IDEAL PRO is driving me nuts! Please help. | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Please help, this is driving me crazy! Buy-Sell basket offline chart 1 reply

Tax Time: Will you have your Nuts in a Bag? 0 replies

FX-PRO, ODL, Metaquotes...please Help!!! 1 reply

Straddles on News: Nuts & Bolts 1 reply

Oanda platform driving me nuts! 16 replies

IDEAL PRO is driving me nuts! Please help.

  • #1
  • First Post: Oct 22, 2008 2:47am Oct 22, 2008 2:47am
I funded my account with both USD and EUR.

I then took a short position on the EUR/USD at 1.4680 and just closed it out at 1.2880. However, it seems that with IDEAL PRO you simply get the original EUR back that you sold, the profit is not closed in USD (my base currency).

Most other brokers work like this:

Base currency (USD)

If you short EUR/USD you borrow EUR with your base USD and then take those EUR and buy USD. When you close, you buy back the EUR, BUT the profit is booked in the base currency.

How do I get Ideal PRO to work like this?

Thank you!

fxterrapin
  • #2
  • Oct 22, 2008 7:07am Oct 22, 2008 7:07am
It's been a while since I traded with IB but going from memory I think you have to convert your P/L into account (base) currency using Ideal don't you?
  • #3
  • Oct 22, 2008 7:56am Oct 22, 2008 7:56am
Quoting lostinspace
It's been a while since I traded with IB but going from memory I think you have to convert your P/L into account (base) currency using Ideal don't you?
Ideal vs. Ideal Pro is simply a matter of trade size...
  • #4
  • Oct 22, 2008 8:27am Oct 22, 2008 8:27am
Quoting fxterrapin
Ideal vs. Ideal Pro is simply a matter of trade size...

IdealPro is for trading, Ideal is used to convert out P/L, irrespective of size (within reason, but well within your limits I imagine)

Just manually convert out your P/L on Ideal as already suggested....I don't think you can automate the process.
  • #5
  • Oct 22, 2008 2:21pm Oct 22, 2008 2:21pm
Quoting lostinspace
IdealPro is for trading, Ideal is used to convert out P/L, irrespective of size (within reason, but well within your limits I imagine)

Just manually convert out your P/L on Ideal as already suggested....I don't think you can automate the process.
Lostinspace,

Thanks for responding!

I honestly don't see how IB's system would allow me to close out the P/L in another currency. Any ideas?

The real problem is that the account balance never fluctuated with the P/L of the trade, which probably means that it was a 'cash only' trade. Also, it was unleveraged.


The P/L is about 30,000 USD so if I convert it out, it will probably get re-routed through IDEAL PRO anyway. (that's why the KRW is only available through IDEAL - for those who want purchase Korean stocks). If you have larger orders (250k USD) they are re-routed through IDEAL PRO even when you chose IDEAL.


Thanks.
  • #6
  • Oct 22, 2008 2:27pm Oct 22, 2008 2:27pm
Quoting lostinspace
IdealPro is for trading, Ideal is used to convert out P/L, irrespective of size (within reason, but well within your limits I imagine)
Both Ideal and IdealPro can be used to convert. Orders under <$25k are directed to Ideal, that is the only difference.


***
fxtp,

What was the trade date? (you didn't answer my pm )
  • #7
  • Oct 22, 2008 3:24pm Oct 22, 2008 3:24pm
Quoting fxterrapin
Lostinspace,

Thanks for responding!

I honestly don't see how IB's system would allow me to close out the P/L in another currency. Any ideas?

The real problem is that the account balance never fluctuated with the P/L of the trade, which probably means that it was a 'cash only' trade. Also, it was unleveraged.


The P/L is about 30,000 USD so if I convert it out, it will probably get re-routed through IDEAL PRO anyway. (that's why the KRW is only available through IDEAL - for those who want purchase Korean stocks). If you have larger orders (250k USD) they are re-routed through IDEAL PRO even when you chose IDEAL.


Thanks.
Did you call IB? I have never liked IB's platform so I wish I could help. Has the equity in the account changed? Good luck, I look forward to hearing the outcome on this one.

All the best
  • #8
  • Oct 22, 2008 4:25pm Oct 22, 2008 4:25pm
Quoting Trader KGB
Both Ideal and IdealPro can be used to convert. Orders under <$25k are directed to Ideal, that is the only difference.

I'm not sure that's true, where on IdealPro is Jpy/Usd or Cad/Usd for example? How would you convert Yen or Cad P/L to USD (irrespective of size)? I think only on Ideal.

