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  • #101
  • Dec 3, 2008 11:31am Dec 3, 2008 11:31am
Quoting Jade Gate
The difference between winners and losers is just one thing. Discipline.

I'm not sure I've seen a more true statement on this entire forum. Discipline is the true cost of moving into the winners circle in trading Forex and most "traders" are not willing to pay that price. That's where the 95% fail rate comes from. It's curious how many would rather pay out their entire account rather than exercise discipline.
  • #102
  • Dec 3, 2008 11:33pm Dec 3, 2008 11:33pm
ive been trading the forex market full-time for 3 years, im starting to hit high seven figure income this year.....Phorex Phreak

Remember---"cut your losses short and let your profits run" a la Van Tharp, of course you have to have the balls and mindset to go along with the golden rule of trading
  • #103
  • Dec 4, 2008 10:33am Dec 4, 2008 10:33am
Quoting FXOne
[size=3]Hey, Mike those who persevere are the ones that get to see success in this business.
[size=3][font=Times New Roman]I wanted to share with you a letter that I wrote to myself in 2005 (Below). I wrote it after making a big mistake on my demo account. A couple of months later after more than 8 months of demo and a lot of backtest and analysis, I went live. I had been making 5% average per month for more than two years now. The key is to find a system. To find your system, demo different strategies...


nothing has inspired me in this biz as much as this letter. its just as if you were writing this letter to me. thank you very much. i dont understand why i make the mistakes i do but i have learnt a lot from this thread today. i am glad to confirm it can be done. i have just 500usd left. mini account. i can do it! i will.
  • #104
  • Dec 6, 2008 12:28am Dec 6, 2008 12:28am
Quoting tiago
ive been trading the forex market full-time for 3 years, im starting to hit high seven figure income this year.....Phorex Phreak

Remember---"cut your losses short and let your profits run" a la Van Tharp, of course you have to have the balls and mindset to go along with the golden rule of trading
tiago,

Are you still trading the Martingale system?


Topgun
"Success is not a fantasy, it's a formula." - MTI
  • #105
  • Edited 12:58am Dec 6, 2008 12:57am | Edited 12:58am
well do mock trading first...and by the way i'm runing an actual account and i must say that i'm proud of my trading....i'm 50%in profit from an actual amount....
A R M
  • #106
  • Dec 6, 2008 10:23am Dec 6, 2008 10:23am
topgun,

i have 6 EA's working right now and my bread and butter is my manual trading system...one of the EA's is a martingale system that has been running very successfully for the last year and a half, but i only use it for fun and to challenge myself, i dont have much money into it, my other EA's and manual trading system i have considerable amounts of money into which do very well using the golden rule of trading....hopes this answers all your questions topgun....

phorex phreak





Quoting Topgun_1
tiago,

Are you still trading the Martingale system?


Topgun
  • #107
  • Edited 7:40pm Dec 6, 2008 2:32pm | Edited 7:40pm
Some exercises in developing discipline (this is just like training for any major event).

Exercise 1 - You are only allowed one trade per day. You can trade a basket of currencies, but only one trade. Can you sit it out and wait, choose the very best time of the day to place your one trade and ride it to your target?

Exercise 2 - You are only allowed to trade for a maximum of 2 hours per day. When your 2 hours are done, switch off the computer and go do something else.

Exercise 3 - You are only allowed to trade a maximum of 20% of your account in any combination of trades. If you are demo trading and risking all on your available leverage, this is a recipe for disaster.

Exercise 4 - Use stops religiously. Obey them. Don't argue. If market tells you that you have it wrong, don't keep getting back on board in the direction of your bias. Take 10 minutes out to review the whole situation, let price settle and find its direction. If you then need to switch directions, be open to doing just that.

What kills new accounts is the belief that you can get rich quick just by working this thing hard. Every new trader experiences the high from fast profits at first, wants more, so keeps on trading around the clock with increasing higher and higher levels of risk. You have to cut that attitude off at the knees.

Put in consistent runs, day in, day out - make sure you are around for the long haul. Manage your risk, manage yourself. Keep the discipline tight.

