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All strategies work

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  • First Post: Edited 3:47pm Feb 22, 2009 7:47am | Edited 3:47pm
  •  Hertzvanrent
  • | Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Member | 44 Posts
As a confused rookie that is my conclusion after reading X million posts and opinions

Either that or all strategies fail. Or will fail at some point (or even work at some point).

On these forums, and on other websites, and in books, there are innumerable strategies and their proponents seem to be making money from them, and sometimes have been for some time. And for each of those strategies there are any number of fans who say that it is has stopped them bleeding and that now they are using X method instead of Y method it has finally all come together. Then on another thread people are using Y method instead of X and it has finally stopped them bleeding etc. etc.

Now any number of experts are going to say 'find out what works for you'. Now before you pour scorn and abuse on my head for asking this bear in mind I know of my ignorance and I'm on a quest for learning. But my simple question is this; why?

Why can't I now go to the strategies forum, copy a strategy so my entry and exit points are based on the same rules, then why would I fail but someone else succeed? What's the variable, the x-factor that means one individual fails with it but another one succeed?

And that leads me to another thing; how do you find what works for you? If you demo a strategy how do you know whether it is/isn't working? If you have a string of losses how do you know whether is because a) it's a bad strategy b) you are doing it wrong or c) you've just happened to get the fuzzy end of the law of large numbers and everything is actually A-OK? (I suppose worse than that if you get lucky on demo then find out it is bad/not for you in reality.)


Hertz
  • Post #2
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  • Feb 22, 2009 9:01am Feb 22, 2009 9:01am
  •  BBPI_fxtrader
  • | Joined Jun 2007 | Status: full-time trader wannabe | 975 Posts
Quoting Hertzvanrent
Disliked
.
Why can't I now go to the strategies forum, copy a strategy so my entry and exit points are based on the same rules, then why would I fail but someone else succeed? What's the variable, the x-factor that means one individual fails with it but another one succeed?
Hertz
Ignored

the trader's mind: psychology and the perception of price.
psychology influences your emotions, your fear and greed, you need to overcome your emotions if you want to succeed in this business.

regarding perception of price: you see X trading at $20. for some that means a bargain and buy, for some that could be pretty expensive and don't buy or sell...
Twitter: @forexpokerpro
 
 
  • Post #3
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  • Feb 22, 2009 9:08am Feb 22, 2009 9:08am
  •  FOREXflash
  • | Commercial Member | Joined Sep 2008 | 957 Posts
Quoting Hertzvanrent
Disliked
Now any number of experts are going to say 'find out what works for you'. Now before you pour scorn and abuse on my head for asking this bear in mind I know of my ignorance and I'm on a quest for learning. But my simple question is this; why?
Hertz
Ignored
Dont be a follower. Dont rely upon other people or their systems!
Remember that more than 90% of them LOSE, so why will you blindly
folow a system from some amateur who doesn have a clue how to trade!???
forexflash
 
 
  • Post #4
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  • Feb 22, 2009 9:39am Feb 22, 2009 9:39am
  •  Hertzvanrent
  • | Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Member | 44 Posts
Quoting FOREXflash
Disliked
Dont be a follower. Dont rely upon other people or their systems!
Ignored
A question then; does your system work?
 
 
  • Post #5
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  • Feb 22, 2009 9:43am Feb 22, 2009 9:43am
  •  FOREXflash
  • | Commercial Member | Joined Sep 2008 | 957 Posts
Im not trading it with real money jet, so Im not privileged to
say that it is profitable, altrough im pretty sure that it will make
money someday when I develop it completely!


The less indicators you use, the bigger your chances!!!
forexflash
 
 
  • Post #6
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  • Feb 22, 2009 10:01am Feb 22, 2009 10:01am
  •  popisdead
  • | Membership Revoked | Joined Dec 2007 | 539 Posts
Patience is the KEY!

pop
{Promotion Removed}
 
 
  • Post #7
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  • Feb 22, 2009 10:07am Feb 22, 2009 10:07am
  •  Hertzvanrent
  • | Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Member | 44 Posts
Quoting FOREXflash
Disliked
Im not trading it with real money jet, so Im not privileged to
say that it is profitable, although i'm pretty sure that it will make
money someday when I develop it completely!
Ignored
Let's say your strategy works, and I feel it's proven to me; why don't I use yours?

