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Stop Hunting 11 replies

Stop Hunting? 18 replies

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damn oanda stop hunting my account 1 reply

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Stop Hunting

Here is a recent example of stop hunting : :surprised
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And this one beats them all :
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What hellish hour was that?
Quoting AmatPro
And this one beats them all :
That's just a glitch within the platform most likely.
Quoting Rosco_P
What hellish hour was that?
The last chart was that of the FTSE100 futures of 12 May last year, when the large correction started. Suddenly the 'market' dropped from around 6000 to just above 3000 !!! A fall of 50% and even below the historic low of the dot.com 'crash' of march 2003.

Guess they were playing 'extreme stop hunting'.

I am still with this broker but I don't dare using stop losses anymore. It also happened more than once to me that whatever I did and wherever I put my stop loss, the 'market' always seemed to find a way to know where it was, then creeped to it, touched it, and then went on in the opposite direction to never come back.
That surely is a clear platform glitch and your broker should refund you any losses you may have suffered. Likewise the same broker shouldn't pay you any extra you would have earned if it put you in huge profit.
Stop hunting is fair...and by stop hunting i mean: where you're just trying to place trades near the prices where traders are likely to have set their stops. So essentially you are just riding the momentum of the flurry of stop orders getting triggered. There's nothing wrong with that, and some banks allegedly do that. I used a strategy like that for a while.

But manipulating prices; that's certainly not fair. It's despicable really.
Quoting Claude
Unfortunately there is nothing new here, brokers, market makers have always manipulated price to their advantage.

It is all part of the game in trading futures I had one broker tell me if I could stand it to simply stop trading.

Of course, the electronic age has made it more difficult now as you can see many traders have different feeds and can protect themselves.((Buyer beware))

On the other hand is also made it easier for your brokers as their sophisticated software shows exactly where everybody stops are, heck OandA, even provides this information on a graph. Not as in depth as they have I am certain, but still.

As far as the name of the broker that did this. It honestly doesn't really matter to me if you wanna make a difference. If you really want to send a message start trading with ECN direct routing no dealing desk. They truly have no reason to hunt down your stops.

There is a couple of the ECN that even have public statement saying they do not have and will not invest in any type of software to see where their client stops are positioned.

To me trading with an ECN with no dealing desk and direct routing
would be the only way to send a strong message.

Investigate it the ECN I deal with usually has a one pip spread on the currencies that I trade, and then charge me $1 dollar for a mini lot. 10$for regular lot Round-trip commission.

So I'd say that's pretty fair as far as commissions and spread go.

Hey,
noobi trader here
I cant seem to get enough of these horror stories
Just interested to know the ECN broker you use
I agree that is very fair
To be fair, it has to work both ways.

I wouldn't say a thing if I could get my entry orders filled at the prices that
others are being stopped out at. Instead, all I can get with retail brokers
at those levels is "requote".

Coder
Oanda recently had a huge price spike and they went in and corrected the accounts of all who where affected by it.
That is just one of the reasons I trade with Oanda,
Below is the message they posted.



Jason Primeau
OANDANIAN
Member # 305

Member Rated:
posted 11-25-2007 10:15
Hi,

There was erroneous EUR/USD price activity today between 12:54 and 12:59 EST.

All incorrectly executed stop losses, limit orders, take profits, market orders and margin calls will be reversed as soon as possible.

We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.

Jay,
--
OANDA Corporation
Posts: 389 | From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged |
Same Whore .... Different Dress
i know this is an old thread but the odd that someone who is quite frustated and need some consolation is high so i will give my opinion on this issue

so there might be two possible definitions of stop hunt

in negative term stop hunt means that your brokers will moved the price to touch all of the traders stop loss order and then let the price move in normal way afterward

there is one way to do this, i.e the brokers need to have a very large capital to move the price to the targeted stop loss order price, this is highly unlikely
another way is to create a false price feed into the software as if the price really touched the stop loss order

the latter is more doable and easier however based on my short experience this could not be true. I use three price feeds from different brokers and most of the time price are pretty much the same on all charts. however there are times where price gap was quite annoying usually near big news or surprising events, this happens about 1 or 2 times as I witnessed them on site

so it is not a regular activities of the brokers, so if a trader is being hit many times there is a big chance that the fact was not there due to the stop hunting activity by brokers but rather a predictable stop loss price which might be apparent to the big boys

in positive term stop hunt means natural logic of big traders while testing a certain price, resistance or support. this is logical since the price at which people put their stop loss order is also the same as where people will put their stop orders. and this is also the reason why sometime traders think they are a victim of stop loss hunting

let say that in a bull trend price is once touch 215.00 and retrace back
immediately, after this traders who thinks the price will continue downward will put a short order with stop loss order near the 215.00 area or higher
traders who go with the trend will put a buy order also at 215.00 or higher waiting for the big boys to pick them up to the 138 or 161 target

usually what will happen is that price will test the 215.00 level and retrace. at this time traders who put their stop loss at 215.00 will get stopped and depends on where the buyers put their stop losses, they will also get stopped

this is a common pattern near support or resistance level and will most likely hit you quite frequently if you keep a high ratio of risk/reward
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Here's an update. I just checked their site after going through this thread. Apparently they're toast.

