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  • #1,361
  • Oct 17, 2008 10:31am Oct 17, 2008 10:31am
I'm not entirely sure of what you're saying but if you read through the entire thread and all of the posts, you'll see that we've covered all of that sort of stuff already.


Quoting colombino
I'm talking about all versions of MTF stochastic (i dont find the correct one yet).
The problem is, that 14:00 bar on 15 min TF is in reality bar which closed at 14:15.
So 12:00 bar on 240 min TF is in reality 15:45 bar on 15min TF.

It's really stupid, I know, I dont know why MetaTrader was programed this way, but look on the charts and you will see for yourself.

But anyway MTF strategy is great and if you take only the best signals (1-2/day) you have like 90% accuracy.

Maybe someone could reprogram the MTF indicator to the right way, i'm not programmer unfortunately.

On the pictures the thick blue stoch is the 1h stoch.
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  • #1,362
  • Oct 17, 2008 11:14am Oct 17, 2008 11:14am
well, i read the thread, but Spuds post only... but anyway, if this stuff is covered already, why the MTF indicators are not repaired yet?

I'm not entirely sure of what you're saying...
Well, look on charts, the time values you see down on the horisontal line are not times of closing of the bar, but OPENING the bar.
So 15min bar at 14:00 means BAR WHICH OPENS AT 14:00 AND CLOSES AT 14:15.
So, if you on 15min chart wont to see closing of the 12:00 bar of the 4h timeframe, you have to go to the right and look on the 15:45 bar. ( which opens at 15:45 and closes at 16:00) BECAUSE 12:00bar on the 4HOUR chart OPENS at 12:00 bud CLOSES at 16:00.
Take a look on charts, you will see what i'm saying.
But the MTF indicator referst to the opening values. So the peak (according to previous pictures) at 15:00 on 1Hchart is not at 15:00 on the 15min chart but its at 15:45 bar.
  • #1,363
  • Oct 17, 2008 12:08pm Oct 17, 2008 12:08pm
Please post some specific examples. I've been spending some time looking at individual charts and those with the MTF Version 2.0 on them and can't really see any specific discrepancies. I'm not saying that they are, but only that I don't see any. I know that Spud had some concerns but later the indicator was fixed and proved to reflect the correct information.
  • #1,364
  • Oct 17, 2008 12:54pm Oct 17, 2008 12:54pm
Quoting jdcompute
Please post some specific examples. I've been spending some time looking at individual charts and those with the MTF Version 2.0 on them and can't really see any specific discrepancies. I'm not saying that they are, but only that I don't see any. I know that Spud had some concerns but later the indicator was fixed and proved to reflect the correct information.
As I look on your charts, you have same MTF indicator as me. So open any chart and look on the last (not finished yet) bar. And look down on the time on the time axis. - you will see this time is reffering to the opening of the bar, not close of the bar. And all other bars too.

Then go to the 60min TF and find some nice sharp top or bottom of the 60min stochastic. Write down the time of the bar and closing value of the bar.
Then go to the 15min TF and find there this top/bottom of the 60min MTF stochatic line. Right, now you see, the time of the bar is the same.
But same doesnt means correct! Look on the closing value of this bar!
Yes, its different. Because the closing value of the 60min bar lies 3 bars to the right. Check it!

So. If on the 60min TF the stoch has bottom at 14:00 and then you look in the 15min TF, the bottom of the 60min stoch is on the 14:00 bar too. BUT, it schould be on the 14:45 bar. Closing value of the 14:00 60min TF is the same as the closing value of the 14:45 15min TF bar. Check it!

Why? Because 14:00 on the 60min chart means bar which OPENS at 14:00 and closes at 15:00.
And on the 15min TF at 14:45 is bar which OPENS at 14:45 and closes at 15:00.

Play with the charts and you will see, that the time values at MTF indicator are correct, but not the placing of stochatic lines. ALL stochatic lines of the higher timeframes schould be shifted to the right. How much? It depends on the timeframe.
  • #1,365
  • Edited 4:48pm Oct 17, 2008 4:36pm | Edited 4:48pm
Okay, can you tell me how I would shift them? is that possible? But like I said, that's been addressed in the thread. The 1hr stoch in the MTF v.2.0 doesn't update everytime the 15m does, it only does it every hour as does the 4hr stoch. That's why they have clocks on them telling you when the current candle ends and the next one will start. So based on that, we're always trading on candle closes.

Quoting colombino
As I look on your charts, you have same MTF indicator as me. So open any chart and look on the last (not finished yet) bar. And look down on the time on the time axis. - you will see this time is reffering to the opening of the bar, not close of the bar. And all other bars too.

Then go to the 60min TF and find some nice sharp top or bottom of the 60min stochastic. Write down the time of the bar and closing value of the bar.
Then go to the 15min TF and find there this top/bottom of the 60min MTF stochatic line. Right, now you see, the time of the bar is the same.
But same doesnt means correct! Look on the closing value of this bar!
Yes, its different. Because the closing value of the 60min bar lies 3 bars to the right. Check it!

