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bad luck or manipulation ?

  • #21
  • Nov 9, 2008 4:08pm Nov 9, 2008 4:08pm
Important thread and great replies.

Thread starter: It is hard to accept
what is being said. But, we have to
stop playing the blame game if we
expect to succeed at this.
  • #22
  • Nov 9, 2008 5:06pm Nov 9, 2008 5:06pm
This is MT4 we are talking about, the most manipulative forex software there is and none of you are even giving him the benefit of the doubt???
  • #23
  • Nov 9, 2008 5:08pm Nov 9, 2008 5:08pm
Its a hard lesson and from what i gather your letting your emotions trade for you instead of a plan for market movements take a step back and watch for a while look at the trends see how the flow is going then execute IF there is a tradeable set up if not stay out of the way.
  • #24
  • Nov 9, 2008 6:17pm Nov 9, 2008 6:17pm
Aluminium hat is a must, I never trade without mine on, its crucial otherwise the earths electrostatic field will make you buy when you should really sell and visaversa, important you must connect a nine volt battery +ve terminal to the hat and the minus terminal to your little pinky, crocodile clips are not advised, they get a little sore after a while. If your in doubt pinky is your toe not the other pinkey.

Now your in business, the electromagnetic fields generated by the magnetosphere are now not effecting you at all, you are in the zone, now get out your credit card and purchase some good books on trading, money management. Until they arrive use the force trading method as used by Obi wan himself and feel the market, until your trading books arrive only demo account, watch as you blow account after account chasing the market, all the time you are learning, now close your eyes and trade use the force, even with my eyes closed I can feel the waves of emotion pulling the market up and down...can you feel it too.

Do this for a month every day on a test account, watching as it always fails now my friend study your trading books hard and learn, the markets will eat you alive unless like anything you work hard at it, trading is not easy money, I could have got a degree in the time it took to learn how to trade.

Study, study and study some more, there is no easy path except hard, hard, frustrating work, the market is the hardest thing to master because it is not the market you have to beat it is yourself, the market is only offering opportunities to you all the time, you have to decide how to filter the good opportunities from the bad ones. The market does not know you exist and it does not care, you are the one riding it not the other way round, if the market rides you it will crush you without a second thought, as the learned traders here said let it come to you, do not ever chase it.

A good book is Dynamic Trader by Robert Minor a real trader, read his book from cover to cover, trade the 1H chart min time frame and then demo and account until you can make consistant money every month, then my friend give it to your broker big time.

Smalldog
  • #25
  • Nov 9, 2008 6:17pm Nov 9, 2008 6:17pm
There is a very simple way to settle this, instead of pointless speculation of broker manipulation. Believe me, no one is singling out your orders and trading against you. I only ever see newbies make such claims, which should probably tell you something. I'm not trying to be harsh, but this is something that you need to get over quickly if you want to begin to trade profitably.

Anyway, if you are still not convinced by the numerous replies in the thread, simply do this: download another charting platform (MT4 with another broker, or try Oanda if you mistrust MT4 for some reason) and compare the data for the periods that you traded. If things are off by a few pips, it is simply a minor feed difference and you can assume no manipulation; if, however, it is drastically different than your original broker, then you may have a cause for concern.

Best,

Chris
  • #26
  • Nov 9, 2008 6:17pm Nov 9, 2008 6:17pm
I have a mt4 demo with alpari uk and I trade live with oanda, and sometimes I wonder if there's manipulation, but both always have the same price with no unusual spikes on either, I have also had other demos and I haven't noticed anything on those so I came to this conclusion...either they all have had the same price feed and some bank somewhere knows where all the orders are (stop hunting) which I think is unlikely OR I was chasing trades and getting in late. I decided I was getting in late and now I wait for the trade to come to me with much better results. The best thing about waiting for the trade for me is that I don't get "stuck" in a trade near as often, I don't have to wait for that trade to come around or take the loss, and I usually go into profit pretty quick AND I set a stop at 1 pip profit and let the trade go, moving the stop myself as it goes along. this alone has saved me countless hours of worry

