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  • #3,541
  • Oct 16, 2008 12:38pm Oct 16, 2008 12:38pm
Quoting Monaco
My opinion when it comes to managing client funds is to insist upon a management fee of 2%. Trading becomes alot more enjoyable and less stressful with that management fee is my advice

The reality is that anyone who can produce a consistent return of 15% per year without significant drawdown and with reasonable funds (low to mid 7 figures) can attract significant capital. I have found that the number one question most investors ask is regarding the size of drawdown. It is also good to show mark-to-market results on a daily basis so investors can see the daily distribution of returns. That way they can begin to measure the volatility of your returns.
I have had you on my mind lately.... and the man who posted this is right on the money. I put myself in the investors shoes thought what questions would I ask Steve? or put another way say we are trying attract capital to trade. I would want to say " My number one job is to protect your money first above all else. Most of my months are profitable and when I do have a few losing months, they are less than the winning months. Unexpected event's like 87 crash, 2000 dot.com bubble breaking, 2008 world wide slide in indexes and spot forex do happen for sure. Our approach is not to stick our heads in the sand "hope" that these events do not happen. Rather we have researched these type events extensively. Our modeling warns us in advance and we REDUCE position size in times of extreme movements. Further when such an event has happened we make our best gains not only in back tests but our live trading has shown this threw as well.
Our belief is that true risk control is achieving by true diversification. We feel trading multiple markets across multiple time frames with multiple non correlated systems is the corner stone of our success. "

Call me stupid but that's the kind of thing I would want to hear. Everyone loves you when you win, but when chips are down that's when the rubber meets the road. Toby Crabel does not make a lot of money. But he does not loss his clients funds. He manages Billions. Larry H. the Guy who founded mint, same thing. I apologize for running on so long

Best wishes,
Jason
May the fish in your stream of life always bite.
  • #3,542
  • Oct 16, 2008 1:50pm Oct 16, 2008 1:50pm
Quoting steviet
Well, pretty much a perfect day for me with the pair ranging between 176 and 179 for most of it.

Trades 1 and 2 closed out for 407 & 143 pips and the ranging system has so far netted a further 850 pips today.

Trade 3 (short from 176.46) from the daily is currently up around 200 pips & set a further trade too.

Trade 4 - short following break of support on 4 hour chart, from 175.51, target 173.76.

Steve's had a good day with the two systems working together well
Knew you could do it
  • #3,543
  • Oct 16, 2008 4:54pm Oct 16, 2008 4:54pm
Stevie

Is there any way you can backtest how the two strategies - ranging strategy and trending strategy - would perform if applied together?

This could actually be a good way to hedge out risk.

By the way, I am not sure I completely understand your ranging strategy.

Can you post a chart example of a typical range you like to trade and tell me where you take your trades and what an ideal setup looks like?
  • #3,544
  • Oct 17, 2008 1:02am Oct 17, 2008 1:02am
Hi there altrader & welcome to the thread

Looks like you chose to go live at an 'interesting' time lol.

I'm sorry to hear of the start you had - you will know by now that trading live is very different to trading demo and you need to be strong to deal with whatever the market throws at you.

Don't over-leverage and try to get your money back too quickly - use this as a time to reflect and ask yourself what didn't go according to plan and why. Are there holes in your strategy that can be plugged to prevent a similar situation occuring again?

Once again, thanks for writing and I wish you all the best for the future.

Kind Regards
Steve
Quoting altrader
Hi Steviet


I am new to seeing your thread. I began trading a live account on 3 October 2008. My account size was $1973


I had been demo trading since the begining of July. I thought I had some decent methods and was ready for a live account.

Well, on the day that the AUD/USD totally tanked...it was my second day trading and I lost 35% ($708) of my account in one trade. That hurt.


I trade full time with this small acc from home and since that loss I have lost a further 24% of my account.

Anyway, I can feel your pain of what it is like to lose money in Forex. I'm still hanging in there. I think that this market is great. I say that because these are probably the worst conditions we'll see in forex for many years to come but at least we know what it is like.

I just wanted to say, don't give up and try to find strategies that work in the market today. Nothing is a sure thing in trading IMO and we need to constantly adapt.
  • #3,545
  • Oct 17, 2008 1:19am Oct 17, 2008 1:19am
Great post Jason

Protecting capital should be absolutely the number one priority in any trading plan.

I can't believe it's only a week since I heard the news from my investor. It's been a long one but one I have been able to clear my head and really plan for the future.

