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Attachments: MT4 moves to ECN (2 unique brokers)
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MT4 moves to ECN (2 unique brokers)

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited Jun 13, 2009 12:19pm Feb 27, 2009 12:55am | Edited Jun 13, 2009 12:19pm
Hi folks,

I heard that MBTrading are moving into an MT4 platform that offers ECN based spreads. My broker GoMarkets is presently converting from MT4 fixed spreads to MT4 ECN.

For those that have used ECN and fixed spreads,
What are the benefits of being ECN?
How does ECN affect your trading?
How can you determine transparency in the market with ECN quotes?
Does anyone know of MT4 brokers other than GoMarkets and MBTrading moving into ECN?

Any comments would be much appreciated.


Concerned about the transparency of my broker as this email was sent on Friday 27th.

"In the coming days and weeks you will see changes with FX coming through the MetaTrader4 platform. The biggest change will be in the price feed. As you are aware we offer fixed pricing which does not fluctuate throughout the day. Whilst this can give transparency in the pricing it can mean clients do not always get the best prices on offer.
We are in the final stages of implementing a new ECN-style price feed coming through from a combination of 70 banks. This will mean that clients get the absolute best bid/ask prices coming from the interbank market. During liquid times spreads can get as low as 1-pip on major pairs, and if spreads widen it can be a signal to a client that the conditions for trading are not favourable. As an indication of spreads, many majors including GBPUSD, EURUSD, EURGBP and AUDUSD can offer spreads as low as 1-2 pips, even during the Asian session.

Offering the accurate interbank market prices means it is easier for us to hedge our positions. As part of this we will be able to accept ALL EXPERT ADVISORS including FAPTurbo. We will send an email to all clients as soon as this is fully implemented.

If you have any questions about the above please do not hesitate to contact us."

UPDATE: MT4 brokers that are ECN are ATCBrokers, and MBTrading (not yet released).
www.GoMarketsaus.com are not ECN, but are ECN-styled, which I have now highlighted above.
This means that they are a retail market maker, but I have found that their spreads are normally lower than fixed spread broker buddies. Yes they do have spreads like the above, but are almost never 1-2 pips in the Asian session.
  • #2
  • Feb 27, 2009 10:21am Feb 27, 2009 10:21am
you could just use mt4 demo from several different sources for charting & then just trade thru mb's navigator platform.
  • #3
  • Feb 27, 2009 10:33am Feb 27, 2009 10:33am
Quoting aquaart
Hi folks,

I heard that MBTrading are moving into an MT4 platform that offers ECN based spreads. My broker GoMarkets is presently converting from MT4 fixed spreads to MT4 ECN.

For those that have used ECN and fixed spreads,
What are the benefits of being ECN?
How does ECN affect your trading?
How can you determine transparency in the market with ECN quotes?
[font=&quot]Does anyone know of MT4 brokers other than GoMarkets...

Speaking from a broker that currently has a true MT4 ECN, FapTurbo would not work on the system. Sorry to say. Just because they are going to offer you a variable price feed does not mean they won't continue to run risk against their clients...
  • #4
  • Feb 27, 2009 4:59pm Feb 27, 2009 4:59pm
Quoting ForexSean
Speaking from a broker that currently has a true MT4 ECN, FapTurbo would not work on the system. Sorry to say. Just because they are going to offer you a variable price feed does not mean they won't continue to run risk against their clients...
Hey ForexSean,
Thanks for your reply... ...you would obviously know of other brokers including your own that are ECN, are you MT4 as well.
  • #5
  • Feb 27, 2009 5:03pm Feb 27, 2009 5:03pm
Quoting aquaart

How can you determine transparency in the market with ECN quotes?
I think you meant to ask, how can you determine transparency in the market with dealing desk quotes? ECNs are the epitome of market transparency.
  • #6
  • Feb 27, 2009 8:57pm Feb 27, 2009 8:57pm
Quoting Trader KGB
I think you meant to ask, how can you determine transparency in the market with dealing desk quotes? ECNs are the epitome of market transparency.
Just to clarify what I mean...

With fixed spreads you know the cost upfront before you trade (which has not been the case in recent markets). That is what I would normally mean by transparency (you know what you're getting and you get it).

With ECN's I have noticed that their are true ECN's, which MBTrading appear to be, and they offer very tight spreads with a commission, and while other "ECN" brokers will have significantly wider spreads.

