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Internet backup

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 19, 2008 12:46pm Oct 19, 2008 12:46pm
Hi to all
If you are running automated trades , what do you do to secure the connection of the internet.Is it possible to have more than one internet service provider running the same trading platform on two different computer ? or is there any other way to have this backup Thanks
  • #2
  • Oct 20, 2008 2:27am Oct 20, 2008 2:27am
you can have 2 isp, and when one fails, resort to the other.
Twitter: @forexpokerpro
  • #3
  • Oct 20, 2008 7:55am Oct 20, 2008 7:55am
Get a dialup acct. You can get a cheap dialup for under $100 a year.

And yes, if you have a router you can setup multiple ISPs at a time, but that's a pain in the butt and probably not worth the cost.
  • #4
  • Oct 21, 2008 1:54am Oct 21, 2008 1:54am
Quoting Rabid
Get a dialup acct. You can get a cheap dialup for under $100 a year.

And yes, if you have a router you can setup multiple ISPs at a time, but that's a pain in the butt and probably not worth the cost.
how much does a router that gets fed 2 isps at once cost?
  • #5
  • Oct 21, 2008 8:03pm Oct 21, 2008 8:03pm
A good load balancing or failover router is not cheap. It's cheaper to build a machine w/ 2 network cards and set it up as a gateway, I'd imagine. My wireless router has 2 inputs, but I doubt very much that it can handle more than 1 active ISP.

But there's not much point if you've only got 1 PC. If you've just got one you can use an ethernet connect on one and USB on another, or maybe USB on both (via a USB hub or something). You wouldn't get load balancing or anything fancy doing that, but it'd work as a backup. A bit expensive tho, unless you can find really cheap DSL in your area.

Another possibility is wireless. If your neighbors trust you, and you them, you could setup a wifi exchange. If they have DSL and you have cable, or vice-versa, you could just connect into theirs during downtimes.

If that's not an option then there are wireless providers out there. You get a little USB card and pay a monthly fee and get some kind of access, it's not super fast (and has some latency) but is better than nothing. You'd basically just set both of them up, then only use the USB if your other network is down.

I still like the dialup option tho. There's one here that's $5 per month ($60 per year, paid up front). Can't beat the price.

A lot of your options will depend on what's available in your area.
  • #6
  • Oct 22, 2008 8:10pm Oct 22, 2008 8:10pm
Quoting Rabid
A good load balancing or failover router is not cheap. It's cheaper to build a machine w/ 2 network cards and set it up as a gateway, I'd imagine. My wireless router has 2 inputs, but I doubt very much that it can handle more than 1 active ISP.

But there's not much point if you've only got 1 PC. If you've just got one you can use an ethernet connect on one and USB on another, or maybe USB on both (via a USB hub or something). You wouldn't get load balancing or anything fancy doing that, but it'd work as a backup. A bit expensive tho, unless you can find really cheap DSL in your area.

Another possibility is wireless. If your neighbors trust you, and you them, you could setup a wifi exchange. If they have DSL and you have cable, or vice-versa, you could just connect into theirs during downtimes.

If that's not an option then there are wireless providers out there. You get a little USB card and pay a monthly fee and get some kind of access, it's not super fast (and has some latency) but is better than nothing. You'd basically just set both of them up, then only use the USB if your other network is down.

I still like the dialup option tho. There's one here that's $5 per month ($60 per year, paid up front). Can't beat the price.