People here have been incredibly supportive and it has opened my mind up to be able to rethink what I do.

More importantly I'm even more determined than I ever was to make a long term success of this.

Kind Regards
Steve
Quoting aSandman
I have had you on my mind lately.... and the man who posted this is right on the money. I put myself in the investors shoes thought what questions would I ask Steve? or put another way say we are trying attract capital to trade. I would want to say \" My number one job is to protect your money first above all else. Most of my months are profitable and when I do have a few losing months, they are less than the winning months. Unexpected event's like 87 crash, 2000 dot.com bubble breaking, 2008 world wide slide in indexes and spot forex do happen for sure. Our approach is not to stick our heads in the sand \"hope\" that these events do not happen. Rather we have researched these type events extensively. Our modeling warns us in advance and we REDUCE position size in times of extreme movements. Further when such an event has happened we make our best gains not only in back tests but our live trading has shown this threw as well.
Our belief is that true risk control is achieving by true diversification. We feel trading multiple markets across multiple time frames with multiple non correlated systems is the corner stone of our success. \"

Call me stupid but that's the kind of thing I would want to hear. Everyone loves you when you win, but when chips are down that's when the rubber meets the road. Toby Crabel does not make a lot of money. But he does not loss his clients funds. He manages Billions. Larry H. the Guy who founded mint, same thing. I apologize for running on so long

Best wishes,
Jason
  • #3,546
  • Oct 17, 2008 2:03am Oct 17, 2008 2:03am
Hey Steve... best of luck to you. I hope you still have a good year as we roll into December... that's what really matters... month to month, year to year... just hang in there.
Mr. Trend
  • #3,547
  • Oct 17, 2008 3:59am Oct 17, 2008 3:59am
Hi again Italian,

By applying the two together, I'm trying to smooth the curve as it were. I'll try and explain the two strategies below and how they fit together.

Ranging

I'm basically looking to trade within a range of 1000 pips and the idea is pretty simple really (like me lol).

Rules are as follows...

Maximum of 10 positions on at any time with a maximum of 5 long/short at any time. Stop loss is 1000 pips and target is 50 pips under normal conditions. If the previous day's range exceeds 500 pips the targets are extended to 100 pips.

This has worked very well the majority of the time but gets hit on the big moves. The increased target will help (and has this last week) to some extent but we also need to be taking trades with the big moves when the market dictates.

Trending

These trades will crop up more often in a more volatile market as we see at the moment. They are taken on the 4 hour or daily charts and I'm looking for set ups such as breaks of previous highs/lows on pin bars or breaks of previous support or resistance.

Orders are set at 30 pips above or below the high or low of a pin bar trade to reduce the risk of taking a trade on a spike or fake breakout.

Initial stop losses are set at 30 pips above/below the previous bar high/low and moved at the close of the next daily/4hour bar.

Targets are set at about 20 pips shy of the next level of support or resistance on the timeframe the trade was taken from.

So far the following trades have been taken on the trending system and I'll try and explain the rationale behind each one.

Trade 1 taken on the daily charts on Sun 12th October.

GBPJPY long from 172.45. Initial stop loss was 165.70 and target 184.43.

At the end of day one, price was 176.86 and stop loss was moved to 168.40. During day 2 we pierced 181 but then big retrace and stop loss was moved to 176.52.

Result was 407 pips profit

Trade 2 taken on 4 hour charts (10pm bar) on Tues 14th October

GBPJPY short from 177.45. Initial stop loss 180.92, target 176.02.

This one hit target as I slept.

Result was 143 pips profit.

Trade 3 taken on daily chart on Wed 15th October

GBPJPY short from 176.46. Initial stop loss 181.69 & target 170.13.

Bit of an unfortunate one as target was just missed (170.41) for over 600 pips and moved stop loss to 173.02 as I slept. This was hit during Asia.

Result was 344 pips profit.

Trade 4 taken on 4 hour chart (10pm bar) on Wed 15th October

GBPJPY short from 175.51. Initial stop loss 179.03 & target 173.75.

This one hit within an hour and complemented trade 3.

Result was 176 pips profit.

Trade 5 taken on 4 hour chart (10am bar) on Fri 16th October

GBPJPY short from 174.99. Initial stop loss 176.77 & target 173.50.

This was taken after the previous low of 175.29 was broken and the trade is currently running. It got to +80 pretty quickly but has since retraced and is currently +14.

