i have understood from wisdomfx's journal, is that he gives you the levels in advance and then trades each level when hit. Now HOW MANY TIMES the levels are going to hit before it breaks out from that range is ofcourse uncertain. How manytimes HE trades it, i dont know. Personally, i have traded, with respect to my timezone (mainly euro session), as you may have read, just once as it hits. This is not my only source of income, so i can afford to make 20-50 pips a day. I'm hoping to make it a relatively large part of my income, but im no where there yet.

As for news related trades, im not sure if he or anyone else does. I never do. I'd rather just put that money on BLACK in roulette one a night .. hehe..

You may have read from various posts, that i mention, anyone using S/R lines to trade should be well rehersed with the ability of reading price action. I personally beleive in it, you just know whats happening. Obviously, if you are not around the computer, yes, put a limit order, but smaller than your usual position. Coz in my opinion, without price action you are still taking a gamble, but atleast its an EDUCATED gamble..

Hope this shares a bit of my views
  • #763
  • Edited 10:15pm Mar 22, 2009 10:01pm | Edited 10:15pm
Well my broker opens at 5:00 eastern, that is why I said that 1.3636 was busted, if you have a 6:00 opening broker, than it would have opened above 1.3636. So I have deleted the post to save confusion. For your info, the opening price at 5:00 pm was 1.3619 and it flew by 1.3636. 1.3577 was also busted but the market was closed for most people.

One thing that I am curious about is where are you placing your stops or if you use stops at all. Because price fluctuates and hindsight you can always come back and say you profited from a power level after it is busted but comes back down. That can happen if you are not using stops. But you can also get whipped real good. So my question are you using stops or not? And if you use stops where are they placed? I am very glad that you are posting here since we are banned by Wisdom.



Quoting fx.ranger
Hi guys,

Thanks for the welcome

I am not here to take sides or anything, just wanted to participate in a few of the conversations shared here. I only recently read this thread (this weekend), and there are lot of places where i have been mentioned .. lol .. probably as a "newbie march registered forex trader", cheerleading, etc .. lol. Its ok

Anyway, like i said, im not here to defend myself or take sides with anyone, just want a decent constructive discussion.

First off, wwwin, sorry i dont understand when you say "two levels were...
  • #764
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:14pm Mar 22, 2009 10:14pm
I agree with you on trading only the 1st time bounce-off and on avoid news trading... I traded live to test that and these are things to take care.

also you need to care about leverage and stops...

other than that, there may be a little more things you need to know to make that strategy WORK... I was looking last week but not recently coz busy finishing my stop/loss practice that was owed/delayed for a long time.

this week I was back to trading follow the trend but the trade experience on S/R bounce-off will help judge when price will stall even when you follow the trend... also no number S/R is bible just the previous S/R average plus some other price over-rise/fall indicator may be safer than following some bible price blindly.

I am not so interested in the debate on win-rate things... It's basically how lucky or how extreme lucky is a trader, or how extreme lucky a trader claims, even kind of privacy, since I never see people like to post losses, even teacher may not play well in exams; even in life, 90% people show-off their happy life in forums and little post their sorrows, only if they seek for comfort from others.

I'm more interested if a system could be established to prove as a working one (well if it's really working with a realistic profit goal)... that could turn a negative discussion in to a productive one.

many olympic champions coach cannot do it, but it does not say that the strategy they establish cannot work, if people can benefit from that after their own judgment, and the coach enjoy the compliments, there is still a win-win possibility here.

Quoting fx.ranger
Hi guys,

Thanks for the welcome

I am not here to take sides or anything, just wanted to participate in a few of the conversations shared here. I only recently read this thread (this weekend), and there are lot of places where i have been mentioned .. lol .. probably as a "newbie march registered forex trader", cheerleading, etc .. lol. Its ok

Anyway, like i said, im not here to defend myself or take sides with anyone, just want a decent constructive discussion.

First off, wwwin, sorry i dont understand when you say "two levels were...
  • #765
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:20pm Mar 22, 2009 10:20pm
hi all...

well I understand what you are doing with regard to trading wisdomFX method...I am more concerned about the way wisdomFX trades it...

As I pointed out in a previous post here...he had a trade with a number of lots and let it run to a 93pip drawn down,,,and at that point he had no idea if it was going to turn or not....so where is his MM....it must be pretty wide and based on the pips taken for a win...that is quite large of a SL level..