So. If on the 60min TF the stoch has bottom at 14:00 and then you look in the 15min TF, the bottom of the 60min stoch is on the 14:00 bar too. BUT, it schould be on the 14:45 bar. Closing value of the 14:00 60min TF is the same as the closing value of the 14:45 15min TF bar. Check it!

Why? Because 14:00 on the 60min chart means bar which OPENS at 14:00 and closes at 15:00.
And on the 15min TF at 14:45 is bar which OPENS at 14:45 and closes at 15:00.

Play with the charts and you will see, that the time values at MTF indicator are correct, but not the placing of stochatic lines. ALL stochatic lines of the higher timeframes schould be shifted to the right. How much? It depends on the timeframe.
  • #1,366
  • Oct 17, 2008 4:56pm Oct 17, 2008 4:56pm
Hope this helps.
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  • #1,367
  • Oct 18, 2008 12:32am Oct 18, 2008 12:32am
well, I think there is no way how to shift the MTFstoch lines. Only way is reprograming this indicator, probably.You are right, we are trading bar closes, so if we are trading real-time, there should be no problem.
The only problem arises with manual backtesting - because results could look on charts better then actualy are.

Interesting thing is that the same problem arises if you will plot vertical line on you chart in higher TF and when you move to the lower TF, the vertical line is not in the right place too (its moved left too, to the opening time, but the stochastic is computed at closing time, so in backtesting its looks like the stochastic made the signal couple of bars earlier. Again, try it on charts and wach the closing prices.

But anyway, even if we look on charts the right way (= always shifting the higher TF lines in your mind to the right), the MTF strategy is very profitable and interesting, especially if you take only the best signals = higher TF move first, all lines goes in the same way, only 15min stoch makes pullback and then turns back.
  • #1,368
  • Oct 18, 2008 5:38am Oct 18, 2008 5:38am
Columbino,

Is this a phenomenon of the MTF stochastics v2.0 indicator or the platform. I try to do what you said in your last post, ie: I have the regular 5 stoch on my H1, when it crosses, I go up to 4H and check the regular 5M stoch there for support, then drill down to the 15H and wait for the best entry, or some times even the M5 entry as described in the stochastic secrets thread. Does changing the chart periodicity and checking the regular stochastic indicator rather than putting multiple MTF stochastic v2.0 indicators on a single chart solve the problem? Yes this is confusing!

For JDCompute,

I see your posts on a lot of stocahstic threads. I'm on a mission of spritual enlightenment to find the stochastic Nirvana, hence I lurk in the same threads. I have printed out and read both entire threads of Spudfyre and Boxingislife (yes its several binders full) and although the latter is "easier" I think the one more likely to pick a winning trade is to do it as I described above. What is your favorite method? I have other questions for you, but they are trading in general and not pertaiining to this thread so how can I ask you without clogging up this thread? Thansk.
FW
Isolate yourself from the herd
  • #1,369
  • Oct 18, 2008 9:26am Oct 18, 2008 9:26am
actualy, I'm just going to read through those thick boxingislife ideas threads.
The idea behind looks to be similar to the Spuds.
Is it worth it? Is it more profitable?:-)
  • #1,370
  • Oct 18, 2008 10:08am Oct 18, 2008 10:08am
Perhaps I should've said that at the beginning, sorry. But yes when trading live, it all works out fine if we trade on the candle closes as Spud advised.

Quoting colombino
well, I think there is no way how to shift the MTFstoch lines. Only way is reprograming this indicator, probably.You are right, we are trading bar closes, so if we are trading real-time, there should be no problem.
The only problem arises with manual backtesting - because results could look on charts better then actualy are.

Interesting thing is that the same problem arises if you will plot vertical line on you chart in higher TF and when you move to the lower TF, the vertical line is not in the right place too (its moved left too, to the opening time, but the stochastic is computed at closing time, so in backtesting its looks like the stochastic made the signal couple of bars earlier. Again, try it on charts and wach the closing prices.

But anyway, even if we look on charts the right way (= always shifting the higher TF lines in your mind to the right), the MTF strategy is very profitable and interesting, especially if you take only the best signals = higher TF move first, all lines goes in the same way, only 15min stoch makes pullback and then turns back.
  • #1,371
  • Oct 18, 2008 10:13am Oct 18, 2008 10:13am
I'm by far no trading expert but I'd be more than willing to help you in anyway that I can. You can PM me if you'd like. I'll answer as soon as I can. I'm on the forums all day and night actually, during the week and pretty much check it throughout the day on the weekends.


Quoting forexweasel
Columbino,

Is this a phenomenon of the MTF stochastics v2.0 indicator or the platform. I try to do what you said in your last post, ie: I have the regular 5 stoch on my H1, when it crosses, I go up to 4H and check the regular 5M stoch there for support, then drill down to the 15H and wait for the best entry, or some times even the M5 entry as described in the stochastic secrets thread. Does changing the chart periodicity and checking the regular stochastic indicator rather than putting multiple MTF stochastic v2.0 indicators on a single chart solve the problem? Yes this is confusing!

