forex ain't hard | Forex Factory

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forex ain't hard

  • #1
  • First Post: Dec 3, 2008 1:39pm Dec 3, 2008 1:39pm
Trading isn't hard, but trading successfully is.

Any monkey can open orders and lose money and even win money (not earn money though). You earn money when you exercise discipline. If it's not hard to collect your money for the day then you might just have won a mini lottery. One thing is for sure. Luck in trading Forex does not hold.

I seem to read a lot of discouragement here on FF which pains me because in my early days of trading I learned quite a bit here. But I was willing to work to get where I am. It seems all to often traders want the quick fix for nothing. But our very nature of "I want it now and I want it easy" is what brought us to Forex in the first place. Our (traders in general) natural tendencies to think outside the box and search for new ideas is how most of us found this market.

The mere fact that we are willing to trade our money means that we do not like to operate like traditional business owners. Though to be successful in this arena we have to behave as though we are operating a business. Otherwise we'll just bounce to the next method that we think will make us money and Forex will just become another failed aspiration.

I want to encourage all newbies to paper/demo trade until they know how often their chosen system/strategy wins and loses. Successful systems do exist, but in order for a successful system to survive it must be applied with unerring discipline.

Discipline is what makes and breaks traders. Whether you believe this or not is what ultimately makes it a true statement.

Now to sound like I'm contradicting myself a bit. Each day of trading for me is not hard. But denying myself the impulse to trade when not in a trade is what makes it hard. Being disciplined is hard.

Can anyone prove that there is any single idea/action that is more important than exercising discipline?

Let's discuss...
  • #2
  • Dec 3, 2008 1:46pm Dec 3, 2008 1:46pm
Quoting blueace

Can anyone prove that there is any single idea/action that is more important than exercising discipline?

Let's discuss...
Can you PROVE that excercising discipline is the most important idea/action first?

Lets continue to discuss...

Leon
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #3
  • Dec 3, 2008 2:07pm Dec 3, 2008 2:07pm
yeah ...keep going
  • #4
  • Dec 3, 2008 2:07pm Dec 3, 2008 2:07pm
Quoting Leonlorenzo
Can you PROVE that excercising discipline is the most important idea/action first?

Lets continue to discuss...

Leon
Aha therein lies the heart of the matter. Discipline only provides results for those who follow it.

I can prove it to myself. I know for a fact that until I began to exercise discipline that I was an unsuccessful trader. Discipline made all the difference in my results. Removing discretion from my own methods and strategies allowed me to trade with much more confidence.

But that brings up another question. What systems/strategies are best served by discipline? I doubt any creator of any system would tell you that you would be better served by applying their system half-heartedly and whenever you felt like it. They would tell you that you must trade their rules all of the time. That would require discipline.

It seems to me that most traders are very fickle when it comes to "marrying" a system.
  • #5
  • Dec 3, 2008 2:12pm Dec 3, 2008 2:12pm
Agree! forex is not hard! However, A disciplined trader whom sticks to a particular approach, when that approach no longer produces positive pips, can pride himself all he wants in the soup line, " atleast I was disciplined to follow my method". I am not disagreeing with your take on discipline. To me, discipline is not the magic key to success in trading, What is? Well, spent last few decades personally trying to figure that out. As for luck, ooh how i do greatly appreciate that little blessing from time to time!
  • #6
  • Dec 3, 2008 2:22pm Dec 3, 2008 2:22pm
Quoting spok
Agree! forex is not hard! However, A disciplined trader whom sticks to a particular approach, when that approach no longer produces positive pips, can pride himself all he wants in the soap line, " atleast I was disciplined to follow my method".
That's a great point indeed. Trading yourself into oblivion just to say that one was "disciplined" is a very fine line. Which brings us to the specific system a trader is using. If a system is 50/50 and the RR is greater than 1:1 then it would stand to reason that being disciplined would result in a near constant equity growth.

Though on the flip side being disciplined with a system that only worked 10% of the time but had a 1:10 RR that would mean that you would experience extreme DDs just to prove you were disciplined.

So maybe being disciplined is most important to systems that have a good balance of success rate and RR.

I prefer a system that works at the very worst 44% of the time with at least a RR of 1:1.3
  • #7
  • Dec 3, 2008 2:27pm Dec 3, 2008 2:27pm
What if you have disciplined yourself in something that doesn't work but continue to follow it come whatever because you know no better?

Experience, education and flexibility will win every time. Just take a look at the great traders on this forum. Most would tell you they have a method that can be used with discretion. Not a system written in stone.
  • #8
  • Dec 3, 2008 2:36pm Dec 3, 2008 2:36pm
Quoting willf
What if you have disciplined yourself in something that doesn't work but continue to follow it come whatever because you know no better?

Experience, education and flexibility will win every time. Just take a look at the great traders on this forum. Most would tell you they have a method that can be used with discretion. Not a system written in stone.
That was the point I just made in my post above yours. There is no point in trading a system that does not work with discipline if the system in itself is flawed. Then the trader is just making the original problem worse.

So which comes first the chicken or the egg? Discipline or the system? The obvious answer is the system. Even if the system is discretionary discipline must be involved. If it's so discretionary that there are no rules then it's not a system at all. It's 100% on the shoulders of the trader. I'm not smarter than the markets so personally I can't trade that way.