I am also thinkng it would be hard to trade that way when your broker changes the spread...

It was made very clear for some time now...that 2 - 3 days of live calls would remove most doubts.......but still he refuses....You really must ask why....if he knows his trades will be successful...whats the problem...

And to be honest if your not asking the same question......well
  • #766
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:22pm Mar 22, 2009 10:22pm
Quoting billye
I agree with you on trading only the 1st time bounce-off and on avoid news trading... I traded live to test that and these are things to take care.

also you need to care about leverage and stops...

other than that, there may be a little more things you need to know to make that strategy WORK... I was looking last week but not recently coz busy finishing my stop/loss practice that was owed/delayed for a long time.

this week I was back to trading follow the trend but the trade experience on S/R bounce-off will help judge when price will stall...
Yeah, I agree with you in turning a negative discussion into a positive one. But when you only have hinsight trades, no information at all about where stops are used or if used, and you also turn a power level to short into a power level to buy, without posting that that is the case, and in hindsight come back to claim a long victory from a busted short signal, then what you have is fictional trading, which easily leads the discussion into the negative.
  • #767
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:27pm Mar 22, 2009 10:27pm
Quoting Angler
hi..all

My question to you Fx.Ranger....you said you took that trade...no problem but you would have had plenty of time to declare the trade entry level before it was hit.....anyway....SO why did you not take the trade the next time it hit that same line......wisdomFX says he takes the first 2 times it hits....it may have also been profitable....
Angler, fantastic question. I think you are getting me wrong. My forex career has not started the day i registered with FOREXFACTORY. I have my own systems. I trade 1 min charts, 2 min charts, 3 min charts, 5 min charts, 15 min charts, 30 min charts - for short term scalping. I do also look at other higher time frames. I do not only follow wisdomfx's levels. I have just STARTED that recently, and its like a cheat book. I have my own rules in trading. Many people do - you know, like dont trade when bernake is speeking, or when there is news or when you've had a fight with your wife! lol. So my rule is, and its from MY EXPERIECE, being a scalper, trade a level ONCE. Then wait for the next opportunity. Millions will be presented. Its a fact.

I'm just happy with these levels, which i have discovered recently, while reading through people's live journals. Its like a cheat book. It tells you trade what you want, but come those levels, BEWARE price will bounce off... I backtested a bit, and looked promising. Then Demo'ed a bit, looked great. Last week, i LIVED it a bit, and (touch wood) no loss from THOSE levels. .. yes i did have losses last week, but from my system.

I'm not here to back these levels being 100% loss proof. I'm sure im gonna have a level that doesnt work. I'll try to average it out with nearer levels or +15-20 pip increments. Then if still not working out, will close that position with an averaged smaller loss or break even, etc. Yes, i agree no system is 100%. But, i have a trading plan. I stick to it. Like for eg. part of my trading plan is, if at any one go, my total loss (even when averaged out) hits 4.5% of my equity, im out, till a fresh new day. Just part of my system. I'm no guru.

And as for why i didnt call that short LIVE, im sorry i just had limit orders set after the market opened. And then was away from home. I've shared my current LIVE limit orders in the other thread, which i dont have to, but i have. I dont know why a person is considered ungenuine when he doesnt share his personal trades - well, here you go, i have.

Quote
So you have 1 or 2 wins...great....now lets see how you go with the next 60+ trades....wisdomFX said he had been trading it since Aug ...so thats a lot of trades for only 2- 3 losing trades to get him 95%winning...

Ok, i think i know what it is. Its male ego. "I have more money that you" ego. Or "I am a better trader than you" ego. I'm not here to compete with anyone, i really am not. I dont have to have 60+ winning trades to to reach wisdomfx's winning streak. Great on him, but why is it that i or we have to reach that level? Its great that it is rite now that im have a good win:loss ratio.. I dont need 100% or even 90%. Im happy with what i have. Overall, im sure your aim is the same - increase your equity.

So lets not try to prove someone wrong on his winning streak. Lets have a discussion about the numbers, the levels, the price action. Yes tell me, that levels is ABSURD because according to my chart this moving average and this fib level, etc ... leads to that! You get what i am saying?

