Do brokers piggyback on successful traders? | Forex Factory

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Do brokers piggyback on successful traders?

  • #1
  • First Post: Mar 22, 2007 8:25am Mar 22, 2007 8:25am
I posted this idea on Oanda and was immediately rated as a 1 * poster. I guess that's not suprising as the idea does sound very tin foil.

However, everytime I go to invest some time in tweaking my trading system, this concerns me more and more. And why not?

The more successful my trading system is, the more likely it seems that a broker will start to follow my trades. What's the point in developing a very successful system?

One approach, of course, is to do trades on one system and then hedging trades on another. However, this seems like a lot of work for something might not be a problem.

How do others deal with this? Are others concerned about their broker?

Cheers,

blaze.
  • #2
  • Mar 22, 2007 11:32pm Mar 22, 2007 11:32pm
Seriously, why rate this as one *? It must be a broker that's doing it, as this was merely a question which readily acknowledged the paranoid flavor of this thread.

But I ask again, hopefully someone sincere and knowledgeable will respond - If you were a broker, and you saw someone come across your system banking large amounts with trades on the forex, why wouldn't you be making similar trades?

It's simple statistical math. X% of the traders know what they're doing and are profiting. Make trades similar to the X%

I see nothing in the broker contracts that says they are not doing this, so why wouldn't they? It's impossible to detect on the trader's end, except that your once profitable trading system doesn't seem as profitable as it used to be.
  • #3
  • Mar 22, 2007 11:41pm Mar 22, 2007 11:41pm
Quoting blazespinnaker
Seriously, why rate this as one *? I can only imagine there must be brokers out there who are doing this.

If you were a broker, and you saw someone come across your system banking large amounts with trades on the forex, why wouldn't you be making similar trades?

It's simple statistical math. X% of the traders know what they're doing and are profiting. Make trades similar to the X%

I see nothing in the broker contracts that says they are not doing this, so why wouldn't they? It's impossible to detect on the trader's end, except that your once profitable trading system doesn't seem as profitable as it used to be.
Yes it's true that some brokers do this. I asked my personal representative and he disclosed that they do shadow successful traders. This is normally done in large accounts and not with any below 25k. I got away without being watched because i hid in a mini account till I passed the 100k mark. I contacted the brokerage to make a change and bam they busted me. They noticed the huge gains and things were never quite the same. I still trade there but only in a mini.
  • #4
  • Mar 22, 2007 11:57pm Mar 22, 2007 11:57pm
This is why you need to build up and jump on a muti-bank platform where the broker can't see your orders
  • #5
  • Mar 23, 2007 12:09am Mar 23, 2007 12:09am
Quoting turbokaos
This is why you need to build up and jump on a muti-bank platform where the broker can't see your orders
I could care less if the broker see's my trade. If they want to piggyback on me fine.. if not then they can lose money. Up to them.
  • #6
  • Edited 1:10am Mar 23, 2007 12:30am | Edited 1:10am
Quoting Rolandlc33
I could care less if the broker see's my trade. If they want to piggyback on me fine.. if not then they can lose money. Up to them.
I wouldn't say they piggyback as in copy trades. This more where stop hunting comes into play.

example A) funny how I can watch my currenex platform move down 3 to 5 pips and at the same time a live retail platform move up 10 and I have even seen has high as 20 pips difference (during normal mkt conditions)

example B)
I can place same exact orders (all limit orders) on currenex and come out 300+ pips but w/ the same exact trades placed on a live retail platform end the month -100pip

Well that's just my live personal experience
  • #7
  • Mar 23, 2007 3:06am Mar 23, 2007 3:06am
Quoting Rolandlc33
I could care less if the broker see's my trade. If they want to piggyback on me fine.. if not then they can lose money. Up to them.
Well my trading system is based on back testing. It's bad enough I have to worry about my trades anonymously affecting the market, but if someone starts to copy my trades? Then my back testing becomes that much more worthless.
  • #8
  • Mar 23, 2007 9:07am Mar 23, 2007 9:07am
Quoting Rolandlc33
I could care less if the broker see's my trade. If they want to piggyback on me fine.. if not then they can lose money. Up to them.
I would agree with Roland on his opinion.

Let as assume we are winning, and they copied our position on a larger size against the banks. I personally would love this. Why? because now, instead of the broker dealing against me, they are now dealing with me...

Honestly, How much does a 80% win change system fetch in the market?
  • #9
  • Mar 23, 2007 9:52am Mar 23, 2007 9:52am
If you sell and they sell big guess where price is gonna go. I would be careful with stop-loss though. You could use a script so they don't know where exactly it lies...
  • #10
  • Mar 24, 2007 12:00am Mar 24, 2007 12:00am
Quoting Scientist
If you sell and they sell big guess where price is gonna go. I would be careful with stop-loss though. You could use a script so they don't know where exactly it lies...
Yup, but that screws up all my backtesting..
  • #11
  • Mar 24, 2007 12:03am Mar 24, 2007 12:03am
Quoting turbokaos
I wouldn't say they piggyback as in copy trades. This more where stop hunting comes into play.

example A) funny how I can watch my currenex platform move down 3 to 5 pips and at the same time a live retail platform move up 10 and I have even seen has high as 20 pips difference (during normal mkt conditions)

example B)
I can place same exact orders (all limit orders) on currenex and come out 300+ pips but w/ the same exact trades placed on a live retail platform end the month -100pip

Well that's just my live personal experience
This could be because you are trading within the microcosm of your particular broker. It's not just the local broker that is trading against you, it's all the other tiny retail traders.
  • #12
  • Last Post: Mar 24, 2007 11:11am Mar 24, 2007 11:11am
I dont see why you guys care so much if the broker follows your trades or not. You're making the money. Good for you.

BTW you could probably face the possible opposite of stop haunting in this case. Since you are trading with a retail broker and they can twist the price any way they like. They are not really interested in you losing then you could win a few extra trades if you do that well.
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