Continually wider spreads can really only happen for 3 reasons,
(1) the ECN broker has very few banks (institutions) offering prices, (which is stupid if you truly are ECN) OR
(2) the broker is also building a spread into their prices (slightly higher ask and lower bid prices) OR
(3) the broker is using a 2 / 4 decimal point pricing system (instead of 3/5) and rounding outwards the quotes that they are being fed from the banks.

So my question might be best put, is there anyway that you can be sure that the middle point (2) is not happening?
  • #7
  • Feb 27, 2009 8:59pm Feb 27, 2009 8:59pm
The attached file should provide you some of the info. you are looking for - it was written by TheRumpledOne, from his web-site at kreslik.com
Attached File(s)
File Type: txt ECN.txt   3 KB | 1,504 downloads
  • #8
  • Feb 27, 2009 9:10pm Feb 27, 2009 9:10pm
Quoting eagle4x
The attached file should provide you some of the info. you are looking for - it was written by TheRumpledOne, from his web-site at kreslik.com

Thank you eagle4x



All my answers that I needed are in that text file.

Me has ayudado mucho.You have helped me very much.
  • #9
  • Mar 2, 2009 7:49am Mar 2, 2009 7:49am
Quoting aquaart
Hey ForexSean,
Thanks for your reply... ...you would obviously know of other brokers including your own that are ECN, are you MT4 as well.

Yes.
  • #10
  • Mar 3, 2009 6:07am Mar 3, 2009 6:07am
Will be interesting to see Gomarkets after the change, I am a bit suspicious- they do state it is an "ECN Style" feed not actually ECN. Further confirming it is not actually ECN is they don't appear to going to charge commissions....unless that is a surprise yet to come . Personally I would rather see them stay fixed spread for trading major pairs the spread is 3 pips mostly and it really does stay fixed throughout the whole day- There is no telling how high the ECN Style feed will now fluctuate- Even though they assure it is good. Will see, hope they are right.
  • #11
  • Mar 3, 2009 6:13am Mar 3, 2009 6:13am
Quoting viperzz
Will be interesting to see Gomarkets after the change, I am a bit suspicious- they do state it is an "ECN Style" feed not actually ECN. Further confirming it is not actually ECN is they don't appear to going to charge commissions....unless that is a surprise yet to come . Personally I would rather see them stay fixed spread for trading major pairs the spread is 3 pips mostly and it really does stay fixed throughout the whole day- There is no telling how high the ECN Style feed will now fluctuate- Even though they assure it is good. Will see, hope...
Hey Viperzz,
At GoMarkets, have you been getting 3 pips on AUDUSD, NZDUSD, USDCAD or just on the major majors.
  • #12
  • Mar 4, 2009 6:14pm Mar 4, 2009 6:14pm
aquaart,
No Just 3 pips on the majors or "major majors" I was referring to and EURUSD has been back to 2 pips for about a week now.
The others-
AUDUSD is 4, NZDUSD is 5, USDCAD is 6.

But if you just want to trade- EURUSD, USDCHF, GBPUSD, USDJPY I think the fixed 2/3 pip is good.
  • #13
  • Apr 5, 2009 7:29pm Apr 5, 2009 7:29pm
Quoting viperzz
Will be interesting to see Gomarkets after the change, I am a bit suspicious- they do state it is an "ECN Style" feed not actually ECN. Further confirming it is not actually ECN is they don't appear to going to charge commissions....unless that is a surprise yet to come . Personally I would rather see them stay fixed spread for trading major pairs the spread is 3 pips mostly and it really does stay fixed throughout the whole day- There is no telling how high the ECN Style feed will now fluctuate- Even though they assure it is good. Will see, hope...

Go Markets now has their ECN styled feed. It is definitely ECN styled and during todays Asian session I could see:

the GBPJPY vary from 3 pip to 20 pip. It was nearly always between 6 and 10 pip.
the EURUSD varied from 1 pip to 6 pip, whilst I was watching it.

As it is a 2 / 4 decimal point price feed, it would mean that GoMarkets are rounding out their prices to catch the fractional pip differences as profits. However GoMarkets do not charge a commission.

As most ECN price feeds also have about a dollar amount of about 1 pip per round trip commission, this means that GoMarkets commission would vary from 0.1 pip to 2 pip depending on the exact 3/5 digit prices they are getting quoted from the banks.