If you can't walk away from this thing and leave it alone for periods of time, you have a problem - one that will only lead to losses.
  • #108
  • Dec 6, 2008 2:54pm Dec 6, 2008 2:54pm
Quoting tiago
topgun,

i have 6 EA's working right now and my bread and butter is my manual trading system...one of the EA's is a martingale system that has been running very successfully for the last year and a half, but i only use it for fun and to challenge myself, i dont have much money into it, my other EA's and manual trading system i have considerable amounts of money into which do very well using the golden rule of trading....hopes this answers all your questions topgun....

phorex phreak
tiago, thanks for the reply. I've noticed that you said you are making 7 figures in income per year through forex trading, so therefore I'm interested in how you trade. I see you are making money with 6 EA's, but I'm most interested in your "bread and butter" - your manual trading system. Is your manual trading system something I can find out more about somewhere? Or is it just a basic support & resistance, trendlines, and fibo style of trading? And if it is this basic S & R style of trading, what indicators do you use?


Topgun
"Success is not a fantasy, it's a formula." - MTI
  • #109
  • Dec 6, 2008 4:22pm Dec 6, 2008 4:22pm
Quoting Jade Gate
Some exercises in developing discipline (this is just like training for any major event).


If you can't walk away from this thing and leave it alone for periods of time, you have a problem - one that will only lead to loses.
Excellent post--all of it. It would be interesting to know how many people can actually do those few things.

One of the things I learned to do when I had trouble cutting losers and obeying my stops:
Walk away, even if it's only for a few minutes. Then come back and look at the chart with fresh eyes and ask myself, "If I wasn't in this trade, would I enter it now?" If the answer is no, then I've got no business in it. When we're in a bad trade, even a child would look at the chart and wonder, "What are you trying to do?"
  • #110
  • Dec 6, 2008 5:16pm Dec 6, 2008 5:16pm
I have to agree. Getting a fresh look at a trade and walking away for a little while is good. From my experience by not being able to walk away from the chart I would turn a good trade into a bad one...how.

I normally trade on the daily chart this is not a recommendation, it simply works form me. My entry is alligned with the 1H chart to gain more advantage and get in at the perfect time. My trouble is this. I would enter a trade that would do well and moves in my direction by 190pps I am in the money, right on the direction, and up by $2000 while this is great I am messing with this thing by not going away for a while and letting it move freely. I would get too emotional ...

Since I am trading on the daily, I have no business once I am in a trade going back to the 1 hur chart. This chart is simply to get in on a more tight position and it's not really a clear indication of the trend.

My mistake is simply looking at the 1 hur chart after entry and not leaving my trade along. I would see any signs of trouble if say I get to $2000 and down to $1800 profit on a trade and I would get to panic and say to myself I should get out and lock my profits.

In most cases, the down turn on the 1 hur chart is short lived. A trade I exited with 190 pps and neglected to follow my set up on the daily chart got to 900pps 2 days later.

So yes, leave the charts along. Once you enter a trade and it does what's supposed to do don't "overkill" technicals don't look at the Equity and start counting the Dollars. Suddently 2 grand on the table is all you can see in the entire world.

It takes more strength to stay in a trade an leave it along when it's doing well. You really have to be very strong to be able to have to courage to let your profits run. A wise thing to do is you move your stop to your entry and let the trade do it's thing. Never look at your equity and be tempted with the cash that you can get at a push of EXIT.

If you can't go away from a trade when it's doing well you could turn a great trade into a bad trade and we often don't have that chance. My direction on U.S CAD long in Nov. 2008 was entered at 1.2080 on Nov. 11th 2008 I keept looking at the chart when it hit 1.2290 and I could not leave it along. The daily chart looked great and the potential to hit 1.3020 looked possible. I looked at the 1 hr chart and the dips scared me and I got out at 1.2270 with $ 2000.00 had I left this trade alone and simply kept an eye on the daily chart which is where I always have my set ups and targets I would have been fine. US/CAD hit the target of 1.3020 3 days after my exit and I could have picked up well over 900pps.

I was right on everything except leaving the charts alone and walking away from it for a day. I had my stops set correct. I could have moved my stop to entry and left this thing along.

Cut your losses and let your profits run is easier said than done. The later is even harder. So don't count the cash in your account when a trade moves your way. $2000 EXIT on my U.S/CAD trade was a good day for me but I didn't know that I had a great trade at hand that rarely come in a trader's way. This came my way on Nov. 11th 2008 and let it go.


