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  • #281
  • Jan 9, 2009 10:17am Jan 9, 2009 10:17am
Quoting tradeinstant

It's true what you're saying but it's also true that you can get a very complicated picture of the market if you rely too much on indicators.
I look on chart, but don't rely on indicators.. I think indicators astray me from the market..
  • #282
  • Jan 9, 2009 10:28am Jan 9, 2009 10:28am
Quoting eohater
You got an absolute brilliant entry on that trade, bravo. 20 pip better entry than me and mine was waiting for the confirmation of price action before entry.

Here, it goes back to the key, PRICE ACTION, the ma's add targets from there ie: TP, SL movements, absolute managing your trade.
Yup!!!....
Patience + Discipline - Greed = Success
  • #283
  • Jan 10, 2009 12:54am Jan 10, 2009 12:54am
Quoting tradeinstant
That's smart!!!
Good one!!

It's true what you're saying but it's also true that you can get a very complicated picture of the market if you rely too much on indicators.
I use some indicators but I prefer a simple strategy with a PA view.
If you want to trade current market conditions you have to apply techniq that outles those borders and thats where my oldschool ta analysis kick in. Keeping it simple is the way to roll. Good trades dont happen every day. Patience and in the meantime i would like to start meditating, as its all in our heads. My 2 cents.
  • #284
  • Jan 10, 2009 8:44am Jan 10, 2009 8:44am
Who are "The Boys" that you refer to that can influence a Trillion $ market to the point that they can move price 50 pips beyond a 78.6 Fib, just to take out us idiots??

Is this Area 51 stuff or for real ??
  • #285
  • Jan 10, 2009 9:11am Jan 10, 2009 9:11am
Quoting BrianG
Who are "The Boys" that you refer to that can influence a Trillion $ market to the point that they can move price 50 pips beyond a 78.6 Fib, just to take out us idiots??

Is this Area 51 stuff or for real ??
lol yeah, go on believing markets do not get manipulated.

partial: market makers, trading syndicates, big investment banks who are spot on. alltogether, the composite trader who is able to read the charts right.

they form a consensus of opinion and try to fool the herd in every way they can. all the losers feed few winners.

marking up market to get a better short entry whilst idiot money buys on rising prices is no problem with some decent amount of money, which is a common behaviour. the point is closing at such areas. typical example is s&p yesterdays at 912 area which was a decent and obvious short.

thats the difference between professionals and the herd. professionals only buy on dropping prices, since u only can spot strength on down bars.
depending on their ordersize, other market makers would see their buying and would mark price rapidly up against their buying. when we are trending up, this would let prices skyrocket up and the boys buying would get bad prices. when price is droping big orders do not hurt much except, that they hit market sideways or, if enough accumulated, turn the market around.

wide spread bars are often taken for big size boys to take profits.
  • #286
  • Jan 10, 2009 9:23am Jan 10, 2009 9:23am
all think that markets are manipulated , from the micro-lot trader to the chief trader of the largest bank, they feel like markets are manipulated in some way or the other and even worse ,someone is running after their stops!

there are super powers who are using the markets for pure commercial interest. but do u think they all come to trade at the same time and watching same levels to manipulate the market?

Public traders just like to trade every wiggle and waggle move of the markets and when they got hurt by the noise, they say ohhh markets are manipulated!. they went after my stop!
Enter Signature
  • #287
  • Jan 10, 2009 9:40am Jan 10, 2009 9:40am
Quoting CHFJunkie
all think that markets are manipulated , from the micro-lot trader to the chief trader of the largest bank, they feel like markets are manipulated in some way or the other and even worse ,someone is running after their stops!

there are super powers who are using the markets for pure commercial interest. but do u think they all come to trade at the same time and watching same levels to manipulate the market?

Public traders just like to trade every wiggle and waggle move of the markets and when they got hurt by the noise, they say ohhh markets...
sorry to disappoint you, but you have no clue about this topic.
it is nothing about feeling or thinking, it can be spotted o nthe charts if you are able to read charts & volume and do not rely on default retail indicator trading.

talking about the consensus of the composite trader, consisting of the above mentioned groups.

yes, stop hunting is a very profitable and beloved technique. in case you do not realize that you aren't trading in the real interbank market, but on the virtual gamefield of your broker mirroriring the interbank market behaviour.
if you are trading a real institutional acc at a prime brokerage, 500k+ -also providing liquidity to markets then yes, stop hunting is not one of your problems since you trade marginless.

public traders are somewhat meaningless. about 2% of the traded vol comes from all the small traders out there, going from 1 lot - 100 lot traders.
the rest you see are the big boys which matter which are also partial victim to manipulation if they rely on newsreleases and numbers, except rate cuts, to enter trades.
  • #288
  • Jan 10, 2009 9:47am Jan 10, 2009 9:47am
no disappointment , it's ok I'm opened to whatever ideas that can be presented

Quote
it is nothing about feeling or thinking, it can be spotted o nthe charts if you are able to read charts & volume and do not rely on default retail indicator trading.

