Brokers Do Take Opposite Trades!

Reason for arguing with you would be the fact that I get bored a lot during the day. The other reason is because you dont know what you are talking about and anyone that has a clue already knows this. I didnt argue with you about the terms and conditions. I argued with you as to why those terms and conditions are there and how little you know about the market.

Ok fxtrader. Maybe im not 100% certain about how brokers and ecns ect operate but i doubt u really know how they operate as well, unless u happen to work for them, in which case u wudnt waste ur time here.
As for my knowledge of forex Im quite confident about that. nearly a year on demo and reading a hell of a lot of information and askin a lot of questions has got me in good grounding now. I have already opened a live acount with alpari uk, but have been saving to put 1k in there and now am ready.
I am stil learning and dont claim to know it all, but i am confident in what i do no, and not up my own arse about it like u. I sense from u that u are not doing to well in this otherwise u wudnt be such an arse. Bt i cud be wrong i wudnt want to judge u when i dont know u and nor do i wish to know u. Good trading to u, im done argueing.

FFS, I can't believe this garbage is being brought back to life.

It's like one of those great myths that will just never die. Being a "counterparty" is not in itself a problem. You are trading through your broker, so they take your trade, then they go off to their market with it when they accumulate a big enough position to bother with it. Your spread with them and their spread with their trading network may or may not be the same... and it has to cover their risk as they fart around with your penny ante lame trades.

This has nothing to do with brokers being cruddy. Cruddy brokers are cruddy for a variety of reasons, none of which have anything to do with the mechanics of the relationship between trader and broker.

and yet another one that doesnt really get the point of this post...
Look this post is to make people aware of a note in the terms and conditions which backs up the 'rumours' that fly around about brokers trading against you. I unlike a lot of people dont like to take other peoples words for things, so I have shown a statement in terms and conditions to back up these claims, which it does.
I am not saying that this makes brokers scum, I am just pointing out that they do manipulate prices to suit them which was my main concern.
I think I have hit peoples nerves with this because they cant hack it. You see something you dont like so u have do have a go at someone and be negative.
Just accept for gods sake that this was to back up rumours and dont get upset over it.

p.s. I love how this is bringing out all the egotistical 'proffessionals' who no exactly everything about forex and have to be seen to proove themselves they are the almighty god of forex, and anyone elses view is just 'garbage'. Why is it this only happens in an online forum, i never come accross so many ego driven asswh*les that are completely up there own ass cracks, as i do in the real world.

WOW

Hey Fry so you gonna open a live account and you been saving up till you got $1000. I'm really impressed.

Not only that but you know the FX market now because you been demo trading for a year.

Can I suggest that you learn a bit of humility and take your head out of ur arse.

1 yr demo has taught you zilch.

There are guys on this forum probably started trading(live) before you were born.

You need to listen to some of them more.

The forex market is a 0 sum game or not?!?

stewrigh, u will notice that i put i dont claim to know everything and im stil learning. As for listening to other more experienced traders, this is what i have been doing for the past year. An example of an experienced trader wud be Sam Seiden.
Secondly there is nothing to learn from anyone in this thread.
Thirdly my head is not up my arse because im not the one with the problem with what I have posted at the beggining of the thread.
Also i wud say demo trading has taught me a great deal.
So there u go.

There you go, he has learned a great deal from demo trading. Now he is learing about the disclaimers that come with LIVE account documents as this is not something he learned about while demo trading for a year. Best of luck to you with your 1000 bucks.

Hi,

I seriously hope that ur trading goes well and would be interested in following your progress.

Please keep us informed.

I'm sure that 1k will soon be 100k.

You could even start your own journal to post your trades.

Best regards
Steve

You know, I didn't really take you on directly, but if you want to try to claim that I don't get it, perhaps I should.

The "rumours" that fly around are that your broker is out to get you and the note you've posted is something you appear to see as validation of this "rumour".

What I have said is that whether or not the broker acts as a counterparty is not the issue. Both good brokers and bad brokers act as a counterparty. It's the way the system is set up. Additionally, most of the time when people think their broker is bad, it's because they don't trade well.

Now, if you want to claim a broker is trading against you (in the hopes you fail), which is in fact different than acting as a counterparty, that is fine. However, it would be best that the two issues are understood as separate items.

There are too many rumours in this business. It makes it very difficult for new traders to figure out what the hell is going on. When new traders blame their broker when making bad trades, instead of thinking they have a lot more to learn, they won't be learning how to improve their trading... which is not helpful.

So, the real issue is figuring out how to know whether or not your broker is bad -- not that your broker is acting as a counterparty to your trades.

Get it?

gvroom, that was a very level headed explaination... that is good feedback for our newbie friend.

fry2010, please note that most of us are just trying to help you understand that acting as counterparty is not the worst thing that ever happened to you, infact it is the only thing that makes it possible for you to trade this market.

although some have strange ways of showing it most people here are really just trying to help.

