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  • #41
  • Dec 9, 2008 5:43pm Dec 9, 2008 5:43pm
The thing to remember about trading is its almost 100% discretional. So if you are trading mechanically, you are going to malfunction (like a robot).

It becomes an instinct, if the price is making lower highs around a resistance duh its going to go down. Its not "oh two lines crossed, time to sell"..

I am not going to say that people who trade the line crosses are wrong, infact with good money management and a long term out look you can do well with bells and whistles, but most people trading said systems are looking for the get rich quick fix. Which is possible, but not using those types of systems, because the win:loss does not get you very far ahead of break even.

So you need to trade the same way as the other noise makers (myself included) rather than trying to beat them, because you won't. There is a reason they are labelled professionals, and thats generally because they are the best. I am far from them, I know that, maybe in a few years I will be able to compete. But I know how they trade, the idea is to follow them.

There is another major issue about trading. That is that online, you do not get direct market access (even through said ECN's that have such a great reputation). The job of the broker is to market make, so THEY have the direct access, you get nothing.

I can tell you now that a 100k order (1k leveraged) can move the market during a thin period. I have seen it first hand. So the Q is why don't my orders online move the market? I know they don't, and they are more than 1K leveraged.

Thats because the 2-3 pip spread, that the market makers offer, does not cover cost. If you had 200 mill, it might.. But 2-3 pips on a 100$ order is going to cost a broker money.

Only if you are on the interbank will you get spreads below 2 pts, and thats if the trading desk likes you, or is in a position to give it. If you are doing a 1:1 leveraged trade before 7am Aus time, you will get charged 90-100 pts on a 200 mill transaction in spread. And hedge funds are HAPPY with this at that time, because no one else will execute it (has to be executed on shore).

So bascially, online trading is like betting. You just have to hope you are better than the bookie, and if they start to not pay up, leave them whilst you can.
  • #42
  • Dec 9, 2008 5:59pm Dec 9, 2008 5:59pm
takisd,

from Lismore/NSW here; bit too far out for a chat but who knows............

you seem to trade the breakouts.......is the quiet Asian session volatile enough to do that?

take care
  • #43
  • Dec 9, 2008 6:05pm Dec 9, 2008 6:05pm
Quoting yonnie
takisd,

from Lismore/NSW here; bit too far out for a chat but who knows............

you seem to trade the breakouts.......is the quiet Asian session volatile enough to do that?

take care
I only trade breakouts in a sideways market (as has been of late). The asian session is what I trade at work, and I mostly trade AUD (its what i was hired for). Its tough, but the price action is alot clearer during this period. And there are some breakouts sometimes, the difference is, when I trade the Asian session, I'm acting as a small market maker (thin markets so movement is created) so I don't actually trade the price action 100% unless the markets have high volume.

At home I spend time on the london and us market. But I generally trade whenever there is something worth trading.

Hows trading in Lismore? I'm originally from country NSW.
  • #44
  • Dec 9, 2008 6:50pm Dec 9, 2008 6:50pm
I can tell you now that a 100k order (1k leveraged) can move the market during a thin period. I have seen it first hand. So the Q is why don't my orders online move the market? I know they don't, and they are more than 1K leveraged.

Hello,
I am am enjoying your posts here,thanks for them.Can you elaborate more on this?
  • #45
  • Dec 9, 2008 6:58pm Dec 9, 2008 6:58pm
Quoting jlmac27
I can tell you now that a 100k order (1k leveraged) can move the market during a thin period. I have seen it first hand. So the Q is why don't my orders online move the market? I know they don't, and they are more than 1K leveraged.

Hello,
I am am enjoying your posts here,thanks for them.Can you elaborate more on this?
If you buy 100k AUD in a thin market, the market will move a few points because of the transaction.

If you are trading 1k at 1:100 at a retail broker (which is common) it should mean 100k enters the market.

However since the 100k never enters the market, theres no possible way for it to move the market. Becaues the broker would rather use the money to make a profit themselves by either pooling orders OR speculating themselves.

Whereas if you did a simple exchange of XAUD into 100kUSD, you will see the market move a little bit when the volume is low.

During high volume this wouldnt do a thing.
  • #46
  • Dec 9, 2008 7:06pm Dec 9, 2008 7:06pm
So, do you trade bounces off support and resistance in a trending market then? (You mentioned you only trade breakouts in sideways markets.)

How far past an S&R line do you place your trade? IE. At what distance past the support do you determine that it's a breakout?

It looks like you trade very similar to this: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=86429

Cheers,
B
  • #47
  • Dec 9, 2008 7:21pm Dec 9, 2008 7:21pm
Quoting b-rock
So, do you trade bounces off support and resistance in a trending market then? (You mentioned you only trade breakouts in sideways markets.)