I should say that I'm talking about strategies that are tested by time and have been extensively tested and peer reviewed on here. I've read so often that folk's (group A) have given up one way of trading for another and it's suddenly come together for them, then you read of group B who have given up trading the way group A have just started, to trade in the way that group A failed so miserably at, but group B have suddenly hit success.

eg ShakesFX journal and Jacko's House of Pleasure and Pain. Both of these appear to be successful but are completely different. On one thread are people who swear that it works for them now that they've given up something similar to the other, but on the other are people who say vice versa.
 
 
  • Post #8
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  • Feb 22, 2009 10:40am Feb 22, 2009 10:40am
  •  Hertzvanrent
  • | Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Member | 44 Posts
Quoting BBPI_fxtrader
Disliked
the trader's mind: psychology and the perception of price.
Ignored
So the best strategy (from all the strategies that would work) is the one that you can handle best psychologically?

Perception 'an interpretation or impression based on one's understanding of something' according to the OED. So learn, learn, learn and learn some more then keep watching the market and get a feel for it what it does.
 
 
  • Post #9
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  • Feb 22, 2009 11:18am Feb 22, 2009 11:18am
  •  ianf0ster
  • | Commercial Member | Joined Jan 2007 | 1,458 Posts
Quoting Hertzvanrent
Disliked
So the best strategy (from all the strategies that would work) is the one that you can handle best psychologically?

Perception 'an interpretation or impression based on one's understanding of something' according to the OED. So learn, learn, learn and learn some more then keep watching the market and get a feel for it what it does.
Ignored
Yes, the strategy must suit you. Your personal;ity, your time available and your available capital.

For an example see my little thread : http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=89222
 
 
  • Post #10
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  • Feb 22, 2009 11:26am Feb 22, 2009 11:26am
  •  Scotty B
  • Joined Dec 2007 | Status: Informed | 1,640 Posts
I think that trading successfully is all about knowledge. You need to understand the method that you are trading and know how it ticks. Most people come into trading thinking that it's gonna be easy. Often times the search for a perfect trading system is really a veiled search for something easy. We all wish there was a magic bullet, not just in forex but in everything we do. Working hard in forex means studying hard. Studying hard and being open to new ideas is the 'holy grail.'
 
 
  • Post #11
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  • Feb 22, 2009 11:38am Feb 22, 2009 11:38am
  •  Hertzvanrent
  • | Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Member | 44 Posts
Quoting ianf0ster
Disliked
Yes, the strategy must suit you. Your personal;ity, your time available and your available capital.

For an example see my little thread : http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=89222
Ignored
Thanks for the link, somehow I missed this one.

It's refreshing to hear people accepting other strategies.

There is a lot of disagreement on here and whilst I understand that people need to doing something they feel is right (for them) quite why it's important for other's idea's to be wrong is beyond me.
 
 
  • Post #12
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  • Feb 22, 2009 1:08pm Feb 22, 2009 1:08pm
  •  JR97
  • Joined Apr 2004 | Status: #slack pricetimeforecast | 1,934 Posts
There's a million ways to make money in the markets. Hardest part is finding one.

But seriously, any system can make money. You can flip a coin and make money if you adhere to sound MM. And that is the key to the mint. Not a bunch of wavy lines.

And yes.. people can trade the exact same system entering and exiting on the excact same signal with the same stop loss and take profit and one can win and one can lose over time because of MM. Dude #1 bets 2 lots per trade. Dude #2 bets .5 lots per trade but averages in as the move is underway. Dude #1 takes a loss on a bad signal and he's out 2 lots. Dude #2 takes a loss on a bad signal and he's out .5 pips. On a good move, Dude #1 makes good money. Dude #2 doesn't make as much as Dude #1, but his risk is a helluva lot smaller up front. Actually, Dude #2 could catch and surpass depending on how aggressive his add-on strategy is.

Can you see how Dude #2 is going to kick Dude #1's a$$ over time? Dude #2's winners will dwarf his losers. Dude #1 will be more dependent on the accuracy of the system. So if the system starts sucking, Dude #1 is toast. Dude #2 can trade near 50% accuracy and still make astronomical returns especially if he's aggressive once the move is under way and he's betting with house money.