A lot of your options will depend on what's available in your area.
i have an expert advisor that id like to run in the future so would a computer set as a gateway have the load balancing option as well? can you give me a link of a router where it can reliably take 2 isp connections?
  • #7
  • Oct 22, 2008 8:31pm Oct 22, 2008 8:31pm
Do a remote hosting service. You can find these for about $20/mo and they'll let you run a remote desktop on one of their machines in a secure datacenter with backups and everything. There's a thread on FF about such a thing.
Never underestimate the powers of the Force.
  • #8
  • Oct 22, 2008 8:59pm Oct 22, 2008 8:59pm
Quoting The Jedi
Do a remote hosting service. You can find these for about $20/mo and they'll let you run a remote desktop on one of their machines in a secure datacenter with backups and everything. There's a thread on FF about such a thing.
i'd rather have it run on my own computer for peace of mind in case the hosting people see the money in that account
  • #9
  • Oct 22, 2008 10:53pm Oct 22, 2008 10:53pm
Quoting rogerdoger
i'd rather have it run on my own computer for peace of mind in case the hosting people see the money in that account
The only way they can see that is if you give them express permission to check on things. Otherwise, it's off to the lawyer's. You're forgetting the kind of society we live in. Sue until you win. It works for the presidency, and for burglar's who hurt themselves breaking into your house, it can work for something decent sometime too.
Never underestimate the powers of the Force.
  • #10
  • Oct 23, 2008 12:44am Oct 23, 2008 12:44am
Quoting The Jedi
The only way they can see that is if you give them express permission to check on things. Otherwise, it's off to the lawyer's. You're forgetting the kind of society we live in. Sue until you win. It works for the presidency, and for burglar's who hurt themselves breaking into your house, it can work for something decent sometime too.
ya good point. for comparison's sake do you know of the dollar estimate of that kind of router?
  • #11
  • Oct 23, 2008 7:55am Oct 23, 2008 7:55am
Quoting The Jedi
Do a remote hosting service. You can find these for about $20/mo and they'll let you run a remote desktop on one of their machines in a secure datacenter with backups and everything. There's a thread on FF about such a thing.
Rabid 's got good ideas, but I believe your ultimate solution is to follow The Jedi's advice. As far as I'm concerned, it's about the state-of-the-art solution to your original question.
  • #12
  • Oct 23, 2008 1:28pm Oct 23, 2008 1:28pm
Quote
i have an expert advisor that id like to run in the future so would a computer set as a gateway have the load balancing option as well? can you give me a link of a router where it can reliably take 2 isp connections?
Yes, you could setup a gateway system to manage failover and load balancing. An old friend of mine used to run one at home on a linux system.

For a link or to learn more just google "Failover routers".

Edit: I just found several by searching for "dual wan router" on Google. $300 or so. Not a bad option.

Quote
Do a remote hosting service. You can find these for about $20/mo and they'll let you run a remote desktop on one of their machines in a secure datacenter with backups and everything. There's a thread on FF about such a thing.
For $20 a month?? Really? Do you really know of a place where you can get a reliable, dedicated machine hosted at a half-decent NOC in an industrialized nation for $20 a month?

I would not trust a VPS server to run an automated trader. Why? Load. Most VPS servers are oversold, this means that they will sell a package to a larger number of ppl than the server can actually hold. Most VPS systems are engineering for expanded web hosting capabilities, not for 24/7 operation of crucial programs.

The alternative is rack hosting. You can get decent rack hosting for around $200 a month. I've used ThePlanet before, they're pretty decent on stuff like that. They are nice, if you purchase admin support too you'll have someone on call 24/7 if something happens. Most of the machines are on a well routed network (failover and load balanced), have a UPS, etc. But that is $200 a month, with extra costs for a variety of things.

Of course that won't provide a backup internet path to your home. If your connect drops the EA can still function from the remote server, but you'll have no way to access it. Which again, is why I like having a cheap dialup acct.
  • #13
  • Oct 23, 2008 4:22pm Oct 23, 2008 4:22pm
Quoting Rabid
Yes, you could setup a gateway system to manage failover and load balancing. An old friend of mine used to run one at home on a linux system.

For a link or to learn more just google \"Failover routers\".

Edit: I just found several by searching for \"dual wan router\" on Google. $300 or so. Not a bad option.

For $20 a month?? Really? Do you really know of a place where you can get a reliable, dedicated machine hosted at a half-decent NOC in an industrialized nation for $20 a month?

I would not trust a VPS server to run an automated trader. Why? Load. Most VPS servers are oversold, this means that they will sell a package to a larger number of ppl than the server can actually hold. Most VPS systems are engineering for expanded web hosting capabilities, not for 24/7 operation of crucial programs.

The alternative is rack hosting. You can get decent rack hosting for around $200 a month. I've used ThePlanet before, they're pretty decent on stuff like that. They are nice, if you purchase admin support too you'll have someone on call 24/7 if something happens. Most of the machines are on a well routed network (failover and load balanced), have a UPS, etc. But that is $200 a month, with extra costs for a variety of things.

Of course that won't provide a backup internet path to your home. If your connect drops the EA can still function from the remote server, but you'll have no way to access it. Which again, is why I like having a cheap dialup acct.
thanks just what i was looking for!

i decided that i will go with the two isp wan router route. don't want to have to deal with having the vps loose power or something
  • #14
  • Oct 23, 2008 5:09pm Oct 23, 2008 5:09pm
The VPS, or virtual private server, is a machine that's hosted like a dedicated rack hosted machine, except it's split among several parties. Usually they have a UPS too, or some kind of backup.

