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How people should really trade!

  • #21
  • Dec 8, 2008 7:11am Dec 8, 2008 7:11am
Takisd,

Nice thread for the openminded............keep it coming. We are listening.

________
  • #22
  • Dec 8, 2008 10:11am Dec 8, 2008 10:11am
Quoting Takisd
Ugh just came online to check on a few things and it seems some posts are missing. I am upset as to why people would remove certain comments from my thread.

I like the criticism, proving someone wrong is fun....
Twee was just cleaning up some of the sniveling........
Same Whore .... Different Dress
  • #23
  • Dec 8, 2008 2:32pm Dec 8, 2008 2:32pm
Quoting HipsterPipster
Are you actually trading live with 4% risk and using mt4, or did I miss something and you are just doing this for fun from home?...
I trade on both dukascopy and at another broker... I don't feel like mentioning because people will just bitch.

You are mistaken in terms of the method calculate risk.

Risk is how much you stand to lose, not how much capital you are using. I.E my maximum loss on that trade would have been 4%, i close out for a profit of about 5.2% ( closed it prior to TP) which means I can now take another 4% risk trade with no risk. My risk is calculated by my monthly balance. I.E the first day of the month lets say the account is 100$, then even if i compound up to 400$ the 4% risk is still 4$ until the next month.

This keeps head above water, and doesnt require calculations every 20 seconds due to account changes.

This account is real, its not fun. Its real money. Its not my major account though, as I trade that in accordance to super fund regulations (its self managed super) and its at dukascopy. I don't trade much at home for money in the pocket anymore, because work keeps me tied down and pays the bills. But its always nice to have a little extra cash floating around when something you really want turns up, (I.E my trip to washington DC and Athens next year).

If you are trading for the money, you might as well give up. You should trade because you love it, want it, need it.. Its not about money, its about success

Oh and a 4% trade is quite a regular thing when you work for a small market maker, so its not really hard to stomach that sort of risk.. 10% and we're stretching it.
  • #24
  • Dec 8, 2008 8:25pm Dec 8, 2008 8:25pm
Quoting Takisd
I trade on both dukascopy and at another broker... I don't feel like mentioning because people will just bitch.

You are mistaken in terms of the method calculate risk.

Risk is how much you stand to lose, not how much capital you are using. I.E my maximum loss on that trade would have been 4%, i close out for a profit of about 5.2% ( closed it prior to TP) which means I can now take another 4% risk trade with no risk. My risk is calculated by my monthly balance. I.E the first day of the month lets say the account is 100$, then even if i compound...
Actually, I am not mistaken. I am speaking of risk% per capital, and 4% can be considered high, especially if you have a max 10% monthly drawdown. Maybe that is not the case, and you can loose 20% or whatever. Either way, I did ask if you know what your max monthly drawdown was before you get canned. Many hot shot young traders really don't understand money management and soon find themselves out of a job. Maybe your expectancy allows 4% per trade, who knows?
  • #25
  • Dec 8, 2008 9:08pm Dec 8, 2008 9:08pm
Quoting HipsterPipster
Actually, I am not mistaken. I am speaking of risk% per capital, and 4% can be considered high, especially if you have a max 10% monthly drawdown. Maybe that is not the case, and you can loose 20% or whatever. Either way, I did ask if you know what your max monthly drawdown was before you get canned. Many hot shot young traders really don't understand money management and soon find themselves out of a job. Maybe your expectancy allows 4% per trade, who knows?
My mistake, I wrote that in a rush this morning.

Hotshot young traders, something like that.

But drawdown is in terms of capital invested, do you agree?

If I land my first 5 trades as profits, it would be a very rare occaision that I have to worry about a drawdown on the month.

However last month i started off with 2 losses, the drawdown might have been 2-3% I am unsure, I will check for you. Given an 80% win rate, and the requirements put to me as a trader by my boss. I wouldnt get fired until 30+% dd is encountered from my monthly allocated capital. But if I got a 30% DD I wouldnt deserve the job either, so I'd happily be fired, as I failed in my number 1 objective as a trader, to be successful.
  • #26
  • Dec 8, 2008 9:48pm Dec 8, 2008 9:48pm
Quoting Takisd
But if I got a 30% DD I wouldnt deserve the job either, so I'd happily be fired, as I failed in my number 1 objective as a trader, to be successful.
Awesome attitude!
  • #27
  • Dec 8, 2008 10:15pm Dec 8, 2008 10:15pm
I like how you keep things simple and that is very useful. You're also adaptive to the market which is even more important. I think this is a great approach.

In the end I see why you can have such a high success rate. It is a little deceptive though because your risk will vary depending on market conditions. I believe in normalizing risk by adjusting lots traded in order to minimize the volatility of the account balance.