So, in summary I'm confident that by working the two strategies in tandom I can be successful. There will be many 'trending' trades in volatile times and not so many when the market settles down.

This week has been profitable - some days the ranging method has woked a treat, others the trending method has taken over to offset what would have been a not so good day.

Hope this gives you some insight into what's going on in my tiny mind haha.

Kind Regards
Steve


Quoting ItalianSharp
Stevie

Is there any way you can backtest how the two strategies - ranging strategy and trending strategy - would perform if applied together?

This could actually be a good way to hedge out risk.

By the way, I am not sure I completely understand your ranging strategy.

Can you post a chart example of a typical range you like to trade and tell me where you take your trades and what an ideal setup looks like?
  • #3,548
  • Oct 17, 2008 6:50am Oct 17, 2008 6:50am
steviet

how many hours do you usually trade the range system?? i assume you do this after work??
  • #3,549
  • Oct 17, 2008 7:17am Oct 17, 2008 7:17am
What used to be the case was that I would trade the range method before and after work.

Now I'm not working I can trade it during mainly London & New York sessions.

Historically, the pair can often range in a 1000/1500 pip range for days, weeks & even months and that's when the method really comes into it's own.

Unfortunately since leaving work to trade full-time, the daily ranges have increased from 200-300 pips to anything from 500-1200 a day. This is why I've had to re-assess how I trade whilst the market remains this volatile.

Kind Regards
Steve
Quoting hilmy83
steviet

how many hours do you usually trade the range system?? i assume you do this after work??
  • #3,550
  • Oct 17, 2008 7:47am Oct 17, 2008 7:47am
Quoting steviet
What used to be the case was that I would trade the range method before and after work.

Now I'm not working I can trade it during mainly London & New York sessions.

Historically, the pair can often range in a 1000/1500 pip range for days, weeks & even months and that's when the method really comes into it's own.

Unfortunately since leaving work to trade full-time, the daily ranges have increased from 200-300 pips to anything from 500-1200 a day. This is why I've had to re-assess how I trade whilst the market remains this volatile.

Kind Regards
Steve
i believe you trade through marketiva right?

is there any chance you would switch over to a metatrader broker?

I would LOVE to see your trades live thorough investor access!
  • #3,551
  • Oct 17, 2008 7:59am Oct 17, 2008 7:59am
Well this one has been a little frustrating...

Opened at 174.99 targeting 173.50, it has spent most of the time in profit. Has bounced off 174.20 area twice before finally getting through but then finding 174.00 well supported.

It has since retraced past my entry point, tested 174.20 again and currently back around my intitial entry point.

Stop loss has now been tightened to 175.56 (30 pips above the last 4 hour bar high).

Kind Regards
Steve
  • #3,552
  • Oct 17, 2008 8:01am Oct 17, 2008 8:01am
Yeah, on my poxy little account I do. Used SaxoBank whilst trading for my investor so still haven't used Metatrader lol.

Quoting hilmy83
i believe you trade through marketiva right?

is there any chance you would switch over to a metatrader broker?

I would LOVE to see your trades live thorough investor access!
  • #3,553
  • Edited 10:38am Oct 17, 2008 10:15am | Edited 10:38am
Well, you can't win 'em all!

Looks like the dow being pushed up above 9000 for a bit of Friday Feelgood Factor has bolstered USDJPY & GBPJPY has been dragged along up with it.

Result on trade 5 - stopped out for -57 pips.

However, the pair has ranged nicely so far today and this has more than compensated for this small loss.

Kind Regards
Steve

edit.....forgotton what it was like to trade in this fashion! Price just hit the stop loss & now would've been back in positive territory LOL
Quoting steviet
Well this one has been a little frustrating...

Opened at 174.99 targeting 173.50, it has spent most of the time in profit. Has bounced off 174.20 area twice before finally getting through but then finding 174.00 well supported.

It has since retraced past my entry point, tested 174.20 again and currently back around my intitial entry point.

Stop loss has now been tightened to 175.56 (30 pips above the last 4 hour bar high).

Kind Regards
Steve
  • #3,554
  • Oct 18, 2008 10:28pm Oct 18, 2008 10:28pm
Hi Steve,

Your journal in FF has been one of the most aspiring threads i followed, after coming to FF earlier this year. Patience, testing and more testing, regular performance reviews - have shown to us that the hard work has paid off.

Karmo's Gbpjpy strategy following from Auslanco has been truly aspiring too.