Like I said in my first reply I'm going from memory of when I had an IB account, even then I remember it being unecessarily complicated.
  • #9
  • Oct 22, 2008 4:30pm Oct 22, 2008 4:30pm
Quoting fxterrapin
Lostinspace,

Thanks for responding!

I honestly don't see how IB's system would allow me to close out the P/L in another currency. Any ideas?

The real problem is that the account balance never fluctuated with the P/L of the trade, which probably means that it was a 'cash only' trade. Also, it was unleveraged.


The P/L is about 30,000 USD so if I convert it out, it will probably get re-routed through IDEAL PRO anyway. (that's why the KRW is only available through IDEAL - for those who want purchase Korean stocks). If you have larger orders (250k USD) they are re-routed through IDEAL PRO even when you chose IDEAL.


Thanks.
'close out the P/L in another currency'?

'the account balance never fluctuated with the P/L of the trade'?

'Korean stocks'?

Sorry, you've lost me altogether now, plus I thought the lower limit for IdealPro was 25k not 250k?

fxtrader42 suggested calling IB and I kinda agree, it might be easier!
  • #10
  • Oct 22, 2008 5:23pm Oct 22, 2008 5:23pm
Trader KGB, fxtrader42, lostinspace, welcome to the gates of hell... you sure you want to enter?

I have called and chatted with IB reps. Both approaches turned out to be semi-fruitless. Here is the trade history if you want to follow along. The first one and the last two are of importance in this matter.

Trader KGB said (and I agree with him) that the trade was treated as cash only, not a margined (1:1 in this case) trade that involves a three way between the base currency, the currency that you buy and the one you sell. IB's main business is equities and options and this has become more evident than ever before. Fx for Fx's sake is a bit of an afterthought here.

In short, the base currency has no say over how the P/L is booked (this is completely different from the way other fx brokers function). It is simply an accounting measure. Also, IB uses currency accounts (neg or pos), much like most EU banks do. Virtual fx positions may or may not represent actual currency cash positions.

The account was funded with both EUR and USD. (BIG MISTAKE!)
The trade was unleveraged.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2vsgrvs.jpg
  • #11
  • Oct 22, 2008 5:35pm Oct 22, 2008 5:35pm
I wonder about the following: If I had started with only USD in my account would this have changed anything? It should.

Even if I don't borrow in the sense of using margin (more than 1:1) there would still be borrowing going on since I'd have to use my base to borrow EUR and then use those borrowed EUR to buy USD.

However, it could also be that unless you use more than 1:1 the trade will be traded as cash only conversion, not a virtual fx position. Most fx traders who trade fx for fx's sake (not carry funded equity investments) use more than 1:1 and wouldn't come across this issue very often (if ever).

The really buring question: What if I had traded more than 170k EUR? Would IB have tapped into the additional USD and would it have treated it as a margined (more than 1:1) position in term of EUR since all the EUR would have already been depleated.

What a mess. Never dual fund your IB account with two different currencies! That is, if you trade with them at all. I can now appreciate some of the neg comments about their fx system.
  • #12
  • Oct 22, 2008 5:51pm Oct 22, 2008 5:51pm
Quoting fxterrapin
.. you sure you want to enter?
Honestly? No, not really, but it's become like one of those chinese puzzles that just can't be put down!

I'm a couple of glasses past coherent tonight and hopefully by tomorrow someone else will have solved the conundrum

Nice trade though, beautifully done, kudos.
  • #13
  • Oct 22, 2008 6:17pm Oct 22, 2008 6:17pm
So let me get this straight: you sold EUR's and bought USD. Short from 1.48 something and closed out at 1.28 something and you have no P/L in your account?

Were you marked to market every day at 5pm or were you rolled over where interest would be taken out of your account? From what I see it looks like you were marked to market but the statement doesnt give me enough info.

How do you think funding in two different currencies affected this trade?

Most importantly what the F did IB tell you? Lets start there...
  • #14
  • Edited Oct 23, 2008 3:55am Oct 22, 2008 9:01pm | Edited Oct 23, 2008 3:55am
Quote
I then took a short position on the EUR/USD at 1.4680 and just closed it out at 1.2880.
Plain and Simple, this is 1800 pips profit.
You either earned USD1,800 (or EUR2,318.40) on a mini trade, or USD18,000 (or EUR23,184.00) if it was a short 1 full lot.

correction:
You either earned USD1,800 (or EUR1,397.51) on a mini trade, or USD18,000 (or EUR13,975.15) if it was a short 1 full lot.
 EUR1,397.51 = USD1,800 / 1.2880 EURUSD


Quote
However, it seems that with IDEAL PRO you simply get the original EUR back that you sold, the profit is not closed in USD (my base currency).
May I know what is the profit IDEAL PRO gave you?