How far past an S&R line do you place your trade? IE. At what distance past the support do you determine that it's a breakout?

It looks like you trade very similar to this: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=86429

Cheers,
B
After skimming through that thread I could probably say I do trade similar. And I now know who billyrayvalentine is lol....

A breakout all depends on price action, again its discretionary, there is no set limit to it. There is one way I look at it. If you hit a support/res, and there seems to be alot of support/res then follow it, even if its only temporary. This also means you can trade counter trend, but confidence is higher when you trade with the trend.

If I am not mistaken billyray trades on h4, so he would be longer term than me in terms of trade duration. And his frequency would be much less (maybe a trade every few days on a slow week). Yesterday I did 8 trades, day before I did 23. Today I am hoping to do over 10 (at home).

The methodology is the same, i think he just doesn't take the risk trades. But his title is very very good, no brainer.
I'd probably lose more often also.

Its lunch time here in the office.
  • #48
  • Dec 9, 2008 7:51pm Dec 9, 2008 7:51pm
Quoting Takisd
A fellow trader i know trades tick charts, but hes a math freak, I am unsure as to what he actually does, but looks for patterns in the price changes or something. And he trades about 4x more positions than me in a working day.

Piters, I'd happily meet up for a chat anytime... Name the time/place, preferably the financial end of the cbd .
I trade 1080T and 540T. I pull all my fibo's and TL from there. Much better, and clearer. I can see all the pull backs inside the 10min or 5 min chart. Then I return to my 5 min only for Volume reading..

NP, my friend.. I'll send you a PM..
  • #49
  • Dec 9, 2008 8:11pm Dec 9, 2008 8:11pm
Quoting Piters
I trade 1080T and 540T. I pull all my fibo's and TL from there. Much better, and clearer. I can see all the pull backs inside the 10min or 5 min chart. Then I return to my 5 min only for Volume reading..

NP, my friend.. I'll send you a PM..
Theres no way I can trade those time frames, most probably because I am lazy, and try to check the market in 10 minute intervals rather than sit there constantly.

Are you working for a firm Piters? The way you trade, it appears you should be.
  • #50
  • Dec 9, 2008 9:16pm Dec 9, 2008 9:16pm
Takisd,

Nice informative info in these post especially the ECN & BROKER info. ECN & BROKERS issues not considered by many in the beginning of their trading careers.

In post #43 u stated u trade London & US from home.........just curious as to what pairs & are u using the same method as you are @ work?

What are your views on trading PRICE ACTION on say 5M & 15M?

Tks for your time & willingness to share. Just trying to add more to my edge.

Regards & Best Trades.
___________________________________
  • #51
  • Dec 9, 2008 9:20pm Dec 9, 2008 9:20pm
Quoting acetrader
Takisd,

Nice informative info in these post especially the ECN & BROKER info. ECN & BROKERS issues not considered by many in the beginning of their trading careers.

In post #43 u stated u trade London & US from home.........just curious as to what pairs & are u using the same method as you are @ work?

What are your views on trading PRICE ACTION on say 5M & 15M?

Tks for your time & willingness to share. Just trying to add more to my edge.

Regards & Best Trades.
___________________________________
I am using the same method as at work. It was the reason I was hired, I believe.

I trade most pairs with reasonable spread. e/u g/u a/u u/chf eur/a g/j e/j u/j are the main ones. At work i trade a/u e/a and g/a and a little a/j but we have an a/j specialist so I sorta stay clear a bit.

Trading price action on 5M and 15M works, I wouldnt consider myself qualified on those time frames, and unless I had a few weeks spare, I would probably try familiarise myself, and it shouldn't be too hard. But it owuld probably throw me off my current trading, which is profitable, so I dont want to do that unless entirely necessary.
  • #52
  • Dec 9, 2008 9:56pm Dec 9, 2008 9:56pm
Takisd,

Tks for that & I would not change if the 1H is working for you. If not broke don't fix it. The 5 & 15M just works better for my short term trend trades, but 1H is viewed as well.

I hope you keep up this thread as it is most informative & cuts out the BS seen elsewere.

______________________________
  • #53
  • Dec 10, 2008 12:36am Dec 10, 2008 12:36am
Quick one since I just got home.

A/u failed again on the upside, and has decent resistance.. THe price action suggests a break out is going to happen, I shorted for the lower support. as the resistance is far stronger than the support.
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  • #54
  • Dec 10, 2008 12:46am Dec 10, 2008 12:46am
Hi,

I like the simplicity of your trading style. Clear and straight forward. Just been wondering, what the use of the 200SMA? And how would you calculate your reward?