Sam
  • #111
  • Edited 6:16pm Dec 6, 2008 6:04pm | Edited 6:16pm
Hi Sam,

Swing trading (leaving a trade on overnight for several days) can be very profitable, but it also increases the risk profile considerably. Every trader needs to work a method that fits best with their own lifestyle needs and stress tolerance capacity. If I am in a trade and it looks good for a few days, I tighten my take profit stops and let it ride. But this is a rare occurence, because I like to sleep soundly. Swing trades magnify the risk considerably. Better to take profit off the table, lock it in, and re-enter again in the same direction. Take your bit and get out. Some say one needs to be able to let profits run, but I think there is not a lot of wisdom in doing this, because the nature of this beast is volatility (that's why it is so attractive - it's charm can also be its curse). My preferred trading style is to take profit and lock it in. Or to TP on half the trade and let the rest ride.

If someone hands you a load of cash, and you don't take it and stuff it in your pocket because you think they may just give you more if you leave your hand out, what do you think can happen? Two things, your hand will be bitten off for being greedy, or the profits sitting in your hand will be taken back. If your direction is right, you will have many opportunities to get back on board.

Forex is not like stocks, options, futures etc where you can trade safely from the daily charts. I use the daily, weekly, and 4H charts for background. Then the 1H and 30M charts for today's trend direction heads up. But then, I trade exclusively from price action on the 15M, 5M and especially the 1M charts. This baby is a roller coaster, you need to pick your moment to get on board very VERY carefully, and exit with equal care.

Take your bit and get out. Stay safe. That is my game plan and it works.
  • #112
  • Dec 6, 2008 6:05pm Dec 6, 2008 6:05pm
Quoting Picasam
$2000 EXIT on my U.S/CAD trade was a good day for me but I didn't know that I had a great trade at hand that rarely come in a trader's way. This came my way on Nov. 11th 2008 and let it go.


Sam
though not entirely in disagreement with u Sam I have a different perspective I would like to share. I scalp using the 15 min chart and regularly take 5 - 10 pips from much larger moves. I have absolutely no problem with this because

1. as you said the "great" trades are rare. I would rather take 190 pips ten times than have 9 breakevens for one 900 pip trade.

2. Your never going to get the whole move. The attempt to do so is greed - unnecessary and profit destroying. To beat yourself up about it afterwards is soul destroying.

to reach your profit objective and then sell your position to another trader, enabling them to also profit in what is a zero sum game, and be happy about the profits they got rather than the profit you missed is a very good mindset for overcoming one of the 2 great traders enemies - greed

Id like you to try taking this idea on board - it has been a real breakthrough for me. Psychology is more important than technique by a wide margin and it is the lack of attention to this that causes the failure rate in trading imho
BTC Return This Year: na
  • #113
  • Dec 6, 2008 11:32pm Dec 6, 2008 11:32pm
Quoting M.A.C.Doug
though not entirely in disagreement with u Sam I have a different perspective I would like to share. I scalp using the 15 min chart and regularly take 5 - 10 pips from much larger moves. I have absolutely no problem with this because

1. as you said the "great" trades are rare. I would rather take 190 pips ten times than have 9 breakevens for one 900 pip trade.

2. Your never going to get the whole move. The attempt to do so is greed - unnecessary and profit destroying. To beat yourself up about it afterwards is soul destroying.

to reach...
booinnnnngngngngng

bulls eye!
  • #114
  • Dec 6, 2008 11:35pm Dec 6, 2008 11:35pm
Quoting Jade Gate
If you can't walk away from this thing and leave it alone for periods of time, you have a problem - one that will only lead to losses.
that's a powerful statement - so true
  • #115
  • Dec 7, 2008 7:59am Dec 7, 2008 7:59am
I second the last posts whole heartedly...study the trade, your entry point etc to the best of your ability, size, set your stop loss (I use a tsl) if not too sure set a tp as well...then get in and let the trade run...you won't win them all, but if you let emotions get in the way...your own OR those of others' (like someone else watching the chart and going...oh @!]!! while your trade is on...) you will win far less...in fact 99% you will blow your account...in times of doubt, I always tell myself the target is increase the account balance..so if I'm not too sure of the situation (volatility or whatever) yet I still feel it's worth a shot... I'll reduce my size and put in a relatively tight tp (20 - 30 pips)...once I do that if it goes past it I take it as a lesson that i try to learn from but I never second guess myself..once you start doing that..again you're heading for a crash and burn..both economically and emotionally.

just my .02
Nihil inimicus quam sibi ipse Marcus Tullius Cicero
  • #116
  • Dec 7, 2008 3:39pm Dec 7, 2008 3:39pm
topgun,

it doesnt matter what entry techniques or indicators you use....the entry system you use is only 5% of the pie, position sizing and your mental toughness are the other 95%.....i trade a trend trading system and my success rate is 50%, but my winners far exceed my losers....thats the whole key and reflects the golden rule of trading.....hope this helps...phorex phreak



Quoting Topgun_1
tiago, thanks for the reply. I've noticed that you said you are making 7 figures in income per year through forex trading, so therefore I'm interested in how you trade. I see you are making money with 6 EA's, but I'm most interested in your "bread and butter" - your manual trading system. Is your manual trading system something I can find out more about somewhere? Or is it just a basic support & resistance, trendlines, and fibo style of trading? And if it is this basic S & R style of trading, what indicators do you use?