You mentioned the "great traders" on the forum. I know who I think is great, but they may not be the same traders you think are great. If they're all making money doesn't that make them all great?
  • #9
  • Dec 3, 2008 2:38pm Dec 3, 2008 2:38pm
Is there really such a thing as a true blue profitable trading system which stands the test of time, year after year?? If there is, why worry about discipline? Hand the thing over to a broker with the instruction manuel and go fishing.
  • #10
  • Dec 3, 2008 2:47pm Dec 3, 2008 2:47pm
Quoting spok
Is there really such a thing as a true blue profitable trading system which stands the test of time, year after year?? If there is, why worry about discipline? Hand the thing over to a broker with the instruction manuel and go fishing.
Let's take the DIBS method for example. It's based on PA alone and no matter how many people trade it or know it; it can't be undone. But in order to trade it successfully over time you have to have the discipline to sit in front of the screen for very large periods of time. I don't have that sort of discipline so I choose not to trade systems like that.

The reason I "worry" about discipline as you phrased it; is it limits how often one can trade. The PA always bobbing about tempting new traders to jump in.

I don't hand my methods over to a broker because they have their best interests at heart and not my own. I only trade 4 nights a week and it only takes about 30 minutes each evening to set up my trades. I let the market come to me. If I'm wrong the market goes the other way. No harm no foul. But I know I can't tell what the market is doing in the present so I don' try to pretend to know by jumping in.

Plus I'm not a fisherman...so I spend my days doing other things.
  • #11
  • Dec 3, 2008 2:48pm Dec 3, 2008 2:48pm
Quoting blueace
You mentioned the "great traders" on the forum. I know who I think is great, but they may not be the same traders you think are great. If they're all making money doesn't that make them all great?
Not necessarily. Any monkey can open an order

The greats in my opinion are those that have stayed the course and can back up their claims. There are so many gob shites on here nowadays that jump up and down when they scalp 5 pips of the euro that maybe making money but haven't got a clue how they did it.
  • #12
  • Dec 3, 2008 2:52pm Dec 3, 2008 2:52pm
Quoting willf
Not necessarily. Any monkey can open an order

The greats in my opinion are those that have stayed the course and can back up their claims. There are so many gob shites on here nowadays that jump up and down when they scalp 5 pips of the euro that maybe making money but haven't got a clue how they did it.
Touche' I guess we're all monkies. haha

But didn't I also say that luck doesn't hold. The 5 pip scalpers will crash and burn eventually.
  • #13
  • Dec 3, 2008 6:13pm Dec 3, 2008 6:13pm
Proper capitalization is my vote. Without it you are screwed, and I believe the #1 reason most fail. Too many infomercials and caviar dreams for riches quickly.

The 1-2% "rule" gets squashed very quickly when newbs realize that after trade turns out profitable for xx days/hours they rake in a staggering $10 for the effort. So they ramp up the leverage(more for the less margin required).
"micros are for wimps" attitude and full lot crack enters their veins.

You know how the story ends of course. Trade BEGINS to go against them (which we call breathing room) and palms get sweaty and they get called. Now if they had stuck with their initial attitude of small and let it compound, trader would have added $10 more to the till.

over capitalized (psychology/emotions don't seem to play Freddy Kruger as much)
decent strategy (it has to fit your temperament/lifestyle)
discipline (Are you 100% certain on why you are about the hit the mouse... in AND out)
  • #14
  • Dec 3, 2008 6:20pm Dec 3, 2008 6:20pm
Quoting dennycrane
Proper capitalization is my vote....

Great points Denny. I absolutely agree about capitalization it is vitally important. Unless the trader has the discipline to trade with smaller lots (with a broker like Oanda where you can choose how small) then the full size lots DO become crack.

When the risk is only 1-2% then you're also right Freddy Kruger can't raise his ugly head.
  • #15
  • Dec 3, 2008 6:56pm Dec 3, 2008 6:56pm
traders just have to look in the mirror and be comfortable with the profits they are aspiring to,along with the risk at stake.

micros are a waste of time for ME. You can stand on the corner hailing cars for new pizza joint and get a guaranteed micro paycheck. I wanted more.

I blew 3 accounts searching for that quam.

Now i'm properly capitalized and can handle DD without wakin up in sweat.

get capitalized and the emotions will dissipate and you can focus on your trades and discipline.

I forgot to mention the people, without their contributions, my account would not compound

All the $300 I opened my account and gonna be rich next month crowd.

thank you
  • #16
  • Dec 3, 2008 7:02pm Dec 3, 2008 7:02pm
Denny I like how you think. Yes the $300 account start ups are what ultimately make up our paychecks.
  • #17
  • Dec 3, 2008 8:25pm Dec 3, 2008 8:25pm
Quoting blueace
Great points Denny. I absolutely agree about capitalization it is vitally important. Unless the trader has the discipline to trade with smaller lots (with a broker like Oanda where you can choose how small) then the full size lots DO become crack.

When the risk is only 1-2% then you're also right Freddy Kruger can't raise his ugly head.
You mean make the account huge - the bigger the better
That’s the basic idea of each trader
  • #18
  • Last Post: Dec 3, 2008 8:28pm Dec 3, 2008 8:28pm
Quoting goodjulie
You mean make the account huge - the bigger the better
That’s the basic idea of each trader
No my point is that no matter what the size of your account only risk 1-2% maximum per trade.

Of course we're all trying to make our accounts huge.
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