The truth about retail Forex brokers !!

I can't believe someone as well known as Bill Williams could come out with such twaddle.
If only my broker was price shading, I'd be able to fleece them for every penny by arbitraging with an interbank feed against them. Sadly, mine is too honest.
As for stop running, he seems to be suggesting it's happening on an individual retail level. Sure. It'll be nothing to do with those big banks sweeping known stops of super-large orders then? Of course not Bill, they're out to get you...

does alot of these problems relating to bucket shops get negated with ECN's?

Do people really have so many problems w/ bucket shops? Maybe it's just me and I've been lucky, but I mean seriously... how many times have you ever had a problem w/ your broker that wasn't easily solved?

Why do so many ppl feel the need to blame stuff on their broker...?

Personally, I'll have trouble to disagree with either side of the arguement because I've seen it go both ways.

Here's why:

For some, the retail experience has been just fine for them. They found a niche, a broker that they are
very familliar with and know how they operate, even under most screwed/blued/tattooed conditions
and while using reasonable trading methods have managed to develop a plan to overcome any of these factors
which will definately obstruct other traders under the same conditions.

A person who has a certain trading style and or trades large amounts at a retail MM
will find those same conditions can be their undoing.

Real world example: platform freezes or goes off-line when you have 10 lots on.
This is the broker counting his money. You can't trade right now. It's likely his book is lopsided.
Your 10 lots are really not the issue at all, At least not your trade in particular .
However, collectively, your 10 lots and a hundred other trades all together has tripped the risk button at the dealing desk.
They have to smooth that out somehow and if it costs you money, that's just too damned bad for you and me.

Not saying technical platform glitches don't happen, but they are not always authentic "glitches". Some brokers pull this stunt, others don't.

If someone is fortunate enough not to have this experience, or a number of other shinanigans, they are likely to give
a positive opinion about the dealer they have been executing through.

Certain trading styles work better at certain brokers.
If you swing trade, place a limit and a stop a handful of times a week, or even daytrade, place a few orders and do your thing,
then there's less that can go wrong than if you place 200 trades a day and scalp the crap out of the yen every few pips.

I also think this is independent of whether or not the party is overall profitable or not.
If you're profitable, you have just as much right to bitch as someone who is losing.
Sometimes it seems those who lose have a higher propensity to point out their misfortunes than those who profit,
but an intelligent person can see past that and when a broker commits a foul, win or lose, you should call foul.

Also, don't forget there really are some dishonest people out there, in forex and everywhere else too.
Sometimes a person really does get the shaft, but it is being done under the terms of the agreement
that was signed when the account was opened. Just because it doesn't happen everyday, it doesn't mean that
it can't happen when it will do the most financial damage to you.

Those who forget that little caveat are often found testing the terms of their agreement after what they considered a bad trade
and found out that this was the "uncalculated risk" that was eluded to in the fine print and not so fine print.

As much as I feel for those who have it handed to them every now and again,
it still reminds me of someone walking out of church and feeling all good about themselves and others,
so they walk down the street and get mugged and wonder why someone would do that to them.

What do you think would happen ? They don't feel like you do. You are a means to an end.

Anyway, I got one more thing:

Have you ever read the disclaimers ? I mean really read them ? Let's look at one.

Trading in the foreign exchange markets on margin carries a high level of risk, and may not be suitable for all individuals.
The high degree of leverage offered in the Forex markets can work against you as well as for you. Before deciding to trade
in the foreign exchange markets you should carefully consider your investment objectives, your level of experience,
and your risk appetite. The possibility exists that you could sustain a loss of some or all of your equity and therefore you should
not invest money that you cannot afford to lose. Only true discretionary cash should be used in trading. You should make yourself
aware of all the risks associated with foreign exchange trading and seek advice from an independent financial advisor if you have
any questions or concerns as to how a loss would affect your lifestyle.


I'll translate it for you:

Trading in the foreign exchange markets on margin carries a high level of risk, and may not be suitable for all individuals.