I still wonder sometimes though
  • #27
  • Nov 9, 2008 6:37pm Nov 9, 2008 6:37pm
Great post piptechnician , that would prove it beyond doubt, I think Artic4X's poster sums it up, I gonna keep a picture of that on my wall
  • #28
  • Nov 9, 2008 7:52pm Nov 9, 2008 7:52pm
fuck bro,
if u think the price will go up, then sell.... if you think its gonna go down, then buy..... lol? don't worry about it mate, it happens to all of us, even n00bs like me... ? im in the same boat as you, fingers crossed and hope this damn boat doesnt sink again
  • #29
  • Nov 9, 2008 8:16pm Nov 9, 2008 8:16pm
webforex,

You never mentioned what time frame these events are taking place. Are we talking seconds, minutes, or hours?

You never mentioned what currency pair your're trading. Is this happening against all pairs? If it's illiquid, you can certainly be manipulated. NZD comes to mind.

Also, it would be helpful to know what you're looking at on your chart to determine your buys and sells.

If you feel you're being manipulated, switch to currency futures instead of cash. Or at least look at a futures chart along side a forex chart. If the movements coincide between cash and futures, chances are it's not manipulation against you. Manipulation as a whole, maybe, but not against you individually. Electronic futures offers a centralized marketplace. You're not placing orders against one dealer.

Also, in your chart, insert two moving averages. One a 4 or 5 period moving average of the open (color this red), the other a 4 or 5 period moving average of the close (color this blue). Follow this for a while. When the blue line crosses above the red, chances are the trend will follow up. When the red line crosses above the blue, chances are the trend will follow down.

Compare that methodology to the signals you use. You might find that you've been fighting the trend.

Carl
  • #30
  • Edited 4:11am Nov 10, 2008 3:57am | Edited 4:11am
ok guys.

I admit that my skills are not that good.

I will try harder.

What I sometimes observe is : when market trend is on my side, the figures went very slow. when market trend is not on my side , the figures jumped like crazy.
  • #31
  • Nov 10, 2008 6:43am Nov 10, 2008 6:43am
Quoting smalldog2
Aluminium hat is a must, I never trade without mine on, its crucial otherwise the earths electrostatic field will make you buy when you should really sell and visaversa, important you must connect a nine volt battery +ve terminal to the hat and the minus terminal to your little pinky, crocodile clips are not advised, they get a little sore after a while. If your in doubt pinky is your toe not the other pinkey.

Now your in business, the electromagnetic fields generated by the magnetosphere are now not effecting you at all, you are in the zone, now get out your credit card and purchase some good books on trading, money management. Until they arrive use the force trading method as used by Obi...
Indeed. Demo, until you make consistent returns and then go live... oh wait... it's not the same? OH right! Now there is real money on the line and you can't explain why your heart is pounding and your blood is turning ice cold. That demo experience didn't quite prep you for that did it... and you still blow your account!


Demo trading...

1) will give you a false sense of hope.

2) is absolutely useless if you are trading long term. Who said you have to trade the 1H time frame? Why not place one good trade a year?

There are so many different ways to trade!
  • #32
  • Nov 10, 2008 1:56pm Nov 10, 2008 1:56pm
Quoting webforex
I place buy order.

The pips went down 15 pips and moving down.

I stopped the order , quickly place a sell order.

The pips started to go up non- stop after I place a sell order.

Then I stop the sell order. I place a buy order. The pips started to go down again.

The above happens many many times.

so many times that make me...

Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas will provide all sorts of answers.
Headline: USD drops due to news of USD dropping!
  • #33
  • Nov 11, 2008 9:42am Nov 11, 2008 9:42am
Quoting fxterrapin
Indeed. Demo, until you make consistent returns and then go live... oh wait... it's not the same? OH right! Now there is real money on the line and you can't explain why your heart is pounding and your blood is turning ice cold. That demo experience didn't quite prep you for that did it... and you still blow your account!


Demo trading...

1) will give you a false sense of hope.

2) is absolutely useless if you are trading long term. Who said you have to trade the 1H time frame? Why not place one good trade a year?