I hope i have made some sort of a good discussion here. I mean, its simple, someone comes to your business and says, "hey, i can bring you 10 more customers, just do this" - you dont sit there and argue "no, man, it can be! 10 customers? bullshit! no one can bring 10 customers. ADMIT 1 customer and i'll accept YOU to bring ME that 1 customer, but if you tell me 10 customers, i'll tell you to piss off!" lol ... But yes, argue "10 customers? well do i have to do anything illegal? whats the catch? Why do we have to bring those 10 customers this way and not that way, etc.."

Constructive discussion
  • #768
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:31pm Mar 22, 2009 10:31pm
hi all..


so so so true wwwin...........


Billye.....you said you like to trade the bounce the first time on each line...well that happened last week and the price has been running back and forth through it ever since....SO...why is the line still active...based on the 1 bounce theory..
  • #769
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:31pm Mar 22, 2009 10:31pm
isn't this the leverage, stop/loss and profit goal thing I'm trying to prove/disaprove?

most people's logic is:
tight s/l -> stop/out before profit goal hits -> enlarge s/l so t/p goal can hit before s/l hit -> position can go in red sometimes -> add position to average price (coupled with a high leverage) -> blow.

so I think more realistic is profit goal -> stop/loss target -> increase leverage only if proven... but profit goal and leverage seems to be chicken and egg.

then seems better to never use a leverage before a strategy is proven by time.... then the profit goal will look too low (5~15% a year) and you question about ROI of effort.

why shakes fail in live show? because he is looking for hundred pips a day everyday... if he cannot get it, most of the time he stops out.

Quoting Angler
hi all...

And to be honest if your not asking the same question......well
  • #770
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:41pm Mar 22, 2009 10:41pm
Quoting wwwin
Well my broker opens at 5:00 eastern, that is why I said that 1.3636 was busted, if you have a 6:00 opening broker, than it would have opened above 1.3636. So I have deleted the post to save confusion. For your info, the opening price at 5:00 pm was 1.3619 and it flew by 1.3636. 1.3577 was also busted but the market was closed for most people.

One thing that I am curious about is where are you placing your stops or if you use stops at all. Because price fluctuates and hindsight you can always come back and say you profited from a power level after...
Ok, that sorts out the confusion. The levels are still not broken. You have a different broker.

Regarding my stops, again i speak for myself. 90% of the time i am infront of the PC and looking at price action. My mouse is my stop! lol. But as for when i am away from the pc, my stops are based on 1hrly and 4 hrly S/R breaks and/or recent highs/lows and or fib level breaks, trendline breaks, etc.. They differ. I mean sometimes after a huge ranging session, you just know in your experience that price is going to break out big time! Keep stops tight then. Cant be for certain.. But yes, i do watch price action a lot, especially coz i trade lower time frames.

Regards,
ranger
  • #771
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:43pm Mar 22, 2009 10:43pm
hi all..



well we would all like to have a discussion about his method....but there is so little info about his method that we can not do that....and I am not here to discuss what you have on the charts or anyone else....its his trading I am looking at.....if you make it work for you..thats great...I dont have a problem with that at all....after all thats probably why you on or forum ...to look around..
  • #772
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:43pm Mar 22, 2009 10:43pm
no I did not say trade every time. I mean never trade a bounce level a 2nd time in short time... because if 1st time touch a major resistance 70% chance it will retrace, then 2nd time, only 40% will retrace, 3rd time, only 20%... (I added a rule like not trade again within 30min of a previous bounce trade close, and not enter again within +-30pips range)

also there are other indicators to tell you that very likely a retrace will happen or no chance at all... see this pic, a very fast ramp and a very slow ramp, chances of retrace is different (I think wisdom also use a indicator but he don't want to disclose that however, he is saying that p-level is everything... anyway)

Quoting Angler
hi all..
Billye.....you said you like to trade the bounce the first time on each line...well that happened last week and the price has been running back and forth through it ever since....SO...why is the line still active...based on the 1 bounce theory..
Attached Images
  • #773
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:44pm Mar 22, 2009 10:44pm
Quoting billye
isn't this the leverage, stop/loss and profit goal thing I'm trying to prove/disaprove?

most people's logic is:
tight s/l -> stop/out before profit goal hits -> enlarge s/l so t/p goal can hit before s/l hit -> position can go in red sometimes -> add position to average price (coupled with a high leverage) -> blow.

so I think more realistic is profit goal -> stop/loss target -> increase leverage only if proven... but profit goal and leverage seems to be chicken and egg.

then seems better to never use a leverage before a strategy is proven...
billye, the problem is that a strategy cannot be proven by time, b/c the market is too dynamic, and shifts from ranging to trending, and from having high range bars to low range bars, from having short runs to long runs, so even if it is proven for a month, when the dynamics change the strategy is crap. When you have all the answers, they change all the questions. So the strategy has to change according to what is happening.
  • #774
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:46pm Mar 22, 2009 10:46pm
Quoting Angler
hi all...

well I understand what you are doing with regard to trading wisdomFX method...I am more concerned about the way wisdomFX trades it...

