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Just bought trading in the zone by Mark Douglas

  • #41
  • Mar 2, 2009 7:55am Mar 2, 2009 7:55am
Quoting Dopey
...getting the baggage out of your way so you can make money. It doesn't matter if it's greed, fear, anger, etc, it's an emotional impediment that needs to be dealt with.

If one doesn't need any psychological help, then great for them. But after living 50 years, I can count on one hand the people I've met that fit that description.
With all due respect, I disagree. Without a defined edge, no amount of headwork will help. It's like trying beat the casino at roulette, it just won't happen no matter what.

Getting baggage out of your way doesn't matter if the odds are not in your favor to begin with. And if you can't identify your edge, then you are in real trouble.

Now if one does have an edge and is not making money when he should be then I do agree with your statements.
  • #42
  • Mar 2, 2009 8:03am Mar 2, 2009 8:03am
Hi,

I don't want to answer for Dopey, but I believe his supposition is that despite people in the market having an edge, they are still liable to fail (on occasions) because of their mental state (resulting from baggage)

regards
daytrading
Enter Signature
  • #43
  • Mar 2, 2009 8:06am Mar 2, 2009 8:06am
Quoting peppermint
With all due respect, I disagree. Without a defined edge, no amount of headwork will help. It's like trying beat the casino at roulette, it just won't happen no matter what.

Getting baggage out of your way doesn't matter if the odds are not in your favor to begin with. And if you can't identify your edge, then you are in real trouble.

Now if one does have an edge and is not making money when he should be then I do agree with your statements.
Im sure Dopey agrees

Edge + good mind = Success
Edge + bad mind = failure
No Edge + bad mind = failure
No Edge + good mind = failure

I actually think it is impossible to have an edge and fail on one hand though. An edge requires the trader to do everything needed to exploit it correctly, if they let losses run, then they are not following their rules and therefore do not have an edge, because they loose in the long run.
I come to this conclusion because an edge is not a single thing, its a combination of parimiters put together that make a possitive expectancy. If a TP level/signal, Exit, entry are not taken exactly as proven profitable, then you are not exploiting your edge.

Does that make sense?lol. Sometimes its hard for me to convey exactly what im trying to get out.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #44
  • Mar 2, 2009 10:52am Mar 2, 2009 10:52am
Yes, my point was that even with an edge, one can fail through their behavior. After an all, an edge is simply something you've defined as having a higher probability of succeeding than of failing. You still have to execute. Similar to having a the better plan of battle but failing to execute it properly. The same can be said of many things in life.

Leon summed it up nicely...good edge and good mind are required to succeed in this business.
  • #45
  • Mar 2, 2009 11:55am Mar 2, 2009 11:55am
I've read "Trading in the Zone" and then got "Disciplined Trader". I think Disciplined is better and should be read first (probably does not matter, but that is the way I wish I had done it). I'm reading "Trade your way to Financial Freedom" right now and I like Van K. Tharp style better than Douglas.

Regardless, both have something to teach, but if you don't care for Douglas too much, you might like Van K. Tharp. Both are worth the time and effort
Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. ~ Jim Rohn
  • #46
  • Mar 2, 2009 1:01pm Mar 2, 2009 1:01pm
Quoting LasVahGoose
I think Disciplined is better
I agree.
  • #47
  • Edited 5:39pm Mar 2, 2009 5:22pm | Edited 5:39pm
I'd have to agree with Dopey and similar. Why one trades can get messy. Here's a breakdown of a few of my losing trades, which I realized I was doing only after lots of pondering :

You have doubts about your edge or nontrading problems that work on the inside of you. That puts in jeopardy your entire ability to make anything. You feel you have to trade to get better at trading. Then, emotional catharsis is more satisfying than extra cash.
Trading, if one has played with live charts long enough, is at times simple, even semiconsciously so: Connect the dots and push a few buttons. Bingo, demo money.
Atop this, work thru your problem, semi/unconsciously (with example emotion, direction, emphasis of reason) : I'm afraid the time's price / my (non)trading problem will go too high, against the likely trade; also, I want the same, for other reasons, to drop low, to the base I understand, which the trade also depends on.
Of course, a trading decision is more complex than this, and you get stuck with a trade on too simple a reason to do it.
Except, when you lose, or sometimes break even or win, you get a thrill: You get the ah-ha! jolt in your brain that helps you solve the (non)trading problem to a degree, simply because trading ties in comparing different opinions in a simple way with an emotional necessity the live chart encourages. Your drive to improve your trading can even doom the trade (ergo demo'ing, to accept your method) in an addictive, vicious cycle of several trades.
  • #48
  • Nov 2, 2011 3:06am Nov 2, 2011 3:06am
I need help to translate from English to Russian text from this book.
Quote
At the most fundamental level, the market is simply a series of up and down tics that form patterns. Technical analysis defines these patterns
as edges. Any particular pattern defined as an edge is simply an
indication that there is a higher probability that the market will move
in one direction over the other.
What means edge?
  • #49
  • Jan 6, 2012 4:45am Jan 6, 2012 4:45am
Quoting loa1452
Am I the only one that doesn't like this book?



1)Obviously
2)When do I ever know what is going to happen next?
3)Doesn't actually make sense.
4)Ok..
5)Wow, thanks for that golden information. Whats the point?

It has a solid message, but why write with such fluff? Does this not bother anyone?
I think he says that what he says is obvious but can be easily forgotten. He is trying to teach a mental approach to trading and not give you information. I would just ask you a question. Have you ever traded on demo? Have you traded real? Did you ever wonder why demo was so much easier? The idea of the book is to turn your real trading to be like it is on demo.
  • #50
  • Jan 6, 2012 5:02am Jan 6, 2012 5:02am
Quoting Leonlorenzo
The term 'edge' is open to personal interpretation.
I think the book's definition of edge is purely speaking of a profitable way of trading. The book is for someone that knows how to trade but something keeps him from not trading in that way.
  • #51
  • Jun 6, 2012 1:09pm Jun 6, 2012 1:09pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Im sure Dopey agrees

Edge + good mind = Success
Edge + bad mind = failure
No Edge + bad mind = failure
No Edge + good mind = failure

I'm currently reading through Trading in the Zone and would say that the book becomes useful only after you experience the scenarios that Douglas mentions in there. No pain, no gain...if you know what I mean.

Not completely through it yet but what's going through my mind right now is that if you already have an "edge" including good money management, can a "good mind" simply be replaced with a bot or EA for success?
  • #52
  • Aug 15, 2013 9:03am Aug 15, 2013 9:03am
I bought the audio version of the book, and completed it yesterday. Here is my take :

1) The book is 20% material and 80% filler material (Like most of the books)

2) the Book gets really boring in the middle.

3) The 20% material is excellent, Its mostly about trading attitude and approach towards trading, realizing losses and all in all having the Balls to trade.

4) Some big names here in FF have this book in their favorites. and they recommend this book.
  • #53
  • Last Post: Oct 15, 2015 6:57am Oct 15, 2015 6:57am
I got a lot out of the book. After reading it I turned the platform off for a week and just reflected on some points made particularly about the "fight" between the left brain and right brain, avoidance of pain, etc..

Does he seem to expound needlessly on some things? Sure does. My opinion is he does this to get you expounding on particular areas of your edge and mental mechanics.
"Holy Grail" exists - accepting where is the first step.
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