There are so many...
Indeed demo trading is the worst..lol
  • #34
  • Nov 12, 2008 5:33pm Nov 12, 2008 5:33pm
Quoting efx001
Indeed demo trading is the worst..lol
Really?? so...what will you suggest then guys?. Forget about traning with a demo account and go straight to the black hole? start blowing the live account? That's is not a good advice folks. but anyways, i'm not an expert yet but i'm becoming one.
  • #35
  • Nov 12, 2008 8:59pm Nov 12, 2008 8:59pm
Quoting Jetson
Really?? so...what will you suggest then guys?. Forget about traning with a demo account and go straight to the black hole? start blowing the live account? That's is not a good advice folks. but anyways, i'm not an expert yet but i'm becoming one.

Try dumping $50 into an account with Oanda and trading that. The granularity offered with them will allow you to trade small enough sizes so that you would virtually never blow the account.
Headline: USD drops due to news of USD dropping!
  • #36
  • Nov 12, 2008 10:24pm Nov 12, 2008 10:24pm
Quoting Jetson
Really?? so...what will you suggest then guys?. Forget about traning with a demo account and go straight to the black hole? start blowing the live account? That's is not a good advice folks. but anyways, i'm not an expert yet but i'm becoming one.

No. That's not what was said. Simply start small and use little to no leverage at first.
  • #37
  • Nov 13, 2008 8:50am Nov 13, 2008 8:50am
Ok a demo account differs from a real account in that on a real account they widen spread, on a demo the spread is not widened, not all brokers are the same so be aware that a stop on a demo account will not get hit but one on the same brokers account with real money will get taken out.

Next, certain brokers platforms are crap on real money accounts poor fills, slippage etc so on a demo you will get perfect fills no slippage and wonderful trades. Then welcome to the real world, where orders are not filled the platform fails, no connection etc.

FXCM have this problem all the time on their metatrader account, invalid prices, minutes to execute a trade, pure and utter A1 classcrap. So a demo is in effect the perfect model. It does not exist, so do not be suprised when it looks different in real life.

However, develop a strategy on a demo platform and trade it until you make money every week, do not go live until you can do this, you will 100% fail if you do.

Then set up the account fund it with say 1000 dollars and trade micro lots, now its real money, experience the real world with little risk to your account. Trade for a month, if you are making money then add more money to your account and give the broker a good sorting out, he has got it comming to him.

Smalldog

P.S trading is like painting, lots of effort and only a few masterpieces
  • #38
  • Nov 13, 2008 9:47am Nov 13, 2008 9:47am
Quoting fxterrapin
No. That's not what was said. Simply start small and use little to no leverage at first.
Agree - a demo is good for learning how the platform works.- which buttons to click etc. - but once you learn this then go live w/ VERY small bets.

I'm of the belief that trading is 90% psycological and the other 10% is in your head. Until someone invents the 'Mental Demo" it is best you get started w/ working on yourself and how you react to putting on, managing and closing a live trade as soon as possible.
In trading, there is no bullshit. You either make money or you don't.
  • #39
  • Nov 13, 2008 10:16am Nov 13, 2008 10:16am
Quoting mrgreen
Agree - a demo is good for learning how the platform works.- which buttons to click etc. - but once you learn this then go live w/ VERY small bets.

I'm of the belief that trading is 90% psycological and the other 10% is in your head. Until someone invents the 'Mental Demo" it is best you get started w/ working on yourself and how you react to putting on, managing and closing a live trade as soon as possible.
I understand your point but James16 says he still puts new trading ideas through a demo process.

Absolutely agree about the psychological part being all important but demo can have its uses when trying new ways of trading.
  • #40
  • Nov 13, 2008 10:32am Nov 13, 2008 10:32am
Quoting fxprocessor
I understand your point but James16 says he still puts new trading ideas through a demo process.

Absolutely agree about the psychological part being all important but demo can have its uses when trying new ways of trading.
For the sake of this argument I believe the majority of posts about the use of a demo account are pointed to a person's first account. As in, someone who hasn't ever traded live.

Demo accounts have tons of functionality outside of figuring out what buttons do what, but the simple fact is that from psychological standpoint nothing teaches you better than real money.
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