Topgun
  • #117
  • Dec 7, 2008 6:26pm Dec 7, 2008 6:26pm
Quoting Jade Gate
Hi Sam,



Forex is not like stocks, options, futures etc where you can trade safely from the daily charts.

Where, would you say, does something like Crude stand in relation to this level of volatility? i.e. Is Forex more "dangerous" than crude, about the same, or is Crude more "dangerous" than Forex?


Thanks,
Regards, Mike Still learning my trade.
  • #118
  • Dec 7, 2008 8:02pm Dec 7, 2008 8:02pm
Quoting Jade Gate
Hi Sam,

Forex is not like stocks, options, futures etc where you can trade safely from the daily charts. I use the daily, weekly, and 4H charts for background. Then the 1H and 30M charts for today's trend direction heads up. But then, I trade exclusively from price action on the 15M, 5M and especially the 1M charts. This baby is a roller coaster, you need to pick your moment to get on board very VERY carefully, and exit with equal care.

Take your bit and get out. Stay safe. That is my game plan and it works.
Words of the wisdom!!!
  • #119
  • Edited 2:12pm Dec 8, 2008 1:47pm | Edited 2:12pm
Quoting tiago
topgun,

it doesnt matter what entry techniques or indicators you use....the entry system you use is only 5% of the pie, position sizing and your mental toughness are the other 95%.....i trade a trend trading system and my success rate is 50%, but my winners far exceed my losers....thats the whole key and reflects the golden rule of trading.....hope this helps...phorex phreak

tiago,

Thanks for the advice. Or maybe I should say thanks for reminding me of something that I already knew but had gotten away from. The thing that I lose sight of from time to time -the most important thing in trading - is the psychological side of trading (discipline) and money mangement as well. Sometimes I get too focused on the system itself and end up forgetting that most important 95% part of trading.
Also, it's motivational to me to see that you only have a 50% success rate but yet you are very successful because your money mangement ensures that your winners far exceed your losers. It makes me think I can do the same if I used proper money management as you do. This would lessen the pressure for me to have a high win rate.

I hope you don't mind, but one more question: Do you compound your money on your trades? If so, are most of your stops relatively tight such as 50 pips or less? OR, do you not compound at all and instead trade regularly and take out your profits on a regular basis? In fact, these questions are for anyone here. I'm interested if most people here compound their profits or not.

Oops, sorry.... I guess technically that's more than "one question".


Topgun
"Success is not a fantasy, it's a formula." - MTI
  • #120
  • Dec 8, 2008 2:04pm Dec 8, 2008 2:04pm
Quoting Picasam
My direction on U.S CAD long in Nov. 2008 was entered at 1.2080 on Nov. 11th 2008 I keept looking at the chart when it hit 1.2290 and I could not leave it along. The daily chart looked great and the potential to hit 1.3020 looked possible. I looked at the 1 hr chart and the dips scared me and I got out at 1.2270 with $ 2000.00 had I left this trade alone and simply kept an eye on the daily chart which is where I always have my set ups and targets I would have been fine. US/CAD hit the target of 1.3020 3 days after my exit and I could have picked...
Sam,

I went to my FXDD Daily chart to look at your USD/CAD trade you mentioned in your post. You said in your post you entered long on Nov. 11th and you said, "US/CAD hit the target of 1.3020 3 days after my exit and I could have picked up well over 900 pps." Well, after looking at my chart, I did not see the price go up to 1.3020 - at anytime after Nov. 11th. The highest it got was 1.3006 on December 5th.

Does anyone else's chart show that the price never reached 1.3020 on the USD/CAD after Nov. 11th? Or is my chart the only chart in which the highest it got after Nov. 11th was 1.3006 on 12/5/08?

Sam, I'm not doubting your word - I'm just trying to figure out the situation.


Topgun
"Success is not a fantasy, it's a formula." - MTI
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