For JDCompute,

I see your posts on a lot of stocahstic threads. I'm on a mission of spritual enlightenment to find the stochastic Nirvana, hence I lurk in the same threads. I have printed out and read both entire threads of Spudfyre and Boxingislife (yes its several binders full) and although the latter is \"easier\" I think the one more likely to pick a winning trade is to do it as I described above. What is your favorite method? I have other questions for you, but they are trading in general and not pertaiining to this thread so how can I ask you without clogging up this thread? Thansk.
FW
  • #1,372
  • Oct 18, 2008 10:14am Oct 18, 2008 10:14am
Oh Boxing's method is indeed worth it and profitable. It's more "graphical" than Spud's method. However, both are extremely profitable.

Quoting colombino
actualy, I'm just going to read through those thick boxingislife ideas threads.
The idea behind looks to be similar to the Spuds.
Is it worth it? Is it more profitable?:-)
  • #1,373
  • Oct 19, 2008 2:41pm Oct 19, 2008 2:41pm
Quoting jdcompute
We use the MTF Stochastic v2.0
sorry to bother you again. mtf stochastic does not show on my chart like your. please can you just make a template of you chart and attach, this will make it easier for me. THANKS
  • #1,374
  • Oct 19, 2008 4:34pm Oct 19, 2008 4:34pm
Attached File(s)
File Type: tpl 4mtfstochastic.tpl   5 KB | 606 downloads
I think this is the template originaly posted by Spud.

jdccompute: thanks for reply.
  • #1,375
  • Oct 19, 2008 4:48pm Oct 19, 2008 4:48pm
Quoting ohimae
sorry to bother you again. mtf stochastic does not show on my chart like your. please can you just make a template of you chart and attach, this will make it easier for me. THANKS

look at this too.....Spud made this thread just for this purpose. It is complete with the template, indicator and instructions on how to install.


http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=37176
  • #1,376
  • Oct 19, 2008 11:51pm Oct 19, 2008 11:51pm
Alright. I was tempted to jump in a little early thinking I knew that the 30m stoch would turn up but I waited. So when the 30m candle closed, I put in a buy order and made a quick +22 pips and got out since it's right up against a resistance line. I dunno why people spend their time saying that indicators don't work. They work for me and for countless others. To each his own is what I say. By the way, I entered at the yellow arrow. Things may continue to go up for awhile since the stochs are going into overbought but I'm not entering again for right now. If there is a continued move up, the 15m will most likely come back down for a bit leaving the other stochs overbought which will leave us an opportunity to ride a slingshot trade back up to the other stochs. But if the others start to fall closely with the 15m as it moves down, I'll just sit and get ready for a nice short down. We shall see Good trading to all..and let's get those pips in the bank this week guys!! Let's make Spud proud since he's back
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  • #1,377
  • Oct 20, 2008 12:02am Oct 20, 2008 12:02am
Good job jdcompute~
I was looking at the same entry as you, but I was scared to be patient to get enough profit. I got just 2pips and out!
But, its OK as long as I got some profit

Do you mind posting your Pivot Indicator?
It seems pretty cool.

I`m so glad Spud is back

Quoting jdcompute
Alright. I was tempted to jump in a little early thinking I knew that the 30m stoch would turn up but I waited. So when the 30m candle closed, I put in a buy order and made a quick +22 pips and got out since it's right up against a resistance line. I dunno why people spend their time saying that indicators don't work. They work for me and for countless others. To each his own is what I say. By the way, I entered at the yellow arrow. Things may continue to go up for awhile since the stochs are going into overbought but I'm not entering again for right now. If there is a continued move up, the 15m will most likely come back down for a bit leaving the other stochs overbought which will leave us an opportunity to ride a slingshot trade back up to the other stochs. But if the others start to fall closely with the 15m as it moves down, I'll just sit and get ready for a nice short down. We shall see Good trading to all..and let's get those pips in the bank this week guys!! Let's make Spud proud since he's back
  • #1,378
  • Oct 20, 2008 12:08am Oct 20, 2008 12:08am
Here you go. And I'm glad he's back as well. Hey, 2 pips is better than nothing..as long as it's not negative.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 EJ_Pivot_DWM.mq4   13 KB | 507 downloads
  • #1,379
  • Oct 20, 2008 12:13am Oct 20, 2008 12:13am
Quoting jdcompute
Here you go. And I'm glad he's back as well. Hey, 2 pips is better than nothing..as long as it's not negative.
Thanks a lot!
  • #1,380
  • Edited 8:56pm Oct 20, 2008 1:52pm | Edited 8:56pm
Here's a potential trade. It's late in the day so I'll probably only target 10 or 12 pips and then get out unless I see a move.

I didn't like the way the stochs were acting so I passed on the trade. Looking for better setups tonight.
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