For some reason people on this forum like to focus mostly on entries and exits on occasion. I feel that less attention is paid on monitoring past performance and the relationship between reward and risk. Success rate alone is meaningless without factoring in the aforementioned.

I really enjoyed things so for on this post but there's still a few key points that we still haven't touched on. Success in trading is determined by how much money you make. Yes you should love it to have the necessary drive to pursue success but lets not fool ourselves. You trade to make money and success is a continuous process that generates an increasing account balance, and this must be continuously monitored.
  • #28
  • Dec 8, 2008 11:07pm Dec 8, 2008 11:07pm
Quoting mjotic
I like how you keep things simple and that is very useful. You're also adaptive to the market which is even more important. I think this is a great approach.

In the end I see why you can have such a high success rate. It is a little deceptive though because your risk will vary depending on market conditions. I believe in normalizing risk by adjusting lots traded in order to minimize the volatility of the account balance.

For some reason people on this forum like to focus mostly on entries and exits on occasion. I feel that less attention is...
Well, money makes the world go round. But if your drive is money, then you are in the wrong place.

I once had to describe my facination with "making money". It was simple, I've always loved numbers, this is just a career, where I like to see the numbers go up.

I don't have an extravogent lifestyle, and I save alot of the money that enters my bank account (still looking to purchase a place to call ''home''). But if you have the means to survive, you should not be money driven.

In my country (i am unsure as to where you are), a 60k/yr salary is comfortable. It provides you with everything you need to survive and then some. If you surpass that, the rest is pretty meaningless. I am not going to disclose my financials, but I do work for only a small firm, its not a major job, and alot of the bigger prop companies would possibly piss on my resume without a track record to indicate my 'success' as i like to call it.

In regards to the change in balance due to difference in risk, most of my trades are generally around 2-2.5% risk. The majority, the thing that is usually around the same is the reward. So basically, if i take a trade at 1% and the reward is 2%, I would look for the same reward from a trade that was 0.5% risk over the longer term. Its just about what opportunity arises.

Equity curves sort of move like the markets really... with the zigzags and what not, so long as the underlying trend is up, your balance is protected, you can try draw trendlines on your balance charts. I do this every now and then if I suffer a small string of losses, just to make sure I haven't broken the trend. When you break the trend, its time to look at your mistakes before its too late. So, basically your equity curve can have dips, so long as the lows are higher lows not lower lows... If that makes any sense, I am not good at verbally expressing myself unless its mere frustration.

I hope I have covered what needed to be covered, I am in the office at the moment had to settle some stuff for a client (i mentioned the eur/aud yesterday). Was a good short at aud/usd.
  • #29
  • Dec 9, 2008 1:30am Dec 9, 2008 1:30am
heres a quick chart before I have to go. I sold aud/usd.

The reason being that there is no real support in the market at the moment, so I sold until evident support. The stoploss at resistance (i will be moving up about 8 pips to cover any break attempts).

Pretty simple trade, not 100% confident in it, I was when I took it. But the fact I have to disappear for an hour or two makes me a little uncomfortable. The risk is ~3%, havent calculated the reward, but they are about even.

Long term trend is down (no hesitation to sell) their is evident resistance around 67, as it has tried to breach there various times over the last two months, so a break is less than likely, however stop loss will cover me if there is a break.

Keep well lads.
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  • #30
  • Dec 9, 2008 2:23am Dec 9, 2008 2:23am
I took 47 pips on the a/u trade (back just in time) i also took some profit on g/j and g/u short. I still have a guest here in my house, so that will most probably be it for the day.

Hope you all had fun..

Ciao.
  • #31
  • Edited 2:27am Dec 9, 2008 2:27am | Edited 2:27am
OH, and if there is anyone who works in the sydney CBD and would like to have a chat at lunch time (i dont drink coffee, and take an hour walk at lunch) when im at work, send me a pm and i will say hi.

Edit: oops i quoted myself.
  • #32
  • Dec 9, 2008 5:47am Dec 9, 2008 5:47am
G'day Takisd,

I'm in Melbourne so the lunchtime chat is out for me.
Is this similar to BillRayValentine style of trading or completely different?

Juicyt
"Even if you fall down face first, you still went forward."
  • #33
  • Dec 9, 2008 5:59am Dec 9, 2008 5:59am
Quoting juicyt
G'day Takisd,

I'm in Melbourne so the lunchtime chat is out for me.
Is this similar to BillRayValentine style of trading or completely different?

Juicyt
Dno who billrayvalentine is. So couldnt tell you.