I don't think charts move the markets , the opposite is true. we just have to look for the underlying forces that move the markets.

BTW, to my knowledge ,I think there is no volume in the forex markets. it's just tick indicators. I hope I'm right on this!
Enter Signature
  • #289
  • Jan 10, 2009 9:54am Jan 10, 2009 9:54am
Quoting CHFJunkie
no disappointment , it's ok I'm opened to whatever ideas that can be presented



I don't think charts move the markets , the opposite is true. we just have to look for the underlying forces that move the markets.

BTW, to my knowledge ,I think there is no volume in the forex markets. it's just tick indicators. I hope I'm right on this!

how can charts move the market??
charts just plot the movement of the market...

you are able to spot the supply and demand situation using charts and it is the only thing one should trust on when trading.

there is volume in forex, tick volume, measuring the price changes in a given period. esignal offers tick vol of over 300 contributors and it works pretty well. i trade discretionary only using price bars and volume histogram and i am too happy to have gotten rid of indicators a long time ago.

the underlying force of EVERY market move is (no) supply & (no) demand and not any number or news which tries to mislead.
  • #290
  • Jan 10, 2009 10:05am Jan 10, 2009 10:05am
Quoting Dr.Geppynius
how can charts move the market??
charts just plot the movement of the market...

you are able to spot the supply and demand situation using charts and it is the only thing one should trust on when trading.

there is volume in forex, tick volume, measuring the price changes in a given period. esignal offers tick vol of over 300 contributors and it works pretty well. i trade discretionary only using price bars and volume histogram and i am too happy to have gotten rid of indicators a long time ago.

the underlying force of EVERY market move is (no)...
To me, supply and demand is a fallacy!
about charts, yes you can use them to predict market movements .
but to me, they give incomplete picture. we miss alot of details when just trade from charts!

after all, everyone should stick to what's making him money in the markets.

BTW, I see u r a wyckoff trader

Regards
Enter Signature
  • #291
  • Jan 10, 2009 10:11am Jan 10, 2009 10:11am
Quoting CHFJunkie
To me, supply and demand is a fallacy!
about charts, yes you can use them to predict market movements .
but to me, they give incomplete picture. we miss alot of details when just trade from charts!

after all, everyone should stick to what's making him money in the markets.

BTW, I see u r a wyckoff trader

Regards
i do not want to be offending, but this pretty much is nonsense

how can charts be incomplete? if used with vol u see professional activity during a given period. what else do you need?

supply & demand fallacy? why do markets move then if not based on those principles? because of indicators which use values of the past to predict future human behaviour, or news or what? sorry, the only reason for moving markets is the presenece/absence of professional buying.

i do not try to convince you, stick to your system of course.

but the points above mentioned are just facts and nothing else.
  • #292
  • Jan 10, 2009 10:16am Jan 10, 2009 10:16am
Hey Geppy,

Is there a good place for me to learn more about your style of volume/bar trading? Does esignal charge alot for their services?
TIA
jaxbeach007
  • #293
  • Jan 10, 2009 10:18am Jan 10, 2009 10:18am
that's the point , professional buying.
but the question how can you quantify them??
by using charts and so called volume?? I don't think so.

if you want real volume , trade CME currency futures and not the FX market.

have you tried to test the conventional wisdom about volume and price patterns??

or you just read and follow the public in their wisdom?!
no offense here.

my hard knocks school taught me to approach everything with a healthy dose of empirical skepticism.
Enter Signature
  • #294
  • Jan 10, 2009 10:26am Jan 10, 2009 10:26am
Quoting CHFJunkie
that's the point , professional buying.
but the question how can you quantify them??
by using charts and so called volume?? I don't think so.

if you want real volume , trade CME currency futures and not the FX market.

have you tried to test the conventional wisdom about volume and price patterns??

or you just read and follow the public in their wisdom?!
no offense here.

my hard knocks school taught me to approach everything with a healthy dose of empirical skepticism.
in case u did not get it, i only trade based on that i have never been that accurate before, even in top & bottom picking.

i really wonder where's your problem in thinking or understanding. yes charts show all u need to know! just give me a answer to the question i asked two times, what else do u think? news, economic numbers?

if you have a candy store what do you do if there is a good u want to sell but nobody buys? right, reducing price. you also could make a chart of that so where is yur understanding problem?

