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  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 21, 2004 2:49pm Jul 21, 2004 2:49pm
is it just something to catch your attention and your moeny??

L
  • #2
  • Jul 21, 2004 3:02pm Jul 21, 2004 3:02pm
There are a bunch of people here testing out some of them to
figure out which ones work and which don't.
Bob/autofx
  • #3
  • Jul 21, 2004 3:22pm Jul 21, 2004 3:22pm
The name you gave to this thread is one of The Big Questions.

It will be a while before mainstream suit-wearing financial pros admit to the
viability of automatic trading.

Probably never. No one likes to think they can be replaced by machines,
and they'll fight to the finish to keep their jobs.

Even guys like Alexander Elder, who, judging by his bold statements
should be a self-sustaining trader, still has his psychiatry day job
and sells a ton of junk on his web site http://www.elder.com/.
He charges $300 bucks per hour for personal trading consultations!

He says in Come Into My Trading room that automatic trading
is fundamentally flawed, without giving anything but a very silly reason
why he thinks so.

And has anyone seen what he says about forex trading in that book?

This guy is as big a fraud as anyone.
Bob/autofx
  • #4
  • Jul 22, 2004 4:29am Jul 22, 2004 4:29am
are my bills paid?
Relax and be happy.
  • #5
  • Jul 23, 2004 10:28am Jul 23, 2004 10:28am
Quoting autofx
The name you gave to this thread is one of The Big Questions.

It will be a while before mainstream suit-wearing financial pros admit to the
viability of automatic trading.

Probably never. No one likes to think they can be replaced by machines,
and they'll fight to the finish to keep their jobs.

Even guys like Alexander Elder, who, judging by his bold statements
should be a self-sustaining trader, still has his psychiatry day job
and sells a ton of junk on his web site http://www.elder.com/.
He charges $300 bucks per hour for personal trading consultations!

He says in Come Into My Trading room that automatic trading
is fundamentally flawed, without giving anything but a very silly reason
why he thinks so.

And has anyone seen what he says about forex trading in that book?

This guy is as big a fraud as anyone.
Gee Autofx,
I can see that you are as knowledgable about medicine as you are about alot of things!...... Maybe he likes continuing his practice and feels an obligation to his patients? Nah, your too smart for that!
  • #6
  • Mar 6, 2007 5:54pm Mar 6, 2007 5:54pm
Quoting merlin
are my bills paid?
So it works for you?

Thanks
  • #7
  • Mar 6, 2007 5:58pm Mar 6, 2007 5:58pm
The thing with automated systems is this. They tend to work good in one type of market, ranging or trending. When the market switches up on you, they tend to lose their 'lust' if you will. In other words, they can't be right all the time. When their wrong, it seems that most people have found this out, their really wrong. I think you would be better off learning everything about the markets and then trade for yourself. That, to me, is much better than spending a lot of cash on something that will only work some of the time. Good luck.
I dream, therefore I become.
  • #8
  • Mar 6, 2007 6:30pm Mar 6, 2007 6:30pm
I agree with Mike W.

People spend too much time designing/studying/analyzing black box or semi-automated systems where they would be much better off learning to actually trade and read the charts.
  • #9
  • Mar 6, 2007 6:36pm Mar 6, 2007 6:36pm
mike w: While your statement may be true for shorter time frames, I believe for longer time frames, a good automated system would perform well for any market condition over the long run depending on the indicator(s) used, how well the system is programmed, and money management. For example, add a 200 EMA on a daily eurusd chart and look at the signals (long above the EMA, short below the EMA) for the last few years.



Quoting mike w
The thing with automated systems is this. They tend to work good in one type of market, ranging or trending. When the market switches up on you, they tend to lose their 'lust' if you will. In other words, they can't be right all the time. When their wrong, it seems that most people have found this out, their really wrong. I think you would be better off learning everything about the markets and then trade for yourself. That, to me, is much better than spending a lot of cash on something that will only work some of the time. Good luck.
  • #10
  • Mar 6, 2007 7:36pm Mar 6, 2007 7:36pm
Quoting WTB
I agree with Mike W.

People spend too much time designing/studying/analyzing black box or semi-automated systems where they would be much better off learning to actually trade and read the charts.
So if I have an automated FX system that automatically generates over 200 pips a month of profits while I am sleeping or playing golf that's not good ???

"Hard" money is better than easy money now, since when ?? :surprised
  • #11
  • Mar 6, 2007 8:09pm Mar 6, 2007 8:09pm
Quoting autofx
The name you gave to this thread is one of The Big Questions.

It will be a while before mainstream suit-wearing financial pros admit to the
viability of automatic trading.

Probably never. No one likes to think they can be replaced by machines,
and they'll fight to the finish to keep their jobs.

Even guys like Alexander Elder, who, judging by his bold statements
should be a self-sustaining trader, still has his psychiatry day job
and sells a ton of junk on his web site http://www.elder.com/.
He charges $300 bucks per hour for personal trading consultations!

He says in Come Into My Trading room that automatic trading
is fundamentally flawed, without giving anything but a very silly reason
why he thinks so.

And has anyone seen what he says about forex trading in that book?

This guy is as big a fraud as anyone.
I read Elder's books and, like many authors these days (hint hint), he does not present a shred of evidence to support his point of view and trading ideas/systems.

And of course not a single backtest in his books. Oh no Sir, all these authors have never heard of Omega Trade Station or Wealth Lab or Metatrader.