However their ECN styled demo platforms are not ready yet.
  • #14
  • Apr 5, 2009 10:48pm Apr 5, 2009 10:48pm
Quoting aquaart
Go Markets now has their ECN styled feed. It is definitely ECN styled and during todays Asian session I could see:
the GBPJPY vary from 3 pip to 20 pip. It was nearly always between 6 and 10 pip.
the EURUSD varied from 1 pip to 6 pip, whilst I was watching it.
As it is a 2 / 4 decimal point price feed, it would mean that GoMarkets are rounding out their prices to catch the fractional pip differences as profits. However GoMarkets do not charge a commission.
As most ECN price feeds also have about a dollar amount of about 1 pip...
ECN 'Styled' whatever that means doesn't mean it is an ECN though.
Why would anybody trade with a broker whose spread on GBPJPY varies between 3 to 20 pips? - way too wide at 20 pips during very quiet times.
If GoMarkets don't charge a commission then they are earning from the spreads, again not an ECN model.
  • #15
  • Apr 5, 2009 11:04pm Apr 5, 2009 11:04pm
Quoting PipStar
ECN 'Styled' whatever that means doesn't mean it is an ECN though.
Why would anybody trade with a broker whose spread on GBPJPY varies between 3 to 20 pips? - way too wide at 20 pips during very quiet times.
If GoMarkets don't charge a commission then they are earning from the spreads, again not an ECN model.
This was during the asian session. I only saw 20 pip once and I was watching it like a hawke for about an hour. It was most common for it to be 8 pip.

Any ECN using 2/4 decimal place feed is not passing on the exact data that banks / institutions are feeding them. Because banks / inst use 3/5. Hence, as I said these guys must be rounding out their feeds to catch between a 0 and 2 pip commission for each pair.

However, unlike other ECN styled brokers (MBTrading and ATC Brokers) they do not charge any $ based commission. In the end it works out that GoMarkets are more expensive by about 2 pip per trade during the asian session.

I am waiting for the London NY sessions, to see whether prices regularly get down to 1 pip as promised in previous emails.

A quote from a GoMarkets previous email
"As an indication of spreads, many majors including GBPUSD, EURUSD, EURGBP and AUDUSD can offer spreads as low as 1-2 pips, even during the Asian session."
  • #16
  • Apr 5, 2009 11:37pm Apr 5, 2009 11:37pm
Oh Yeah I'm seeing Gomarkets new live spreads- It's nuts!

I've just had it on a few minutes
Max spreads I've seen- 2:25pm AEST-
EURUSD 0-8
GBPUSD 1-12
EURCHF 1-10
EURGBP 0-9
GBPJPY 1-15
USDJPY 0-8
EURJPY 1-14!

The list goes on- they are all like this and it's not like they just go up once in a while, I have seen this in minutes a lot of the time they are sitting mid way to the higher end of those ranges above, seldom stays on much lower than what they used to have fixed- what a shame.

Comparatively across the same time span MBT real ECN demo
EURGBP max is a measly 2.3 pips
USDJPY 1.5 max!
GBPJPY max 5.0
Plus half pip spread of course- still leaves it for dust.
  • #17
  • Edited 1:42am Apr 6, 2009 12:41am | Edited 1:42am
As the asian session went on, the spreads got significantly worse.

The spreads listed above, are correct but I would like to re-emphasis that the spreads were more likely to be at the higher end of the above than the lower end.

Wait for the London and NY sessions to see if gets any better.

And yes I watched MBTrading and ATCBrokers. MBTrading and ATCBrokers spreads were significantly better (although they do charge commission). Including $$$ commission MBTrading and ATCBrokers charge, MBTrading and ATCBrokers were still significantly better than Go Markets.


This is what I saw:
Max spreads I've seen- 2:25pm AEST-
EURUSD 0-6
GBPUSD 1-12
EURCHF 1-9
EURGBP 0-8
GBPJPY 3-20
USDJPY 0-8
EURJPY 1-13
AUDUSD 1-8
  • #18
  • Apr 6, 2009 2:29am Apr 6, 2009 2:29am
To me there live feed is untradeable,its just goes to sleep every now and then,support desk says IT issues !!
  • #19
  • Edited Apr 7, 2009 1:19am Apr 6, 2009 7:45am | Edited Apr 7, 2009 1:19am
Quoting oztrader
To me there live feed is untradeable,its just goes to sleep every now and then,support desk says IT issues !!
Yep, I can't even log into my account...

So i don't know where my trades are,

Don't know where the price is on their system. But they somehow suggest that you can open and close the trades via phone. But where are the trades in relation to the price and what are my indicators telling me?

At the moment they have wiped all my trades and only left me with my balance.

hmmmmmmmmmm

Nor do I know what my equity is etc...
  • #20
  • Apr 7, 2009 4:32am Apr 7, 2009 4:32am
24 hours later and still no feed. I think we play in cyberspace fun palour.Its a shame real money is at stake.
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