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MB trading - no dealing desk?

  • #1
  • First Post: Nov 21, 2006 2:50am Nov 21, 2006 2:50am
I saw that MBTrading offers mini account and claims to have no dealing desk.

For me, no dealing desk means that you have to trade a full 100K lot because that is the minimum size available on interbank market.

Then I asked them how it is possible to offer minis without a dealing desk and here is the answer I got:

"We do not use a dealing desk at all. The commission fees are the same for all of our accounts. The way we have it setup to trade mini's is proprietary information and I am not able to disclose it, I am sorry. "

strange isn't it?
  • #2
  • Nov 21, 2006 2:53am Nov 21, 2006 2:53am
I'm using MB Trading and it's working great!

They have a fixed fee instead of PIP spread.

Their application is not something I like, but you can't have it all..
  • #3
  • Nov 21, 2006 2:53am Nov 21, 2006 2:53am
Quoting jlpi
I saw that MBTrading offers mini account and claims to have no dealing desk.

For me, no dealing desk means that you have to trade a full 100K lot because that is the minimum size available on interbank market.

Then I asked them how it is possible to offer minis without a dealing desk and here is the answer I got:

"We do not use a dealing desk at all. The commission fees are the same for all of our accounts. The way we have it setup to trade mini's is proprietary information and I am not able to disclose it, I am sorry. "

strange isn't it?
There is a many many posts here on FF covering that topic. check it out with a search.
Profit is where readiness meets Opportunity
  • #4
  • Edited 4:52am Nov 21, 2006 4:39am | Edited 4:52am
Beware of MB/EFX. There is no chart offered and you are unable to get their historical quote online. That means they have a chance to manipulate the historical quote against you in case a dispute happened. For example, your EUR/USD short trade got stopped out at: 1.2855. So you refer to other brokers historical quote (as MB have no chart for that), the highest bid/ask you can find is 1.2847/49. Then you call helpdesk, they will probably say due to spreads widen, so the quote become 1.2847/56, you got stopped out. When another customer call, they can say the quote is 1.2849/57, who knows whether which is true? The point is, you have to rely on what they said and not the hard facts eg a public historical chart which is not so easy to manipulate. Even if they provide chart in the future, unless true bid/ask can be displayed from the chart, there is a chance they can manipulate the "ask" price too. As most chart can only show bid price and the spreads is not fix. means you are unable to derive the ask price from bid price on the chart.
  • #5
  • Nov 21, 2006 7:03am Nov 21, 2006 7:03am
FXFEI,

You make some interesting points. Anything is possible. Ask the former employees and shareholders of ENRON. Why don't you ask Justin, the rep from EFX who has a thread to answer/promote EFX. We would all appreciate it.

Thank You
All 4 1 and 1 4 All
  • #6
  • Nov 21, 2006 7:08am Nov 21, 2006 7:08am
Quoting fxfei
Beware of MB/EFX. There is no chart offered and you are unable to get their historical quote online. That means they have a chance to manipulate the historical quote against you in case a dispute happened. For example, your EUR/USD short trade got stopped out at: 1.2855. So you refer to other brokers historical quote (as MB have no chart for that), the highest bid/ask you can find is 1.2847/49. Then you call helpdesk, they will probably say due to spreads widen, so the quote become 1.2847/56, you got stopped out. When another customer call, they can say the quote is 1.2849/57, who knows whether which is true? The point is, you have to rely on what they said and not the hard facts eg a public historical chart which is not so easy to manipulate. Even if they provide chart in the future, unless true bid/ask can be displayed from the chart, there is a chance they can manipulate the "ask" price too. As most chart can only show bid price and the spreads is not fix. means you are unable to derive the ask price from bid price on the chart.
This is no diffrent then trading with a broker who offer currenex platofrm.
If I Go Broke Trying Then I Will die happy.
  • #7
  • Nov 21, 2006 7:09am Nov 21, 2006 7:09am
Is this all conjecture, or has this happened to you? please advise.



Quoting fxfei
Beware of MB/EFX. There is no chart offered and you are unable to get their historical quote online. That means they have a chance to manipulate the historical quote against you in case a dispute happened. For example, your EUR/USD short trade got stopped out at: 1.2855. So you refer to other brokers historical quote (as MB have no chart for that), the highest bid/ask you can find is 1.2847/49. Then you call helpdesk, they will probably say due to spreads widen, so the quote become 1.2847/56, you got stopped out. When another customer call, they can say the quote is 1.2849/57, who knows whether which is true? The point is, you have to rely on what they said and not the hard facts eg a public historical chart which is not so easy to manipulate. Even if they provide chart in the future, unless true bid/ask can be displayed from the chart, there is a chance they can manipulate the "ask" price too. As most chart can only show bid price and the spreads is not fix. means you are unable to derive the ask price from bid price on the chart.
  • #8
  • Nov 21, 2006 9:51am Nov 21, 2006 9:51am
Quoting jlpi
I saw that MBTrading offers mini account and claims to have no dealing desk.