We are counting on the law of average numbers that you will lose when trading forex.

The high degree of leverage offered in the Forex markets can work against you as well as for you.

Since we assume you'll lose, we intend to trade against your position.

Before deciding to trade in the foreign exchange markets you should carefully consider
your investment objectives, your level of experience, and your risk appetite.

When you lose your money, don't complain because we don't want to hear it and we already told you so.
If you don't know what the hell you're doing, we fully welcome your business.

The possibility exists that you could sustain a loss of some or all of your equity and therefore you should not
invest money that you cannot afford to lose.

Again, we expect you to lose. If you do not lose, we are not doing our job correctly.

Only true discretionary cash should be used in trading.

We want you to send us your rent and grocery money.

You should make yourself aware of all the risks associated with foreign exchange trading

The greatest risk you will assume is not from the market, but from trading with us.
If you think you know what you are doing, we think otherwise.

and seek advice from an independent financial advisor if you have any questions
or concerns as to how a loss would affect your lifestyle.

Don't believe us ? We even encourage you to ask someone else because
we know you won't bother to. They'll tell you the same thing we just did.


Don't just read between the lines. Read past them. You'll see where it leads.

Yeah, I know... I love to bring old threads back to life.... I guess it's in my blood

Loved the translation....

Hmmmm....you should have some drawings to explain better, perhaps.....?

Cheers!

I have had the honor to meet Bill on several occasions, He is right. As far as forex is concerned I know a few really good ones...but they are among the 5% non scammers!

Regards
Peter

Those that consistently lose in this market are the same ones that consistently blame their errors on the brokers. Sad, but true.

Don't get me wrong, there are some real scams out there, but if you, as a business man/woman do your due diligence you should spot most broker scams!

For example if you're a US Citizen don't use a broker in Russia! Use one in the USA. If you have questions call the broker up and ask questions in forums like this one. If you can't do your own due diligence then you will eventually fall prey to a scam, not only in forex, but in everyday life.

Those that haven't made it to 'full time trader' status yet, will eventually or they won't, just like any business though. You'll prosper or your doors will be closed in a year or two.

Sounds like a bunch of Whiny Babies blaming everything on everyone else, instead of taking taking responsibility for themselves!

Forex isn't easy, neither is opening up a new business, neither is having a successful marriage, neither is raising kids, but guess what....many are successful at each and every one of those things.

Take responsibility and quit complaining and thinking everyone is out to screw you. Most don't even know you exist!

better yet, blame it on the programmers

there things that work, there are things that don't.

a lot of it has to do with trade style once you get passed the broker issue.

trade with a bank. it's within reach. like citi or saxo or varengold. i know some of us can or could have at one point afford to trade at those banks. I don;t really care for outriight brokers myself period but you do what you got to do for a quick minute, right?!

there a reason they call them brokers!

i dunno, i like to get trades 24/5 that's the reason I'm here. not because some broker offered me a bonus on my deposit or he(she) can give me some ridiculous 1:500 leverage.

it's known that retail trading is only 10-15% of the entire market. Maybe knowing that should help us in the battlefeild.

newbie, how much do you need to trade with the bank like you are referring? any recommendations? thx in advance.

Anybody trading through bank please tell us what spread do you get for eur/usd and commission if applicable...

citifx wants 10,000 for a regular account. institutional accounts unknown to me they have mt4
varengold 2500.00 for a regular account 250,000.00 for institutional mt4
dbfx (duetchebank) 5000.00 for regular 25,000 for institutional accounts you can use mt4 bridge if needed from outside sources
saxobank is 5000.00 unknown for corp. accounts to me

The spreads at CitiFX Pro are comparable to other banks offering retail forex accounts. But you get the security of dealing with Citi. Your deposits are also FDIC insured in the United States. But you pay for this in the 2pip spread in Euro.

http://www.citifxpro.com/spreadsandm...s/spreads.aspx

I demoed their trading platform for a day and was so turned off by it I haven't looked at it again. But being able to trade with a bank is very attractive.