If someone comes to me and asks me if I want to start a business with him, the first question I should ask is : "How much money can I make per year?"
Then I would want to know how much money similar businesses are making in the neighborhood. Any normal person would do the same thing.

But when it comes to FX Trading, it seems that the readers are ready to believe ANYTHING an author is saying, without even questionning the profitability (if any) of the methods described in the book, even though, in both cases (starting a business and FX Trading), we are still talking about making (or losing) money !

Amazing.

Personnally if I cannot find any backtest on a book, I simply return it to the Barnes and Noble store for a refund, simple as that. From now on, If an author cannot show me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that his system is TRULY making money, then adios amigo, back to the bookstore.
  • #12
  • Mar 7, 2007 3:56am Mar 7, 2007 3:56am
Quoting WTB
I agree with Mike W.

People spend too much time designing/studying/analyzing black box or semi-automated systems where they would be much better off learning to actually trade and read the charts.
I don't think it is incompatible (except if it is a black box) because usually the systems are not blackboxes but just a defined strategy that has been implemented.
The time spend for the actual coding is very small compare to the time of analysis. And the analysis should be the same for manual or automatic systems.
Automatic trading give you tools to analyse quicker the strategies in the past but also in the future. Because it will require much more effort to test a trading system manually I think.
  • #13
  • Mar 12, 2007 8:49am Mar 12, 2007 8:49am
Quoting mike w
The thing with automated systems is this. They tend to work good in one type of market, ranging or trending. When the market switches up on you, they tend to lose their 'lust' if you will. In other words, they can't be right all the time. When their wrong, it seems that most people have found this out, their really wrong. I think you would be better off learning everything about the markets and then trade for yourself. That, to me, is much better than spending a lot of cash on something that will only work some of the time. Good luck.
You describe the behavior of many predictive-type systems.

You are obviously not familiiar with "equity pop" techniques.

One simply needs to know how to book profits faster than losers can accumulate, and close the losers when it is time to do so.

We have systems that work in ALL market conditions. If you don't believe this is possible, that's your issue, not ours.

"...learning everything about the markets..." is a very silly concept. No one can know everything about the markets, because so much is unknowable. And once you start to think you know a lot, you start to think your current trade MUST be right, and you don't know understand that you should instead be focusing on booking enough profits to cover any trade that turns into a big loser.

Most of the trading world will remain stuck in the mindset exhibited by the person I quote above.
Bob/autofx
  • #14
  • Mar 12, 2007 10:24am Mar 12, 2007 10:24am
Quoting autofx
We have systems that work in ALL market conditions.
That's not entirely true, because technically trading systems do not work under ALL market conditions, they simply make MORE money when they are winning than when they are losing.

Designing a trading system that truly and automatically adapts itself to different market conditions (trend AND range market) is extremely difficult and remains the ultimate trader's dream.
  • #15
  • Oct 25, 2009 10:48am Oct 25, 2009 10:48am
Does automated trading or robot work for a beginner trader like me..??? , I am not an automated forex software or system user, i do believe with an an accurate analysis, reading the price action, checkout the pattern, control the emotion, etc, and one thing if those software or the robot or the EA are working really well for them and can make huge pips why they sell it..??? why they don't use it for their self and make tons or billions bucks..??? they need to collect hundreds bucks by selling the system for what..??? they make tons of money already right..with the ads picture in caribbean or on the cruise..and some testimonials for sure if the system is a money maker machine..LOL

They can build a nice house in st Martin, riding new Jaguar and life like Donald Thrump, so for what to sell an automatic trading robot...LOL..
It's Designed and Balance
  • #16
  • Oct 22, 2019 5:15pm Oct 22, 2019 5:15pm
Quoting FXTerminator
{quote} I read Elder's books and, like many authors these days (hint hint), he does not present a shred of evidence to support his point of view and trading ideas/systems.... bookstore.
Yeah!!!

Who can't trade - teach.

Look at Yohay here....


Elder.... I remember him .... Talking about Gann and Elliott.
Same whacky craziness
Beware of robber banks (RB), bad advisors.
  • #17
  • Oct 22, 2019 9:41pm Oct 22, 2019 9:41pm
I prefer trade myself,don't believe that stupid EA
  • #18
  • Edited 8:11pm Oct 23, 2019 7:48pm | Edited 8:11pm
I tried for several years to code a "trend following system" to no avail. While I am definitely NOT a programmer I did discover that in order to get the darn thing to work the way you want it to... you must program it to "think".

While I am not an expert I finally discovered the fastest and most efficient computer program was the one between my ears. And all I had to do was delete the part about fear and greed in my own thinking.

In the end this proved far easier and more effective than learning to teach a machine to think. The lesson: Learn to do it manually first. Then learn to program. By the time you're done with step 1 you won't need step 2.
@xxxx§|[::::::::::::::::>
  • #19
  • Edited 11:51pm Oct 24, 2019 11:28pm | Edited 11:51pm
Quoting DonPato
I tried for several years to code a "trend following system" to no avail. While I am definitely NOT a programmer I did discover that in order to get the darn thing to work the way you want it to... you must program it to "think". While I am not an expert I finally discovered the fastest and most efficient computer program was the one between my ears. And all I had to do was delete the part about fear and greed in my own thinking. In the end this proved far easier and more effective than learning to teach a machine to think. The lesson: Learn to...
... never force a bot to "think", instead Youre the one ... lol
...want it most but use it worst!
  • #20
  • Oct 27, 2019 2:44pm Oct 27, 2019 2:44pm
if you want to survive as a trader in 2019.. automation is a must IMO

but feel free to trade manually who cares afterall
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