Those discussion regarding 1:1 leverage are totally irrelevant in the computation of PnL.
If you lost $1000, you lost $1000!
If you won $1000, you won $1000 plain and simple.
UNLESS you are trading in some kind of Profit Sharing schema wherein broker claiming to share the cost of PnL (either you win or lose) 50-50. Yes there are some brokers like this usually on Muslim accounts.
  • #15
  • Oct 22, 2008 9:34pm Oct 22, 2008 9:34pm
Quoting BurgerKing
Plain and Simple, this is 1800 pips profit.
You either earned USD1,800 (or EUR2,318.40) on a mini trade, or USD18,000 (or EUR23,184.00) if it was a short 1 full lot.




May I know what is the profit IDEAL PRO gave you?

Those discussion regarding 1:1 leverage are totally irrelevant in the computation of PnL.
If you lost $1000, you lost $1000!
If you won $1000, you won $1000 plain and simple.
UNLESS you are trading in some kind of Profit Sharing schema wherein broker claiming to share the cost of PnL (either you win or lose) 50-50. Yes there are some brokers like this usually on Muslim accounts.
BK,

Hav eyou heard of IB? We are not talking about some Muslim broker. I noticed in your example you forgot to talk about interest which would play a big part on PnL with a short EUR postion. Also, converting PnL into a base currency can affect pip values so there is a lot to go over. That's why I want to hear what IB has to say.
  • #16
  • Oct 22, 2008 9:56pm Oct 22, 2008 9:56pm
You sold 170k EUR at 1.4684 and got for that ~249000 USD. Then you bought back 170K EUR at 1.2884 and had to give back only ~219000 USD. That should leave you with a gain of ~30000 USDs and only a cash position. If you want to change your USD balance into another currency, just make a trade for that amount.

For example, if you want to change your 30K USD gain into EURs with an EUR/USD exchange rate of 1.2800 you would buy 23437 EUR/USD (30000/1.2800) - that would deduct 30K USDs and adds 23437 EURs to your balances, again leaving you with no margined positions (assuming you didn't trade anything else).

At least that was the way when i had an IB account years ago. IB reporting of cash positions and PnL for Forex is a bitch, apparently it didn't change much.
  • #17
  • Oct 22, 2008 10:14pm Oct 22, 2008 10:14pm
Quoting shrike
You sold 170k EUR at 1.4684 and got for that ~249000 USD. Then you bought back 170K EUR at 1.2884 and had to give back only ~219000 USD. That should leave you with a gain of ~30000 USDs and only a cash position. If you want to change your USD balance into another currency, just make a trade for that amount.

For example, if you want to change your 30K USD gain into EURs with an EUR/USD exchange rate of 1.2800 you would buy 23437 EUR/USD (30000/1.2800) - that would deduct 30K USDs and adds 23437 EURs to your balances, again leaving you with no margined positions (assuming you didn't trade anything else).

At least that was the way when i had an IB account years ago. IB reporting of cash positions and PnL for Forex is a bitch, apparently it didn't change much.

I saw it the same way but from what fxterp was saying his account equity didnt show that. Waiting to hear from him
  • #18
  • Oct 22, 2008 10:26pm Oct 22, 2008 10:26pm
Quoting fxtrader42
I saw it the same way but from what fxterp was saying his account equity didnt show that. Waiting to hear from him
I've gone over his numbers, and I think he's drunk on maple syrup again (inside joke).

fxterrapin,
Please tell me my last PMs were wrong, otherwise you might have me calling into question the whole mantra of 'German engineering'.
  • #19
  • Oct 22, 2008 10:57pm Oct 22, 2008 10:57pm
Quoting lostinspace
I'm not sure that's true, where on IdealPro is Jpy/Usd or Cad/Usd for example? How would you convert Yen or Cad P/L to USD (irrespective of size)? I think only on Ideal.
You'd simply trade the direct pairs in the opposite direction of your original trade in the amount of your P&L (for P&L >$25k USD). If trading cross rates, you have to convert both sides back..

Quote
Like I said in my first reply I'm going from memory of when I had an IB account, even then I remember it being unecessarily complicated.
It is unnecessarily complicated, and we haven't even delved into the issues of managed accounts or currency cross margins (those are entirely different stories altogether..).

The Ideal/IdealPro difference was confirmed by IB reps on an elitetrader thread.
  • #20
  • Oct 23, 2008 12:23am Oct 23, 2008 12:23am
Quoting lostinspace
I'm a couple of glasses past coherent tonight and hopefully by tomorrow someone else will have solved the conundrum


Quote
Nice trade though, beautifully done, kudos.

Thanks.
0 traders viewing now