For me, no dealing desk means that you have to trade a full 100K lot because that is the minimum size available on interbank market.

Then I asked them how it is possible to offer minis without a dealing desk and here is the answer I got:

"We do not use a dealing desk at all. The commission fees are the same for all of our accounts. The way we have it setup to trade mini's is proprietary information and I am not able to disclose it, I am sorry. "

strange isn't it?
I asked this same question to Justin on the EFX Broker thread, and you can check there for his answer. In essence, he basically said that although 100,000 is the industry standard size, banks are able to trade 10,000, and even 1,000 lots. Justin said that the banks in their network have agreed to trade in 10,000 lots, and that some, but not all, will also fill 1,000 lots.

Also, I think that fxfei should address his (or her) concerns directly to Justin for an answer, and not make conjectures as to how it could be possible to rip-off clients.

All the best,

Michael
Michael fxgorilla
  • #9
  • Dec 3, 2006 1:36pm Dec 3, 2006 1:36pm
[quote=jlpi
Then I asked them how it is possible to offer minis without a dealing desk and here is the answer I got:

"We do not use a dealing desk at all. The commission fees are the same for all of our accounts. The way we have it setup to trade mini's is proprietary information and I am not able to disclose it, I am sorry. "

strange isn't it?[/QUOTE]

==============================================

as with any ECN, while they may indeed have seperate agreements with banks they also "gang" orders -- only need 10 minis to make an order !

enjoy and trade well

mp
  • #10
  • Dec 4, 2006 12:12pm Dec 4, 2006 12:12pm
I dont' think it is difficult to find out. On EFX Group's website, they say "For example, on our ECN, we allow our customers to place and execute orders against each other at increments down to the tenth of a pip."

The address is: http://www.efxgroup.com/about-STP-ECN-definitions.html
  • #11
  • Dec 5, 2006 1:14am Dec 5, 2006 1:14am
Quote
I dont' think it is difficult to find out. On EFX Group's website, they say "For example, on our ECN, we allow our customers to place and execute orders against each other at increments down to the tenth of a pip."

OK thanks.
Anyway it's strange that the MBT support says that they cannot disclose the information if it is in EFX web site !
  • #12
  • Dec 5, 2006 7:07am Dec 5, 2006 7:07am
having been extremely interested in MBT/EFX because of its integration with my quotetracker charts and system, i find that one cannot hold a long and a short position in the same currency !

for me, where i may hold a core position long, but want to flip the rises and dips of the currency intraday, this is completely untenable --- it means i have to sell my long position before i can then go short. It also removes the ability to "hedge" a position, should i find myself in that situation.

unfortunately, i have not investigated the tenth of a pip situation, because of the above outstanding fault with their trading system.

for some, it may be a great broker (i like the ECN approach), but be aware of a glaring fault int thier executions !

enjoy and trade well

mp
  • #13
  • Dec 5, 2006 7:29am Dec 5, 2006 7:29am
Anyway for the moment MB Trading is a no go for me because they offer only accounts in USD and as I am not living in US I am definitely not interested. (imagine how much I would have lost just making a deposit, if I would have open an account in USD one month ago !!)
  • #14
  • Dec 5, 2006 7:58am Dec 5, 2006 7:58am
Quoting mparker
having been extremely interested in MBT/EFX because of its integration with my quotetracker charts and system, i find that one cannot hold a long and a short position in the same currency !

for me, where i may hold a core position long, but want to flip the rises and dips of the currency intraday, this is completely untenable --- it means i have to sell my long position before i can then go short. It also removes the ability to "hedge" a position, should i find myself in that situation.

unfortunately, i have not investigated the tenth of a pip situation, because of the above outstanding fault with their trading system.

for some, it may be a great broker (i like the ECN approach), but be aware of a glaring fault int thier executions !

enjoy and trade well

mp
True, you can not open a 2 positions in opposite directions on the same currency at the same time in the same account, but I know for a fact that EFX Group allows hedging like this by opening 2 linked accounts, and then going long in one and short in the other.

All the best,

Michael
Michael fxgorilla
  • #15
  • Dec 7, 2006 1:30am Dec 7, 2006 1:30am
I'm currently using MBT and just sent a 1/100 ($1000) lot and it was accepted. It works. No, you can't have long and short same currency on same account, need to have 2 linked accounts.

I too live in Europe and am looking for a NDD broker but so far I haven't found any as good as founded in the US. I think Oanda does provide account held in Euros, in addition to dollars. Can anyone vouch this claim?
  • #16
  • Mar 7, 2007 3:32am Mar 7, 2007 3:32am
i've tried mbtrading platform for several weeks, with their demo account. For now I only live trade using Northfinance (mt4).