when price is low enough to meet with enough buyers u stop reducing it and increase it until buying dries of. right, u got it, low volume on rising prices! in our candy store there is no shortselling possibility, so we stick that example.

yes, VOLUME is the key to show professional activity. what else whould show it??

i also trade futures, not only fx but the approach is the same and if there was a market to trade mud it would work!

it is absolutely nothing about conventional wisdom here, at least from my side.

but you propaganda is pretty much stuffed with assumptions and conventional wisdom

i am out here since i do not need to discuss, i only want to clean up with misconceptions here
  • #295
  • Jan 10, 2009 10:36am Jan 10, 2009 10:36am
oops, u got disappointed , you couldn't stand a simple discussion

all my words are based on experience and a track record that makes me trust what I'm saying.

anyway , you keep buying and selling your candies , stick to it.

Picking tops and bottoms is great to naive traders .

all I can say to you , don't confuse luck with brains. you may have been lucky for a while but take care , in FX u r just one trade away from humility.

Adios as it seems u will never appreciate anything of value!
Enter Signature
  • #296
  • Jan 10, 2009 10:42am Jan 10, 2009 10:42am
You can forecast the next move volume by looking the chart and the market fractal geometry, identify where you (the price in that moment) are, and if you understand, you can know when and where (and why) big moves comes, volume is just another indicator that lag like any other indi (yes, by lag i mean that it show you volumes after the fact).
  • #297
  • Jan 10, 2009 10:46am Jan 10, 2009 10:46am
Quoting CHFJunkie
oops, u got disappointed , you couldn't stand a simple discussion

all my words are based on experience and a track record that makes me trust what I'm saying.

anyway , you keep buying and selling your candies , stick to it.

Picking tops and bottoms is great to naive traders .

all I can say to you , don't confuse luck with brains. you may have been lucky for a while but take care , in FX u r just one trade away from humility.

Adios as it seems u will never appreciate anything of value!
lol did i miss anything? you are disqualifying yourself with absolutely no content in your posts.

i answered everything and gave exampes, you haven't answered my question the third time becauseyou have no clue of the markets or what you are saying

i am not disappointed, i am happier than ever since i dumped indicators over 1,5y ago and i brought vsa to some guys here on ff which are also amazed after spending some weeks/months learning.

yes, shorting tops on areas of previous resistance when supply hit the market and we got a test that buying has gone. u do not understand that, but if buying has gone which shows in up bars on low vo, how should market the break the resistance? you would get pretty interested when seeing how awesome it works if mastered. not just blind trendline shorting on touch like u seem to do- lol
and theire are also more pretty nice principles on how to swim with the orderflow.

there are always such guys like you, mocking around and blocking theirselfs from taking notes of valuable information but i bet you realize it on your own.
  • #298
  • Jan 10, 2009 10:51am Jan 10, 2009 10:51am
Quoting tunera
You can forecast the next move volume by looking the chart and the market fractal geometry, identify where you (the price in that moment) are, and if you understand, you can know when and where (and why) big moves comes, volume is just another indicator that lag like any other indi (yes, by lag i mean that it show you volumes after the fact).
volume cannot lag. vol shows how much activity happened during a time period and is nothing calculated.
indicators that try to predict the futures by calculating past values are lagging, like everthing else. vol is the only forecasting indicators, because it shows you e.g. that during the 15m bar which now closed there was no buying going on, so one cann assume market gets weak.

please, before posting such stuff inform yourself and not just blindly post what you think.

volume does not calculate something, it just shows activity.

e.g. if you see very high vol on an up bar, the next bar is down u can assume that the high vol was selling on that up bar. if the market then tries to go back up on low vol u can make assumptions that demand has dried of. in such phases market is vulnerable to shorts of professional money, especially if on known areas of resistance, you then have your very secure entry!
  • #299
  • Edited 11:00am Jan 10, 2009 10:53am | Edited 11:00am
boy , ur problem is all ur assumptions and observations are built on fake idea

THERE IS NO VOLUME TO BE CALCULATED IN FX MARKETS

go and ask , someone who knows about fx market mechanics.

an edit : go and break down the formula used in the volume indicators u r using.
test it and then post here how u found it different from other forumulas and how u think it can calculate volume.
Enter Signature
  • #300
  • Jan 10, 2009 10:56am Jan 10, 2009 10:56am
I was just trying to say something, that clearly you havn't understood, and this don't shock me at all. Sorry, i was not looking to offend anyone, anyway when you look at volume to forecast the next volume or the next direction or the power of the move, you are actually using it to forecast, like newbies uses indicators to forecast the market, that's where i was saying that volume like any other indi say what happened in the last bar/bars, but i know many traders look at it to take their own decisions, there's nothing bad in it.
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