As I pointed out in a previous post here...he had a trade with a number of lots and let it run to a 93pip drawn down,,,and at that point he had no idea if it was going to turn or not....so where is his MM....it must be pretty wide and based on the pips taken for a win...that is quite large of a SL level..

I am also thinkng it would be hard to trade that way when your broker changes the spread...

It...
Sorry Angler, can you point me to that post of that drawdown? Dont remember backtesting that big of a drawdown..

But yes, MM plays a big role - its upto you to decide how many positions you will average and what your MM style is going to be.. I have my own style, which works for me.

Also, yes, broker and spreads play a big role. I only trade E/U, and most brokers have E/U with 2 pip fixed spread. ECNs have them even less spreads, but with commissions.

As for me questioning someone for his live calls - well, i mentioned that i really dont care. I'm getting what i want and i am happy. I'm not going to stop trading because someone doesnt give me live calls. Thats just silly.

  • #775
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:49pm Mar 22, 2009 10:49pm
hi all...


ohh thats a good one....where did you steal that...

"When you have all the answers, they change all the questions"
  • #776
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:49pm Mar 22, 2009 10:49pm
Quoting wwwin
Yeah, I agree with you in turning a negative discussion into a positive one. But when you only have hinsight trades, no information at all about where stops are used or if used, and you also turn a power level to short into a power level to buy, without posting that that is the case, and in hindsight come back to claim a long victory from a busted short signal, then what you have is fictional trading, which easily leads the discussion into the negative.
Hi,

S/R lines are easy... when price is coming from above, toward a level, you LONG .. and price coming from below towards a level on top of your chart, you SHORT.

Is that what you meant turning powerlevels into long to short?

  • #777
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:54pm Mar 22, 2009 10:54pm
Quoting fx.ranger
Hi,

S/R lines are easy... when price is coming from above, toward a level, you LONG .. and price coming from below towards a level on top of your chart, you SHORT.

Is that what you meant turning powerlevels into long to short?

So you are saying that if a upper line is busted coming from below, when the price retraces the bust and hits that line coming from above down to that busted line, that that busted power level automatically becomes a power level to go long from?
  • #778
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:55pm Mar 22, 2009 10:55pm
hi all..


No he means that at one point he said he was only taking bounces.....then he starts taking breakouts.....from the levels....at what point do you know what its going to be....
  • #779
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:56pm Mar 22, 2009 10:56pm
one need to tell his profit goal and prove with his trade's track record, if it's above 50% a year, go talk to buffet... that's easy.

I believe someone could trade only this by long time of practice, but I'm not pursuing this stategy.

but 1st, this kind of trade do tell me when price are likely to bounce back or stall when I FOLLOW the trend. this is where I benefit from that... because you don't want to join a trend to follow and find it turn back immediately when you enter.

2nd but minor thing maybe is use market order to catch a trend causes slippage on open and close position, so knowing where prices stall during a trend can be places where we use limit order to get on the bus and get off... this one I'm not so sure.

Quoting wwwin
billye, the problem is that a strategy cannot be proven by time, b/c the market is too dynamic, and shifts from ranging to trending, and from having high range bars to low range bars, from having short runs to long runs, so even if it is proven for a month, when the dynamics change the strategy is crap. When you have all the answers, they change all the questions.
  • #780
  • Mar 22, 2009 10:58pm Mar 22, 2009 10:58pm
Quoting Angler
hi all..


No he means that at one point he said he was only taking bounces.....then he starts taking breakouts.....from the levels....at what point do you know what its going to be....
oh, ok, not retrace but just take the breakout. OK, so then you have to close the trade against you and take a position the other way. That is good, but when do they do it? What's the entry based on? Because many times you can have false breakouts, then you are screwed twice.
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