Good job FF!!!

Quoting bapxyz
A long hard read but well worth the time. Thanks to everyone that participated.
It is 10/15/06 as I composes this and cfgtrader is still in business. I find that amazing. OK maybe just interesting.

Thanks again I learned a lot.
So, pip-wise, what's the biggest stop hunt/ spike you all have ever seen?
Need to diferenciate Stop Hunt, and Broker´s moves on news..
Stop hunt is a common practice of the big industry (banks and hedge funds) who systematically sweep the small guys..
This industry is meant to take your money, starting with the softwares, publicity, books...etc...which the big guys are eager for you and me to "try"...After all buy a book about oscillators, open an account and get rich right??
On news the broker has to level out orders just to protect his existance, otherwise he has to honour billions of buys and he´s on the other side...(the broker)..
Stop hunting is more common on popular signals, at bottoms, tops, or sideways markets, chopping away...Haven´t we all seen a market top, then stop out, only to return strongly?...
The shorter the time frame the worst...that makes the shortest time frames almost impossible...
Consider a 10 / 20 pip extra room for your stop on a dayly bar, that should keep you safe most of the time...., after all, youré shooting for a 200/500 pip gain...but 10/20 pips on a 5 min. chart?
Talk about spread costs?...stop hunting is much more serious...need to be considered and well studied for any system...the existence of your account depends on this....remeber who´s on the other side of the table (big boys, and they are for real)
Good luck..
PS and by the way stay away shortly before news..
  • Post #255
  • Quote
  • Edited at 5:29am Dec 12, 2011 5:27am | Edited at 5:29am
Hello,

I have been working for various brokers in the past, gaining lots and lots of inside knowledge of the inner kitchen. It has been some time now, i wanted to take all the industry's dirty bastards down. So this is day one. I will keep on posting videos, files, articles and what ever it takes to stop what is going on now - cheating, manipulating, lying and scamming people of their money. I will open my personal thread as soon as admins will manage to make me a normal user.

First i will present you video evidence of various settings, tweaks and plugins a broker can do with the so called trading platform "MetaTrader" backend platforms "Manager" and "Administrator". I will fulfill your requests. The videos should completely remove the doubts that have been up untill now. The majority of people are aware of what's happening but, they still for some reason keep on trading with Market Makers and especcialy MetaTrader.

So my first video shows how a broker can easily inject prices into the market to create spikes of various sizes and if needed hunt your stops.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyUlW...el_video_title
Please share your opinions and wishes on what you would like to see.
Hey there EcnJesus.

May I ask where you employed this type of plugin? How many brokers did you work with and what kind of work were you doing?
Quoting Wacky Canuck
Hey there EcnJesus.

May I ask where you employed this type of plugin? How many brokers did you work with and what kind of work were you doing?
This is no plugin, it's a standard feature of MetaTrader Manager, when it's assigned to you via MetaTrader Administrator. This feature is very basic and nowadays very rarely used. There more than enough different software providers which are officially offering various advanced plugins which will make brokers life much easier. I uploaded this video, since there has been lot's of talk with almost no evidence.

I have been working with quite a few brokerage companies in various positions - client support, sales, dealing desk. As for the companies, i will keep them secret, for obvious reasons.

More videos are coming. Place your requests if you want anything particular.
More videos are coming. Place your requests if you want anything particular.

A few requests-

1. How a broker does the requote to kill scalpers.
2. Evidence of injecting slippage against the client.
3. Freezing up the platform during news time.

Thanks for showing us a glimpse of what happens in vegas behind the screen...

Regards.
Quoting EcnJesus
This is no plugin, it's a standard feature of MetaTrader Manager, when it's assigned to you via MetaTrader Administrator. This feature is very basic and nowadays very rarely used. There more than enough different software providers which are officially offering various advanced plugins which will make brokers life much easier. I uploaded this video, since there has been lot's of talk with almost no evidence.

I have been working with quite a few brokerage companies in various positions - client support, sales, dealing desk. As for the companies,...

So you are basically saying that metatrader exposes you to unfair broker? If not metatrader then which platform would you recommend traders use? What is the safest in these regards?

P.S. I'm sure it will be quite hard to find evidence that would prove this point 100%. We are not talking about bucket-shops here.
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I will open my personal thread as soon as admins will manage to make me a normal user.
Sounds terrible. Please tell when your thread's up. Do you suggest most brokers do this or...?
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