And none of this accounts for actual execution, discipline, etc. I've seen it happen over and over again when I've worked with people showing them my methods. I'll tell a few exactly where and when to make a trade and where to start looking for an exit and it's guaranteed that someone of them will lose money because they'll risk too much up front and get out at the slightest hint of trouble or they'll "interpret" the signal and get in way too earlly or too late, take profits way early, etc.
 
 
  • Post #13
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  • Feb 22, 2009 1:43pm Feb 22, 2009 1:43pm
  •  Craig
  • Joined Feb 2006 | Status: Blah blah blah | 1,410 Posts
Quoting JR97
Disliked
But seriously, any system can make money. You can flip a coin and make money if you adhere to sound MM. And that is the key to the mint. Not a bunch of wavy lines.
Ignored
Groan...the old standard is wheeled out once again, can you actually back up this claim with evidence?
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
 
 
  • Post #14
  • Quote
  • Feb 22, 2009 2:12pm Feb 22, 2009 2:12pm
  •  Hertzvanrent
  • | Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Member | 44 Posts
This is what I'm talking about! Both Craig and JR97 claim to have been trading for over 3 years, so presumably are earning money from it and you both have a reasonable number of people who vouch for you, yet at least one of you claims the other's strategy is fundamentally wrong.

Craig, are you saying that if you used JR's strategy you would lose money? If it doesn't work then is JR lying, and if so, why is he lying?

I'm not accusing anybody of anything I just want to get to the bottom of things so I can make some money at some point.
 
 
  • Post #15
  • Quote
  • Feb 22, 2009 2:22pm Feb 22, 2009 2:22pm
  •  FOREXflash
  • | Commercial Member | Joined Sep 2008 | 957 Posts
If MM can make money by itself, what is purpose of TA!???
forexflash
 
 
  • Post #16
  • Quote
  • Feb 22, 2009 2:24pm Feb 22, 2009 2:24pm
  •  Razzle
  • Joined Dec 2005 | Status: Member | 336 Posts
Quoting Craig
Disliked
Groan...the old standard is wheeled out once again, can you actually back up this claim with evidence?
Ignored
I have to agree, no amount of "money management" can ever compensate for a method with a negative expectancy. He'll probably cite that charlatan Van Tharp with his ATR based exits as evidence.
 
 
  • Post #17
  • Quote
  • Feb 22, 2009 2:25pm Feb 22, 2009 2:25pm
  •  lodol2
  • | Joined Aug 2007 | Status: Member | 101 Posts
hi Hertzvanrent


very intelligent your questioning.....its all about this...very nice i like this kind of approuch..

all the best for you and dont loose this intelligent kind of asking questions

there is a sying which says you should only ask if you dont know.....

so your way is really open.................... very seldom

regards lodol
 
 
  • Post #18
  • Quote
  • Feb 22, 2009 2:26pm Feb 22, 2009 2:26pm
  •  Craig
  • Joined Feb 2006 | Status: Blah blah blah | 1,410 Posts
I'm not saying he is lying, what I am saying is that I have never seen the 'pulling profits from random entries' technique to trading successfully applied, however I have seen it unsuccessfully applied many times. However, I don't know everything so I'm willing to change my position based on objective evidence.

This actually goes right to the center of the problem of asking such a question on a public forum, many people are going to weight in with all sorts of opinion disguised as fact, how you go about separating the fact from fiction is something I can't really answer. I have been contemplating starting a trader P/L thread where people can post daily results so we can all see who is actually consistently pulling profit, since that is after all the bottom line in the end.
The breaking of a wave cannot explain the whole sea.
 
 
  • Post #19
  • Quote
  • Feb 22, 2009 2:27pm Feb 22, 2009 2:27pm
  •  Hertzvanrent
  • | Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Member | 44 Posts
Quoting FOREXflash
Disliked
If MM can make money by itself, what is purpose of TA!???
Ignored

So you think JR97 doesn't earn any money from Forex?
 
 
  • Post #20
  • Quote
  • Feb 22, 2009 2:30pm Feb 22, 2009 2:30pm
  •  Hertzvanrent
  • | Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Member | 44 Posts
Quoting Craig
Disliked
I have been contemplating starting a trader P/L thread where people can post daily results so we can all see who is actually consistently pulling profit, since that is after all the bottom line in the end.
Ignored
This makes perfect sense.

I'm not knock you or anyone else BTW just trying to make sense of things.
 
 
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