I have, however, seen a lot of oversold VPS systems. For a lot of hosts you get exactly what you pay for. Pay too little and the host can't keep a high quality... the server gets oversold and your performance is erratic. Pay too much and you might as well just get something dedicated.

Glad you found what you're looking for. I did a search on newegg and found a few decent-looking options. The "SYSWAN SW24 VPN 10/100" looks good. It's very cheap ($130), and while it's obviously for rack mount setups there's no reason why you couldn't just put it on a shelf. It's only 10 mbps VPN-side, but unless you've got a 100mbps full fiber connect that hardly matters. Since it's got a VPN server you could connect a wireless router to it and get WPA+VPN security and setup the machine w/ a remote access screen. Then you could check up on your system anywhere in the house from a laptop... hehe.

Connect it all to a UPS (search for "CyberPower" or check the UPS section on tigerdirect, it's very cost-effective) and you're pretty well protected. My UPS has a USB connector and some software, it'll start a powerdown sequence when the power goes out. You might be able to wire something like that into your EA, so that your running trades would be automatically closed on a power outage (or just move the stop to BE).

Also consider adding an external harddrive if you don't already have one. You can get one cheaply, and it makes a perfect backup. I've had harddrives die w/o warning before, so my weekly backups have come in handy more than once.
  • #15
  • Oct 23, 2008 10:44pm Oct 23, 2008 10:44pm
It looks like this problem is solved. So you can disregard if you choose...

Now I'm no expert on the technical side of things (my partner is), but since we live in Florida and hurricanes can leave you without power for days at a time - our goal was to "get it out of the house - and even the state, if possible."

So for something like $23 a month we're tied into a virtual dedicated server through Go Daddy and we believe we're pretty well covered for about any situation.

Again, that's about as technical as I can get about the matter. But I know my partner did some homework before we leaped into anything. Of course he could be wrong!

For what it's worth...
  • #16
  • Oct 24, 2008 12:01am Oct 24, 2008 12:01am
Have you guys had any problems w/ Godaddy? I've had bad experiences w/ them...
  • #17
  • Oct 24, 2008 1:02am Oct 24, 2008 1:02am
Quoting Rabid
Have you guys had any problems w/ Godaddy? I've had bad experiences w/ them...
No, not in about 9 months. But we haven't had the hurricane acid test yet!
  • #18
  • Oct 24, 2008 1:56pm Oct 24, 2008 1:56pm
Quoting Rabid
The VPS, or virtual private server, is a machine that's hosted like a dedicated rack hosted machine, except it's split among several parties. Usually they have a UPS too, or some kind of backup.

I have, however, seen a lot of oversold VPS systems. For a lot of hosts you get exactly what you pay for. Pay too little and the host can't keep a high quality... the server gets oversold and your performance is erratic. Pay too much and you might as well just get something dedicated.

Glad you found what you're looking for. I did a search on newegg and found a few decent-looking options. The \"SYSWAN SW24 VPN 10/100\" looks good. It's very cheap ($130), and while it's obviously for rack mount setups there's no reason why you couldn't just put it on a shelf. It's only 10 mbps VPN-side, but unless you've got a 100mbps full fiber connect that hardly matters. Since it's got a VPN server you could connect a wireless router to it and get WPA+VPN security and setup the machine w/ a remote access screen. Then you could check up on your system anywhere in the house from a laptop... hehe.

Connect it all to a UPS (search for \"CyberPower\" or check the UPS section on tigerdirect, it's very cost-effective) and you're pretty well protected. My UPS has a USB connector and some software, it'll start a powerdown sequence when the power goes out. You might be able to wire something like that into your EA, so that your running trades would be automatically closed on a power outage (or just move the stop to BE).

Also consider adding an external harddrive if you don't already have one. You can get one cheaply, and it makes a perfect backup. I've had harddrives die w/o warning before, so my weekly backups have come in handy more than once.
how does this router look?
http://www.peplink.com/products/balance-200-300/
  • #19
  • Last Post: Oct 24, 2008 5:05pm Oct 24, 2008 5:05pm
Wow. Serious piece of equipment. Expensive too, $845? $995? Do you really need an integrated DNS?

Either way, it'll do the job I'm sure. Decent support service too, mebbe they can help you set it up.

Quote
No, not in about 9 months. But we haven't had the hurricane acid test yet!

Good luck!
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