Yes sorry gvroom, i did take ur comment as an attack. It seems that everyone is having a go for some reason and just fort u was another. u make a gd point also about the difference between acting as counterparty and trading against u. I have read a lot of peoples comments on brokers trading against u, but u cant really rely on what other people say.
As i keep sayin this post was to substatiate the rumours.
However I disagree with som comments that the broker isnt out to 'get' ur money just cause u have a few hundred bucks. They are out for ur money because they are a business, and im sry but if ur any good at math u wud realise that a few hundred bucks for each every trader they have makes a substantial amount of money. The fact that they state they may not offer u the best price available tells me that they can give what pretty much whatever price they like. Obvoisly because they wud want to have a gd reputation and repeat business they arnt gna be stupid about it, but i still rekon they wud make it hard work.
These retail brokers just remind me too much of casino's. They give a little and take a bit more.
But obvoisly I havnt yet traded with real cash. So I really dont no what they will be like, i just dont like the fact they can give u whatever price suits them. This is just my opinion.
Anyway i feel this thread is upsetting people a bit because they dont like to read the truth, so if a moderator can close this from discussion i think it wud be best. It has turned into one of 'those' threads.

Most MM's fill on an aggregate level, so it really would be worth it for them to move the market to "Get" you. Not for stops, not for anything, cause what makes you lose, may make a ton of other people win, and vice versa....Make sense?

Although I think that people tend to bash each other in the forums and hence SCREWING the topic, I don't think it is for you to decide to ask for moderators to close the topic, I and many others are interested in experienced people's opinion about this particular subject too: Do brokers really hunt your orders? And why would they do it? (after all most people don't have a winning system anyways).

I find logical that brokers trade against you in the sense that when you buy THEY are selling it to you (when you win they loose and viceversa), but they should respect the outcome 100%, meaning they should honor your good trades always, and not play with sudden server drops, requotes or stop hunting. Some people even claim that the broker asks them to close the account if they are profitable!!!!!!

regards,
Luis

I think I am about even as far as taking out stops as well as being 1 pip short and going the other way for profit....I get more frustrated on exits...

"...Some people even claim that the broker asks them to close the account if they are profitable!!!!!!"

regards,
Luis[/quote]

I take it you're pretty new to forex. This is not a claim; it's fact. I personally know people it's happened to, and they usually don't "ask." They just close the account, sometimes refusing to even give you your profits.

Why would they do that you ask? Simple. When you lose money they make it, when you make money they lose it. Forex is a "zero sum" game, meaning that for every dollar you make, there is someone else somewhere in the world that is losing that same dollar. Remember, it's foreign EXCHANGE. No money is being created, it's simply being transferred back and forth from one trader to another (on a global scale of course). That's why it's called "trading."

In the case of a broker that is a market maker, THEY are that "other trader" taking the other side of your trade, so once you understand that, it should be easy to understand why they hunt stops, want you to lose money, etc. etc. But none of this is a secret. It's common knowledge, but I can understand you not realizing that if you're a new trader...

Best wishes.

Brokers don't - Dealers do. Switch to futures.

TCEast,


This really begs the question, why do you trade? If you think the broker is out to make you lose and that if you start to win consistently they will close you and not give you your profits, why bother? The only logical answer I can think of is just for fun.

I'm relatively new to forex and don't claim to know either way, so I'm keeping an open mind on this one.

Bucket shops want your money, if you can't trade around there problems, get a real broker, mbtrading, IB , etc, if you want a bucket shop that doesn't close your account for making money, there is fxsolutions, oanda, ibfx, which do allow profits and wire you the money when you ask, I have personal experience with them, I also know some larger reputable traders that use oanda and such with out a problem with money requests and profits etc.

Hope that helps someone.

Well, obviously I'm trading to make money, and I have been able to do that for about a year and a half since I started. Your question requires a bit more detail. First, a market maker usually will not close your account for example unless you are taking them for a large amount of money on a large account. So, if you have a $5,000 account and are profiting $2,000/month for example, you most likely won't have a problem since they won't even notice you. If you start taking them for $20,000/month, well that's a different story. It's kind of like being in a casino. If you're winning all the time at blackjack, they will politely ask you to leave and they have the right to do so.

So, at a market maker, you simply want to keep a low profile. If you have a winning strategy, spread your money around a bit among several brokers, so you don't draw anyone's attention by making too much at any one broker. One of my rules for withdrawing money for example, is never to make a withdrawal of over $10,000 at any one time, and to rarely if ever trade lot sizes of over $1MM. Again, just some common sense ways to stay under their radar. Plus, some bucketshops are better than others; they are not all the same. A US regulated, large broker that has good reviews from clients, will PROBABLY be better to you than some offshore, unregulated, "broker" headquartered in Panama or Egypt (no offense to people from those countries, but I'd just rather have my money someplace a little more familiar to me).

The other option, which was just mentioned by another poster, is open an account at an ECN broker. They make their money from commissions, so they have no problem if you profit every time you trade; it's not their money that you're taking, it's the bank's money, who's ordes they are passing to the retail community. However, even with an ECN I think you still want to use common sense. If you have a strategy that makes you a bunch of money all at once in a single trade for example, whatever bank took the hit may call the broker and say "get rid of this guy, or we're not going to let you pass our orders into the retail market anymore." Remember, if you're making money, somebody somewhere on the planet is losing it.

For example, I had an account at a Currenex broker (ECN), and I made over $10,000 in about a minute once, on one order. I was happy of course, but at the same time was genuinely concerned that I'd be getting a phone call later that day from the broker (under pressure from whatever bank), telling me to take my business elsewhere. That didn't happen, but again, it always makes sense to do what you can to not draw attention to yourself.

But like I said earlier, unless you're trading a large account at a market maker (like north of $50,000), they will probably just leave you alone anyway, but it's still wise to err on the side of caution.

Anyway, I hope that helps, and best wishes to you...