It could be described as naked trading, i think someone else on this forum calls it that? Its just reading the prices of the market and following them, knowing when they will stop or suggesting they will etc.. its completely descretionary.
  • #34
  • Dec 9, 2008 6:01am Dec 9, 2008 6:01am
Quoting Takisd
My mistake, I wrote that in a rush this morning.

Hotshot young traders, something like that.

But drawdown is in terms of capital invested, do you agree?

If I land my first 5 trades as profits, it would be a very rare occaision that I have to worry about a drawdown on the month.

However last month i started off with 2 losses, the drawdown might have been 2-3% I am unsure, I will check for you. Given an 80% win rate, and the requirements put to me as a trader by my boss. I wouldnt get fired until 30+% dd is encountered from my monthly allocated...
Now your talking, thanks for getting back with me on that. I do agree DD of capital invested, and many calculate max DD each month using the highest attained balance of the prior month. It sounds like you may start out each month with a different balance. I agree, I could never lose 30% of a clients capital and feel like I deserved to trade it. Take care and thanks for sharing.
  • #35
  • Dec 9, 2008 7:48am Dec 9, 2008 7:48am
Takisd,

You just keep getting better as you post. I am really enjoying your frankness in your post.......rare on these forums @ times.

I am trading about the same as you, simple using PA mixing in trendlines & keeping my risk @ about 2.0%-2.5% per trade, but I'm using shorter TF's. I see your using 1H TF from the charts you post.

I started giving up indicators in favor of PA several yrs ago & profits started to increases.

Is your trading TF on the 1H, or what do you use?

Tks again & keeping them coming.

__________________
  • #36
  • Edited 7:46pm Dec 9, 2008 8:30am | Edited 7:46pm
Quoting Takisd
OH, and if there is anyone who works in the sydney CBD and would like to have a chat at lunch time (i dont drink coffee, and take an hour walk at lunch) when im at work, send me a pm and i will say hi.

Edit: oops i quoted myself.
I am in sydney,

YES. .some day

Cheers mate
  • #37
  • Dec 9, 2008 2:39pm Dec 9, 2008 2:39pm
Quoting HipsterPipster
Now your talking, thanks for getting back with me on that. I do agree DD of capital invested, and many calculate max DD each month using the highest attained balance of the prior month. It sounds like you may start out each month with a different balance. I agree, I could never lose 30% of a clients capital and feel like I deserved to trade it. Take care and thanks for sharing.
Well, without giving away too much about how the business i work for works. Capital is allocated monthly. (15th of each month, no idea why this time).
  • #38
  • Dec 9, 2008 2:42pm Dec 9, 2008 2:42pm
Quoting acetrader
Takisd,

You just keep getting better as you post. I am really enjoying your frankness in your post.......rare on these forums @ times.

I am trading about the same as you, simple using PA mixing in trendlines & keeping my risk @ about 2.0%-2.5% per trade, but I'm using shorter TF's. I see your using 1H TF from the charts you post.

I started giving up indicators in favor of PA several yrs ago & profits started to increases.

Is your trading TF on the 1H, or what do you use?

Tks again & keeping them coming.

__________________
I trade off 1 hour. No particular reason other than my old mentor suggested it was the only true short term timeframe. I dno if its true, but since then I have been comfortable on 30min or 1 hour. I have been trading more on the 1 hour over the last 6 months, and am alot more comfortable with it.

I do know how to trade daily charts, and I avoid the rest. I don't like 4 hour charts for some reason, I really dont know why, but its the choice for short term swing traders I believe.

A fellow trader i know trades tick charts, but hes a math freak, I am unsure as to what he actually does, but looks for patterns in the price changes or something. And he trades about 4x more positions than me in a working day.

Piters, I'd happily meet up for a chat anytime... Name the time/place, preferably the financial end of the cbd .
  • #39
  • Dec 9, 2008 3:07pm Dec 9, 2008 3:07pm
Quoting Takisd
Well, without giving away too much about how the business i work for works. Capital is allocated monthly. (15th of each month, no idea why this time).
No worries, I don't need to know those details. I just wanted to see how aware you were of money management. Thanks again.
  • #40
  • Dec 9, 2008 5:28pm Dec 9, 2008 5:28pm
Takisd,

Tks for post #38. I too have a trader friend that trades the ticks, 1M & 5M for very short term trades, but for my style its 5M, 15M & 1H with 15M the core tf. 5M has too much noise @ times, but 15M give me a balance for the short term trend style I trade. I do have some small positions on @ times for longer term trades using the Jacko's style of trading, but short term just works better for me. After many yrs of trading Price Action is now the core of my trading.


This thread is most enjoyable & is providing many eye opening truths about forex......systems & methods that most want disclose.

Tks........Peace & Karma to you. I KNOW YOU HAVE MORE TO SHARE.

___________________________

AceTrader
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