For me, I trade using Bill William Profitunity (Chaos). A little bit of indis, but what I like about it is it's not telling me when to sell/buy. You got to understand what the market doing. Things like that.

Happy Trading,
/arcus
  • #55
  • Dec 10, 2008 1:08am Dec 10, 2008 1:08am
Quoting arcus
Hi,

I like the simplicity of your trading style. Clear and straight forward. Just been wondering, what the use of the 200SMA? And how would you calculate your reward?

For me, I trade using Bill William Profitunity (Chaos). A little bit of indis, but what I like about it is it's not telling me when to sell/buy. You got to understand what the market doing. Things like that.

Happy Trading,
/arcus
I don't really use the 200sma, its just on my charts, the same at work (its programmed into our trading platform at work). There are methods of using it with price action, I've even looked into a few, basically you can follow a trend by going under or over the MA. However its too slow for me, and you usually lose 1/2 the move unless its really strong, but the SMA angle can help visualise the market type.. i.e trending, sideways etc.

The chaos method is decent, I have a friend overseas who uses it to manage a few mill, he chooses not to work for a bank even though he was offered a job to do so.

I don't really like to trade those types of methods, as I am a bit too particular about how I am trading now. I found what works and makes me successful, so I am kind of bitter about anything else (keeps me from mixing up my methods).

If chaos works for you, I suggest you take the same route. Just blank out everything else and perfect what works.
  • #56
  • Dec 10, 2008 1:29am Dec 10, 2008 1:29am
Takisd,

I have just discovered your writings, and it is a joy to read the thoughts of a trader.

I have many years experience as a floor trader in the pits, for both my own account and clients, but I had to learn how to trade all over again when I discovered Forex about 5 years ago. In the pits it was more psychology and being able to read the order flow. Behind a screen it is more about reading the markets.

I believe strongly in the KISS principal and the best advice I was ever given was "The markets are ALWAYS right. It's traders who are WRONG." I have never gotten married to a position or a bias and I definitely know how to take a loss when it is warranted.

Keep up the good work and may the pips keep coming your way.
  • #57
  • Dec 10, 2008 2:15am Dec 10, 2008 2:15am
I appreciate the compliments.

Simplicity is a big thing in life. It helps you save money, it helps you make money and it doesnt complicate things. So its always easy to be simple.

Thats why those who own a ferrari are burning now that the stock markets are down. And the number of maserattis in the CBD are dropping, and people are trying to sell their 'toys'. Because they bought something in the long run they couldnt afford.

I like my travel ten, gets me on the bus safely .. And its simple.

I am actually thinking to move over to europe (the motherland, european ancestors) so I might see whats available on the job market over there. Cost of living is alot cheaper.
  • #58
  • Dec 10, 2008 3:06am Dec 10, 2008 3:06am
Ok i closed up all my trades, i had 9 of them I got the a/u out at 30 pips.

I took about 300 total and am now sipping my berocca, the drink of champions, and people who dont like getting sick.
  • #59
  • Dec 10, 2008 3:36am Dec 10, 2008 3:36am
you drink Berocca about the same time I eat my wheaties ,lol I have spent time and $$ on all sorts of bells and whistles to help with learning about the fx ( love to spend the time but not so much the $$ ) just laterly I began to read the ' no brainer ' thread and now at last the penny seems to be dropping and to find your post is a bonus ,
do you use the type of brokers that are mostly found with the free charts ? .
I am demo'ing with them but not sure who to go with when I graduate to live trades, I see that fxcm are now operating in Oz, so maybe,
also too far to drop in for a chat from far south coast
thanks for the info and the thread ,
cheers
  • #60
  • Dec 10, 2008 3:44am Dec 10, 2008 3:44am
Quoting JayalFX
you drink Berocca about the same time...
I dont trust FXCM personally, i used them a few yrs ago and they did a dodgey on me. And I believe in one chance only, especially with brokers.

I only use free software at home. Mt4 and duka's crappy platform. I analyse on mt4 though.
At work our company owns a platform, but thats not much different, and if you are trading price action, it all depends on feed, not platform.

Its good to see you are seeing how good trading is and how simple it can be.

The problem with most 'wannabe' traders is that they are mesmerised by the promise of gold. However don't want to put in the hard work. So they look at colourful stuff and other things that do their head in. The simple things in life are hardest to get your head around, its a fact. Not many people think in logic, and common sense is the least common type of sense in existance. And I usually leave people to learn things the hard way, and I still sort of am. But after a few emails that pissed me off amongst other things, i felt the need to post. And am discovering its all been said before, but people still continue to fool themselves. But thats ok, I am not trying to change them, just trying to get a point across.
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