As my observation, MBtrading is good for scalper, but not really useful for news trader. I got some difficulties placing an order before the news (I use trapping method, put an order several pip above and below current price). in this case, my order was not executed (it's only accepted, bot not live). As you may have known, when you place an order in MBt platform, your order will through 3 stage, first, is accepted, 2nd is Live, and 3rd is Executed (when your order meet the price)

also I ever facing a situation where the price quote suddenly stopped, while the price quote on my MT4 showing a drastical change (shorting almost 35 pips). And suddenly the price has changed into the last price as shown in my MT4.I put a short order that time, and my order wasn't executed at all

I've tried so many broker platform, from those all trial i found that only northfinance and migfx having no problem with server connection. Since I'm a swing trader, I think it's better to keep using one of those 2 broker.

this is only a subjective thought based on my own observation
  • #17
  • Mar 8, 2007 2:16pm Mar 8, 2007 2:16pm
Quoting ganesi
As my observation, MBtrading is good for scalper, but not really useful for news trader. I got some difficulties placing an order before the news (I use trapping method, put an order several pip above and below current price). in this case, my order was not executed (it's only accepted, bot not live). As you may have known, when you place an order in MBt platform, your order will through 3 stage, first, is accepted, 2nd is Live, and 3rd is Executed (when your order meet the price)

also I ever facing a situation where the price quote suddenly stopped, while the price quote on my MT4 showing a drastical change (shorting almost 35 pips). And suddenly the price has changed into the last price as shown in my MT4.I put a short order that time, and my order wasn't executed at all

I've tried so many broker platform, from those all trial i found that only northfinance and migfx having no problem with server connection. Since I'm a swing trader, I think it's better to keep using one of those 2 broker.

this is only a subjective thought based on my own observation
=============================================

as an active user of both MT4 and the MB platform, MB is EXCELLENT for the swing trader, and because of the commission structure can be not so hot for the true scalper !

if youre only using the demo, understand that they do not allow your trades to mix with realtime trades, most especially during "news" events, so what youre seeing on the level 2 is REAL trading going on, but your trades are IGNORED, because youre only on a demo !

if you were really using the platform with a live account, you wouldnt see that situation, as long as your bid was acceptable.

Your problem is because its the demo !

enjoy and trade well

mp
  • #18
  • Mar 8, 2007 2:25pm Mar 8, 2007 2:25pm
I agree, because of their commission-structure scalping is prohibitive on MBT/EFX. For example, if you are gunning for 5 pips, on GBP/USD a whopping 40% of your gains would go MBT, on USD/JPY its sill some 25%. A scalper needs low commissions, a broker would eat you alive with such a trading style.
  • #19
  • Mar 8, 2007 2:32pm Mar 8, 2007 2:32pm
24, I need to debunk this.

It's not a fixed fee...It's a %-lot size fee.

They charge $5 for every $100K you trade. If you trade the GBPUSD, your commission will actually be higher 100K GBP = $193K which means your commission to open a position in the GBPUSD is closer to $10. The commission is charged again when you close a position, effectively making MBT's spread almost 3 (most of the time) pips on the GBPUSD (which is still excellent).

With that said, you can trade within the spread, effectively becoming the market maker, so you can imagine that often times spreads go down to 0...but you still have to pay that commission.

Anyway, I still think they're a great broker...

Quoting 24hincome
I'm using MB Trading and it's working great!

They have a fixed fee instead of PIP spread.

Their application is not something I like, but you can't have it all..
  • #20
  • Mar 8, 2007 2:37pm Mar 8, 2007 2:37pm
Again, this is a total misconception. I found the BEST scalping opportunities are on MBT.

With the amount of liquidity, the speed of their platform (no requotes, and very little slippage), the ability to trade within the spread...it's a scalper's paradise. The commission equates to the spread...and the spreads on the highest moving pairs is virtually zero...maybe 1 pip most of the time.

If you're "gunning" for pips on a regular platform, not only do you have to deal with slippage, but you have to wait for the movement to clear the spread before you could make any money.

So, make sure you get your facts straight...

Remember, a scalper's greatest asset is a fast platform and the tightest spreads. I'm not sure you can go any lower than MBT, to be honest.

EURUSD is usually 0-1 pips most normal trading hours...and even so, you can make the spread 1 (or less) by placing a limit order within the spread. With the commissions, it's about a 1.5 pip spread...that's about as low as you can go (except maybe with DUKASCOPY).


Quoting shrike
I agree, because of their commission-structure scalping is prohibitive on MBT/EFX. For example, if you are gunning for 5 pips, on GBP/USD a whopping 40% of your gains would go MBT, on USD/JPY its sill some 25%. A scalper needs low commissions, a broker would eat you alive with such a trading style.
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