Wishing you all the success, am sure you will bounce back to be better and stronger.

To the readers of this thread and Stevie, i would like to share with you this Trading plan template, which should set the framework for aspiring traders like myself.
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf T2W_Trading_Plan_Template_2005.pdf   160 KB | 668 downloads
  • #3,555
  • Oct 20, 2008 2:58am Oct 20, 2008 2:58am
Hey there

Great to hear that the journal has been of some help and you seem to be making a success of things

Kind Regards
Steve
Quoting sojournerr
Hi Steve,

Your journal in FF has been one of the most aspiring threads i followed, after coming to FF earlier this year. Patience, testing and more testing, regular performance reviews - have shown to us that the hard work has paid off.

Karmo's Gbpjpy strategy following from Auslanco has been truly aspiring too.

Wishing you all the success, am sure you will bounce back to be better and stronger.

To the readers of this thread and Stevie, i would like to share with you this Trading plan template, which should set the framework for aspiring traders like myself.
  • #3,556
  • Oct 20, 2008 3:01am Oct 20, 2008 3:01am
OK, so this morning my buy order was filled at 176.85, being a breakout of Friday's daily bar.

Initial stop loss is at 173.65 & target 184.43. This is the 6th trade taken so far on the 'trending' method.

Last week proved very profitable by combining the two methods and so far I'm encouraged by the results.

Let's see how this one pans out....

Kind Regards
Steve
  • #3,557
  • Oct 20, 2008 3:35am Oct 20, 2008 3:35am
Quoting sojournerr
Hi Steve,

Your journal in FF has been one of the most aspiring threads i followed, after coming to FF earlier this year. Patience, testing and more testing, regular performance reviews - have shown to us that the hard work has paid off.

Karmo's Gbpjpy strategy following from Auslanco has been truly aspiring too.

Wishing you all the success, am sure you will bounce back to be better and stronger.

To the readers of this thread and Stevie, i would like to share with you this Trading plan template, which should set the framework for aspiring traders like myself.
Dude...

Me fr SG too....

Hola...
Sonic
  • #3,558
  • Oct 20, 2008 3:36am Oct 20, 2008 3:36am
Quoting steviet
OK, so this morning my buy order was filled at 176.85, being a breakout of Friday's daily bar.

Initial stop loss is at 173.65 & target 184.43. This is the 6th trade taken so far on the 'trending' method.

Last week proved very profitable by combining the two methods and so far I'm encouraged by the results.

Let's see how this one pans out....

Kind Regards
Steve
Steviet,,

I guess we are in the early phase of EUR and GBP making a comeback..against USD..
What say U??

Sonic
  • #3,559
  • Oct 20, 2008 5:01am Oct 20, 2008 5:01am
Hmmm,

I don't trade GU but I'm still bearish on the pound long term.

We may see a retracement to 1.81 but only a close above 1.85 would change my bias. That's not to say of course that money can't be made on the retrace.

Same with GJ - looking for 181, possibly 184-5 before we look to test those lows again.
Quoting sonicdeejay
Steviet,,

I guess we are in the early phase of EUR and GBP making a comeback..against USD..
What say U??

Sonic
  • #3,560
  • Oct 20, 2008 7:31am Oct 20, 2008 7:31am
Quoting steviet
OK, so this morning my buy order was filled at 176.85, being a breakout of Friday's daily bar.

Initial stop loss is at 173.65 & target 184.43. This is the 6th trade taken so far on the 'trending' method.

Last week proved very profitable by combining the two methods and so far I'm encouraged by the results.

Let's see how this one pans out....

Kind Regards
Steve

Hi Steve,

I have been trading 7 years and tend to observe the FF mainly these days. I've made alot and lost similar amounts so I'm still learning. Its an incredibly difficult thing to master compared to running several businesses over the last 15 years. By far the hardest to make money, however the potential rewards are what keep me going.

Mindset is the one area I am focusing on as this has been my Number 1 downfall in the past. Biggest one being greed and over leveraging.

Anyway I've traded daily, hourly and 4 hourly breaks like you and it definitely works with regards to probability of success over a period of time.

One area I still haven't mastered is when to take profit. The best method I've come across is to take half your position off after 40 pips and bring stop to B/E and let the remaining position run, however I see you use a TP.

My question is how do you calculate this TP and is it the best way to close a trade in your opinion. I presume you have reviewed its success rate?

Dave
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